Designers - do you expect to be paid if your work isn't used?

Discussion in 'Design and Graphics' started by Mildredop, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Mildredop macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    #1
    I recently had my website redesigned and the guy asked if I needed a new logo for my company as he knew a guy who could design me one for £250. I agreed.

    I gave him all sorts of examples of the sort of thing I wanted. His ideas came through and they were pretty awful - amateurish and not at all what I wanted. I gave feedback and another round of ideas came through which were even worse.

    I mentioned this to a friend (not a designer but with a bit of photoshop knowledge) who, in the space of about 15mins came up with a great logo that I decided I wanted to go with.

    I explained to my web designer that the logos his guy was doing weren't what I wanted and sent him the logo my friend did.

    His invoice has come through and still includes the £250 for the logo. I appreciate the designer did some mock-ups, but do you think I should be paying for a logo I'm not using?
     
  2. MalooNZ macrumors member

    MalooNZ

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
    Auckland NZ
    #2
    Yep, sorry but that's how it works. You briefed him, he gave you a price, you accepted, he did the work - you pay.

    Whether you choose to use his ideas or not his part is done.
     
  3. Mildredop thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    #3
    That's kind of what I thought. But I think it's quite bad that he's charging me full price when I questioned his skills. I guess I should have asked for examples of his work before agreeing.
     
  4. filmbufs macrumors 6502

    filmbufs

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    #4
    'Mockups' usually take less time to create and help springboard concepts into full ideas. If you're not satisfied with his mockups then I would be hesitant to continue forward. I'm not sure what your agreement was going in to this, but it shows how valuable communication and written agreements can be for this process.

    I would talk to him and offer to pay a little something for his time and effort it took to create the mockups. Having a friend create a logo for you sort of convolutes matters even more, as that might indicate you simply got a logo for a lower price or wanted to help your friend, or a handful of other assumptions one could make. I hope it works out for you both.
     
  5. chaosbunny macrumors 68000

    chaosbunny

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Location:
    down to earth, far away from any clouds
    #5
    Well, 250,- is dirt cheap for a logo, so an amateurish result has to be expected. But I guess that's what you wanted since something that was thrown together in 15 min seems to be enough. By the way, photoshop is not the propper application to create a logo. Seems you got what you paid for, so pay for it. After all, the guy who created the logo you don't use spent the time to do so. That you didn't take a look at his portfolio before giving him the assignment is your fault. If you get a Cheeseburger at McDonalds you have to pay it, whether you eat it or not.
     
  6. Panzerdamon macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    #6
    In the future, ask to see a portfolio or samples of work from any designer you hire. All graphic designers expect to be asked to show their work when talking to new clients, so don't be shy. It will give you an idea of what to expect.

    While it's unfortunate that you have to pay for a subpar designs that you won't use, it's the right thing to do. As @chaosbunny said, that's a low price and it probably was set there because it accurately reflects the skill of the designer.
     
  7. spacedcadet macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    #7
    Using a contract from the start protects both parties. There's usually a clause in a commissioning form that would allow you to reject if not up to scratch. eg:
    ". 4 The Company shall have the right to reject the Artwork if it does not conform to the Artwork brief or the visual or if it is not of an acceptable standard (at least of the same quality as any sample or rough artwork submitted). If the Supplier fails to complete and deliver the Artwork in an acceptable form by the agreed delivery date, the Company can immediately terminate the Agreement by written notice."

    There's usually balancing clauses to ensure the artist/designer gets paid as long as they answer the brief, so that a bad client can't just decide not to pay them. eg:


    "1. The Supplier shall provide the Artwork according to the Artwork delivery specifications set out in this Agreement."


    "5. Where the Company decides not to proceed with the commission for any reason whatsoever, provided that the Artwork complies with paragraph 1 above and is delivered to the Company, a cancellation fee will be paid as follows:


    25% of the Fee if the commission is cancelled before delivery of roughs;

    33% of the Fee if the commission is cancelled at the rough stage;

    100% of the Fee if the commission is cancelled on delivery of final artwork;

    Pro rata if the commission is cancelled at an intermediate stage."
     
  8. Panzerdamon macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    #8
    That's not a bad idea actually, bringing your own contract to a freelancer. I'm a designer and I have my own contract now, but I've never been presented with one. It would be a great way to protect yourself and encourage the designer to engage in good business practice as well.
     
  9. BobertKennedy macrumors member

    BobertKennedy

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    #9
    You're not only paying for the logo, but for the designer's time and effort, no matter the quality of the final product. Stop being a cheap bastard and pay the man.
     
  10. richwoodrocket macrumors 68020

    richwoodrocket

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, NY
    #10
    Photoshop... Should have used illustrator...
    As much as I would like to agree that you shouldn't have to pay for a logo you don't like, you did give him a task and he did fulfill what you asked for.
     
