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"Desktop era over - get a laptop and an external monitor instead " - NO! Here's why:
- Thread starter Mister Bumbo
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Businesses can play with the assets and accounting books to depreciate their computers and "write them off" (like Kramer said), a personal user is a different game.
Because your streamed/downloaded movies aren't nearly close to the quality level you see on a blu ray ( or an old HDDVD player for that matter )
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Clearly you've never worked in a lot of corporate environments. Unless your doing super heavy lifting ( which I do at work every day, I create some pretty crazy simulations ).
It tends to be a mix or P4/Core/I series machines running Win XP/Vista/7, and they don't get replaced until they fail.
With a Mac you don't replace it when they fail, you replace it when they tell you to.
There's a very good reason Macs fail in enterprise on every level ( I mean jesus, they can't even reliably access most network drives under OSX). The Phones do fine, so do the iPads, but the Mac?
On an enterprise level, the Windows PC blows the mac out of the water.
Lol, I've worked in IT environments in very large corporations for a long time. Always windows based, which I largely agree on, from cost, management and other point of views as well.
But I've helped so many small business start up with macs, and many consumers switch over as well.
I dunno, it would feel extremely weird if the iMac slowly went away. Maybe with time we may even see the same thing happen with MacBook sales slow as iOS devices advance and increase in numbers.
Interesting, we have been replacing windows desktops with new iMacs and our admins find them easier to maintain and cheaper per cost metrics. They rolled out over 300 two months ago and our associates love them.
If up until now, your network has been optimized for Windows, getting Macs on to them can be a pain. A little initial investment clears it up.
Yeah, for large environments, Windows based PCs rule, they also are starting to take over well, pretty much any task that requires more than a 3 year old workstation with the video card out of a old Dell XPS ( mac pro )
Macs are great for small business's. And consumers who don't need heavy lifting.
I am totally convinced, that for serious tasks that require a decent amount of hardware power, and rockhard stability ( the Air Traffic Control System is all Windows/Nix Based running HP servers, it never fails lol ), Nix/Windows is the way to go.
I hope the iMac doesn't go away, when I decided to get another new mac, I realized.
MacBook Air: Well this is more like a tablet with a keyboard...to slow
MacBook Pro: Well... overpriced much? And my laptop is better anyway....
Mac Pro: Ahhh this! I can get....old processors and the same GPU that was really well known for being the base model card in a 900 dollar CPS from....3 years ago? Nahhh
Mac Mini: No No Apple, I want a computer. Not a toy. Oh yeah, optical drive, please! Its not dead! You just think it is Apple!
So the iMac was really my only choice. Its a nice machine, and I would hate to see it go.
However, I could never deal with it for a workplace computer, its just to slow, with to weak of an OS. ( not the user experience, the fact that OSX isnt robust enough to deal with the hardware and software I use )
Your admins are interesting, ours won't touch Macs with a 30 foot pole, I don't blame them either, at least for our environment.
Its not that Macs are bad computers, its that.
1: They are very expensive hardwarewise.
2: They can't be repaired in house, this is huge for us. Sure Apple might get your machine back to you in 3-4 days if your GPU fails. If a GPU fails in say a Dell Optiplex, it goes down to the shop. GPU gets replaced, dell pays for the new GPU which we already have in stock, and its back up at the users desk within half an hour to an hour.
A Machine needs to be able to quickly repaired in house, and parts need to be interchangeable and swappable. Macs do not offer this at all. Lets say your Dell laptops motherboard fails? Easy, swap out the hard drive into another one, and your good to go in a couple of minutes. MacBook Pro? Retina? Good luck with that, Macbook Air? Ha. Much more difficult. iMac? Nope.
Yes, things are interchangable. But its a massive pain in the ass on a Mac, and more often than not. Can't be done in house.
3: Software support is virtually non existent on OSX compared to windows.
4: Server solutions? Doesn't even exist in the Apple world ( no, a Mac mini or Mac Pro running OSX server doesn't count. Get back to me when you can jam a ton into a rack )
5: Workstations? Nope. No one is stupid enough to buy a Mac Pro right now.
6: Support from Apple. Microsoft supports machines 10+ years old with software and security updates ( yes, most large companies use machines until they just get to slow, or their hardware fails. That can take a LONG time So many places still use generic P4 and Core towers). Apple already dumped support for 10.5 awhile ago, and its what, 5 years old? Business's don't want a machine that gets bricked in 5 years.
Just my 2 cents, I love mah Macs for at home. But I don't consider them work material.
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OSX doesn't support the 256gb of ram I actually use on a daily basies to create and run some pretty crazy simulations. And it won't run on any decent hardware either.
Therefore, OSX Is not robust enough to run the software I use.
As far as being robust enough for what I do? Yes, WIndows 8 is robust enough, as is Windows 7. They support far more than a mere 96gb of ram, and they run on modern hardware.