  11. MacGizmo macrumors 6502a

    MacGizmo

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Arizona
    #11
    Yes. You absolutely should have.
     
  12. Mildredop thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    #12
    Unfortunately, the designer came recommended by the web designer (whose work I had checked out thoroughly), so I made the mistake of assuming he'd only recommend someone of comparable talents. Never mind. We live and we learn.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 13, 2016 ---
    Delightful language. I had no intention of not paying, I was just interested to know if this was commonplace.
     
  13. millerj123 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    #13
    It's a suck situation, no doubt. It's hard to tell how far you should have to go to verify the work of everyone you contract with, but yes, if they did the work you should pay. Now, complaining about the quality of the work online and to whoever recommended them should also be fair. For that matter, I would consider showing them the difference in products, and see if there isn't anything they can do to rectify the situation. You can't get better if you never hear why your work is inferior.

    I've only used physical contractors based on recommendations, and in those cases, I would absolutely return any negative feedback. Happily, I had none.
     
  14. ezekielrage_99 macrumors 68040

    ezekielrage_99

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    #14
    I'm grabbing my popcorn, dis gonna be good.

    For reference
    - If you're employing anyone in a creative field, ask to see their folio.
    - Designers work on T&M, if you do/don't use the design you still need to pay unless it's written in the contract.
    - If it's really rubbish work some designer are more than happy to reduce the amount or use the hours spent as a discount for future work.
    - If a client isn't happy any decent designer will do what they can to rectify the situation.
     
  15. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #15
    If the ‎£250 was for a completed logo in Web and vector formats, no, you don't owe the person for that. It doesn't sound like that job was done. £250 for two rounds of proofs is kind of a ridiculous price. I would question the charge.

    Yes, designers should expect to be paid even if the final result isn't used. If you didn't receive final files, come to an agreement on payment for the proofs or pay nothing at all.
     
  16. sigmadog macrumors 6502a

    sigmadog

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Location:
    near Spokane, WA
    #16
    Not really. There are a lot of factors that go into determining a price (current market, experience, location, etc.).
     
  17. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #17
    For a logo? Yes, that's ridiculous where I live.
     
  18. sigmadog, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016

    sigmadog macrumors 6502a

    sigmadog

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Location:
    near Spokane, WA
    #18
    Ridiculously high or ridiculously low?

    Also, where are you (curious so I can avoid moving there to do freelance design work).
     
  19. DesignerOnMac macrumors 6502a

    DesignerOnMac

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #19
    He didn't show you his portfolio? Usually, he/she does several designs, you pick one you like the best and work with the designer until your happy!

    At least that's the way it used to work in the past. I designed mostly logo designs. A few clients didn't like a design no mater what I showed them. They never paid me, nor did I charge them either. I didn't perform to their tastes, my lose!
     
  20. ezekielrage_99 macrumors 68040

    ezekielrage_99

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    #20
    Agreed, you wouldn't get me out of bed for that...
     
  21. Mildredop thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    #21
    He did four designs that were very... Word Art. I replied saying that it wasn't quite what I was thinking and made several references back to the examples I'd emailed him. He came back with a few more designs that were worse, and it was at this point I mentioned it to my friend.

    He looked at my examples and designed a great logo. I emailed the designer and said I no longer required him to design me a logo. So he sent me an invoice. I'll pay it, but it's a great way to get no feedback and no repeat business.
     
  22. tobefirst macrumors 68040

    tobefirst

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #22
    I'm interested to see all of these logos mentioned, both the ones you didn't like and the one your friend designed that you're pleased with. Would you mind sharing?
     
  23. MacGizmo macrumors 6502a

    MacGizmo

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Arizona
    #23
    It's an unfortunate situation. One we all come across eventually, in one form or another. Consider yourself lucky that you've learned your lesson a relatively inexpensive job.

    As a side note, you should also let your friend who recommended the designer know how crappy the designer's work was so that he stops recommending him; it's making him look just as bad as the designer.
     
  24. Mildredop thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    #24
    I thought about telling the web designer (who isn't a friend), but then I figured that he's done the site, I've paid him, it's over. I'm aware that he still has access to bits of my website, google, tags and things that I don't understand and I have no idea how he'll take criticism, albeit constructive, polite and well-meaning.

    Who knows, maybe my designer is @BobertKennedy...
    --- Post Merged, Mar 15, 2016 ---
    Here's the one which made me give up. This was the second round of attempts (I've removed the identifiying part of my company name for obvious reasons).
     

    Attached Files:

  25. sigmadog macrumors 6502a

    sigmadog

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Location:
    near Spokane, WA
    #25
    Ick. On the bright side, at least he didn't use Comic Sans.
     

Share This Page