Yes I have seen Windows 8, and I've used it. ANd I like the fact that I can have dual UIs ( Yes people, MS has not made a statement yet. But the fact is, TONS of Applications are being made with ' metro mode ' and ' desktop mode ' / versions. I have a very strange feeling that you won't end up using metro like you have to in the consumer preview )
A "mere" 96 gigs of RAM? You're absolutely right, that is a tiny amount. I can't understand how anyone could work with any less than 256Gb.
Incidentally, the reason Microsoft supports 10 year old machines, is because they made such a colossal error with Vista that it became necessary for them to do so. Customers were so reluctant to move from XP due to the potential implications for their businesses. If MS could get the entire world to upgrade every 3-4 years, don't think that they wouldn't. They're not some sort of benevolent concern.
Maybe the reason more 'PC' people are going to laptops is they don't want to or need to upgrade during the life of their computer?
The cry has always been 'You can't upgrade a Mac' well I had a G4 PowerMac and upgraded just about everything on it during it's life, CPU, RAM, HDD, added USB 2 PCI card, new video card. I even had to replace the fan in the power supply that died, $10 for a new fan v the $300 for an Apple power supply for that computer. I did it myself. I also went through 2-3 monitors start with a 17" CRT and ending with a much bigger LCD.
But even with all that the simple fact is most PC and Mac users will not upgrade their hardware over it's life. At the most they might up the RAM or replace the HDD but a lot of PC users won't even do that or even upgrade the OS.
Maybe this is one reason Apple soldered in the RAM on the new MBPr?
Personally I like the option to at least upgrade the RAM. I don't plan on buying any extra from Apple but will get some more after I get my new iMac. I will however get a bigger HDD, better Video and CPU, depending what the next iMac comes with. The only thing I don't like about any AIO computer is if one part fails you have to take it in for repairs.
The cry has always been 'You can't upgrade a Mac' well I had a G4 PowerMac and upgraded just about everything on it during it's life, CPU, RAM, HDD, added USB 2 PCI card, new video card. I even had to replace the fan in the power supply that died, $10 for a new fan v the $300 for an Apple power supply for that computer. I did it myself. I also went through 2-3 monitors start with a 17" CRT and ending with a much bigger LCD.
But even with all that the simple fact is most PC and Mac users will not upgrade their hardware over it's life. At the most they might up the RAM or replace the HDD but a lot of PC users won't even do that or even upgrade the OS.
Maybe this is one reason Apple soldered in the RAM on the new MBPr?
Personally I like the option to at least upgrade the RAM. I don't plan on buying any extra from Apple but will get some more after I get my new iMac. I will however get a bigger HDD, better Video and CPU, depending what the next iMac comes with. The only thing I don't like about any AIO computer is if one part fails you have to take it in for repairs.
I disagree. Macbook Pro's can easily replace a desktop. There are a couple exceptions though. 1. Desktop = More power for money. 2. Desktop = Better server. Other than that I would use a macbook pro instead of a desktop.(I refuse to use pc laptops though. This only applies for mac laptops. PC desktops are included in my opinion though)
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I upgraded my Power Mac G4 too! Hey PM me so we can talk about the G4. I am having a little trouble.
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I upgraded my Power Mac G4 too! Hey PM me so we can talk about the G4. I am having a little trouble.
I am willing to bet that the typical windows computer will fail more often than an apple computer. So it seems like you are fixing the wrong problem. Maybe it is me, but it seems like tech support is deliberately choosing the option which results in the most convenience and least work for them, even if it is at the expense of working efficiency for the very people the computers are supposed to benefit - the rank and file workers?
Not sure where you work... but where I work, IT Support takes possession of your laptop for the better part of a week while they work on it, and issue you a loaner.
I am willing to bet that the typical windows computer will fail more often than an apple computer. So it seems like you are fixing the wrong problem. Maybe it is me, but it seems like tech support is deliberately choosing the option which results in the most convenience and least work for them, even if it is at the expense of working efficiency for the very people the computers are supposed to benefit - the rank and file workers?
A typical windows computer and a mac are made of the same processors, video cards, fans, motherboards ( I think apple logic boards are desinged by intel ), same hard drives, screens can be the same as well.
A pc is no more likely to fail than a mac. Because other than the os, they are the same machine. Windows versions are also supported much longer than versions of osx
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Could have an understaffed department. At the company I work at, you tend to get your **** back in a few hours
What is the good reason for having a laptop if you NEVER take it away from your table? Only thing you'll do then is waste a laptop battery, pay a 1000 bucks extra minimum and the table will be cluttered with various cables for connecting extra hdds, monitor and such. I wouldnt trade my iMac for a laptop and a rMBP even if I got it for the same price or less.
There's been a lot of discussions and debates in numerous threads the last couple of weeks about the desktop computer being a dead end evolutionary and that laptops now are the way to go and the future of computers (and Apple), and frankly a laptop is so much better, not because it's a laptop per say, but as a computer overall. I'd like to point out some objective and personal points that sheds some light on why this to most of us isn't true, and have a discussion of desktops vs. laptops that takes up more than performance vs. cost.
Why an iMac would be a better choice if your intention is using a computer at a desktop:
- Bigger screen. Let's take the obvious first. An iMac has a much bigger screen, which to most people is vital for their work. And yes - you can hook up an external one, but that still leaves you with a laptop screen, that might be of little use, and you can't turn off. (Also, part of the price is for the screen)
- Screen placement(s). When faced with different sized screen it's harder to position them well if you intend to use both, but also if you intend to use only the external (think placing a Mac Mini vs. a MacBook.). And if you need more than one external monitor it becomes just silly.
- Clutter. If hooking up a laptop to a monitor, you are left with a laptop standing there also, and if you have no or little use for the screen, it could just as well be integrated behind your big monitor - oh look at that! Hello iMac!
- More clutter. It's harder to hook things up to a laptop in a neat way compared to the iMac. On a laptop it all goes on the sides, on the iMac - barely seen on the back. (Side note: this is something that Apple has focused on in the past, dating back to the white iMac design, and been proud of and used it as a selling point and still does)
- Ports. An iMac or any desktop computer for that matter come with more ports than any laptop. I realize there's enough ports for most people, but personally I always have 4+ things connected via USB, this wouldn't be possible on a laptop, especially not if the USB devices require a lot of power (not sure how this would work now with USB 3.0, but for sake of argument, let's keep this about USB 2.0). Also - ethernet ports are disappearing from laptops, and I'd like to keep my computer wired for numerous reasons.
- Keyboard. Full sized keyboards are favorable for most things, many people use a great deal more on keyboards than the part that comes with laptops. I couldn't get by without the numpad, and yes I know there's add-ons and software for the touch pad to get around that, but why do that when there's a perfect solution already - a full sized keyboard. And even if some people don't care about the size or type of keyboard, there's the placement of it.
- Peripherals placement. For extended periods of time working at a computer, the laptop will not win many prices for it's ergonomics. Most users, if using an external monitor and the laptop as a desktop substitute, will use an external keyboard, but then again.. why did I pay for an integrated keyboard if I'm not gonna use it? It's not practical to use the laptop's keyboard if you have an external monitor connected, period. The same things applies to the touchpad, external touch pads, wireless or wired mice and other doo-das.
- Paying for portability. Can't make it any clearer than that really on this point. Part of the price of a laptop is the portability, you sacrifice this portability not only for money, but also for things mentioned above, and also for performance.
- Performance and components. Desktops and laptops does not use the same components. Okay well.. the iMac uses mobile graphic cards, but we all know the reason for that, it's an all-in-one, takes less power, less heat. Graphics aside (even though the mobile ones in the iMac are still better than the ones in laptops), a desktop have better processors, desktop processors, and other components that yield more computer power, and faster computer power.
- Noise level. Power = Heat = Noise well, almost. Desktop computers have more power, which generates more heat, which should generate more noise compared to a laptop faced with the same task. Desktops, iMacs especially, have more sophisticated cooling systems for it's form factor, and will run cooler and quieter, it's not as much as a compromise as it is for laptops.
- Longevity and aimed usage. Laptops aren't work horses, neither are iMacs compared to Mac Pro's, but more so than laptops. Laptops are astonishingly well designed and have high performance today - yes, but heavy tasks will tear on a laptop more easily than on a desktop. iMacs might not be the perfect comparison on this point, but there's still a difference.
- Laptop components aren't designed to be used as desktop substitutes. The components of a laptop aren't designed nor powerful enough to be as good as a desktop when hooked up to one or more external monitors. The laptop works best when it's used as a laptop. It's best at what it's designed for.
These are some of the things I think about when reading the desktop is dead and that laptops are just as good. Some people seem to view the entire world of computers as just that computers, and that the computer started off as a huge machine that evolved into a desktop machine, and then later into a laptop. In my mind there was a crossroads long ago that separates computers into desktops and laptops, check how any store categorizes it's computers to see they think the same way. On this point I really don't think there's much room for having an opinion, it's fact that the computer comes in different shapes and configurations and that the computer is not just one thing that is evolving. I'm even surprised to see that iPads and other tablets are considered PC's, as if they could some day replace all current desktops and laptops.
Everyone does not need portability, and most of us are not ready to sacrifice money, performance, ergonomics, longevity, noise level or our carefully planned cable logistics for a computer that at the end of the day is far from the optimal solution, when there is a better one out there. Apple might put it's money on portable devices, but the desktop era will probably never end and desktops are far from dead... if anything, tablets might kill laptops.
Wow, this is the weakest rant I've ever seen. I own an 2011 iMac none of these mentioned are serious or real considerations. Some are flat pathetic or wrong.
And you deem your half setence of "none of these mentioned are serious or real considerations." a better or even a valid argument to that?
You do realize that this is a forum, for discussion? Until you learn or comprehend how to conduct a post with any actual argument or point of significance, I'd suggest you stick to a place more suited for your obvious lack of mental capacity expected around here. However, I agree, "some are flat patethic or wrong", though, "some" as in people.
Well, for some reason, I see my colleagues lugging their laptops in ever so often for one reason or another. Issues like faulty trackpad, hdd crash etc. Some have taken to using bringing their own apple laptops from home. The build quality of our windows laptops definitely seems and feels shoddier, even if they are all made from the same parts.
Your windows laptops might just be cheap crap.
If you want a pc laptop that's as well made as an apple laptop, they exist. They just cost as much as an apple laptop.
Don't get me wrong, I think an iMac is a great computer and I say to each his own. As someone who wrestled between an iMac and a Macbook/Display setup I wanted to chime in and let you guys know my thoughts.
Ultimately it came down to what best suited me personally.
Although I can sometimes work with large graphic files I realized early on that a 15" or 17" Macbook pro would have more than enough power than I would ever need. I don't really use my machine to play video games or watch movies; comfort, ease of use and portability were my priorities.
Before this setup, I had tried using a desktop for my work and an ipad for meetings but often I would find myself on the road or at a client's office needing a file or to make a change that just wasn't possible on the ipad. And even though it's a rare occurrence for me to take meetings in person just having the option to have my work computer with me at all times is great.
Having the ability to unplug a single thunderbolt cable (sometimes the power cable) and take my work out the door with me has been a lifesaver. Not to mention, I don't need to worry about power outages while I am working as I know the laptop battery will keep me running through the strongest storms.
The thunderbolt display gives me the size and connection options I would get with an imac but it also gives me the freedom to detach my computer and take it on the road with me if I need to.
I realize that the setup isn't for everyone (especially dual thunderbolt displays) but I spent a lot of time saving up and debating which option would work best for my lifestyle and I can't say enough about it's speed, flexibility and portability.
For those of you arguing about wires, I wanted to share some photos I've taken to show just how minimalistic dual monitors + a laptop can be if you don't mind spending a bit more money and consider cable management a priority like myself.
A view from up above.
Here is a more up-front look. Take note of the absence of visible wires.
You can see here how the few wires I do need tuck neatly into the display's stand and run below the desktop.
Only the thunderbolt is needed to run this setup, however sometimes the laptop needs a charge.
A large clean surface area to work on helps me concentrate.
This shows the wires from the left side
This is the USB DAC that my headphones plug into
Finally, the cable management
Wires? Not bad for dual monitors, speakers, cameras, microphones, DAC, and a small external hard drive tucked under the desk.
Ultimately it came down to what best suited me personally.
Although I can sometimes work with large graphic files I realized early on that a 15" or 17" Macbook pro would have more than enough power than I would ever need. I don't really use my machine to play video games or watch movies; comfort, ease of use and portability were my priorities.
Before this setup, I had tried using a desktop for my work and an ipad for meetings but often I would find myself on the road or at a client's office needing a file or to make a change that just wasn't possible on the ipad. And even though it's a rare occurrence for me to take meetings in person just having the option to have my work computer with me at all times is great.
Having the ability to unplug a single thunderbolt cable (sometimes the power cable) and take my work out the door with me has been a lifesaver. Not to mention, I don't need to worry about power outages while I am working as I know the laptop battery will keep me running through the strongest storms.
The thunderbolt display gives me the size and connection options I would get with an imac but it also gives me the freedom to detach my computer and take it on the road with me if I need to.
I realize that the setup isn't for everyone (especially dual thunderbolt displays) but I spent a lot of time saving up and debating which option would work best for my lifestyle and I can't say enough about it's speed, flexibility and portability.
For those of you arguing about wires, I wanted to share some photos I've taken to show just how minimalistic dual monitors + a laptop can be if you don't mind spending a bit more money and consider cable management a priority like myself.
A view from up above.
Here is a more up-front look. Take note of the absence of visible wires.
You can see here how the few wires I do need tuck neatly into the display's stand and run below the desktop.
Only the thunderbolt is needed to run this setup, however sometimes the laptop needs a charge.
A large clean surface area to work on helps me concentrate.
This shows the wires from the left side
This is the USB DAC that my headphones plug into
Finally, the cable management
Wires? Not bad for dual monitors, speakers, cameras, microphones, DAC, and a small external hard drive tucked under the desk.
