Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Details of iPhone Negotiations Between Apple and China Mobile Emerge

zombitronic said:
I don't have the pre-App Store app numbers to contradict you, but the iPhone was around a full year without the App Store. I'm not sure how many apps there were during this first year.

In comparison, in less than a year of App Store existence, there are over 15,000 Apps and more than 500 million downloads. Again, I don't have pre-App Store numbers but it seems unlikely that they were this high.

Also, I'm not sure how the App Store should be more user friendly. What's wrong with categories and searching?
Click to expand...

The problem with searching is that I just don't know what to search for anymore. Having too many apps is a double-edged sword. Sure, there is +15,000 apps, but how does this improve the average users' experience? I just use about 10 or so apps and I believe I'm already stretching the iPhone to its currently allowed functional limit; I have a GTD app, a budget app, music apps, stanza, Google, Wiki app, weather, note app, medical reference apps, file storage apps, calendar app, camera apps, etc... What else can I really put on? Fart apps? I'm not really into games on the iPhone (a really sucky gaming platform compared to the alternatives). For me, the current SDK has hit the creative ceiling.

Anyways, I really don't want to hj the thread. Back to topic... Go China, Go.
 
xxii said:
I know they have a lot of people, but forget China-- they don't deserve the iPhone until the playing field is level. Apple just needs to keep putting cool products (or videos of them) in their physical stores over there, make them drool over what they can't have. They'll just make rip-offs anyway.
Click to expand...

Besides the Apple "cool factor," China already has better phones than the iPhone. I drool over the Chinese phones I can't have. In China, Apple is likely just going to have the same problems as they are having in Japan.
 
as a chinese who live in hong kong, i'd say China doesn't deserve an iPhone, Apple pls don't work with the evil empire.

Google broke my heart when they agree to filter the internet in order to get in the China market....
 
kas23 said:
I'm not really into games on the iPhone (a really sucky gaming platform compared to the alternatives)
Click to expand...

Hmmm, the iPhone trounces the PSP in some areas. I can see it being disadvantaged due to a lack of buttons but some of the games available are fantastic and impossible to recreate on other platforms.
 
Apple is really stuck here.

To capture the huge Chinese market, Apple clearly is not in a position of strength in its negotiations. Two back downs will just further weaken the negotiation position. But further concessions to China Mobile may adversely affect all future contract negotiations around the world.

The question is, how big is the Chinese market for Apple and how desperate do they want it?
 
Apple totally should have control over the AppStore. This is akin to your ISP taking a cut for everything you purchase off Amazon.

Apple worked out the revenue sharing model based on the fact that in most countries, the mobile market is highly competitive. That's not the case in China.

Cell providers everywhere needs to understand that they are simply the provider. They don't have a right to brand handsets and sell their own apps like I care about them and are loyal to their company. I'll go with whoever is cheapest and has the strongest signal where I live. I don't want your logos all over my stuff, I don't want your customer service (because the people who made the device know much better than you do), and I don't want your apps. You are just like an ISP. I don't want browsers and computer software packages from my ISP, and I don't want bugger all from my cell provider except a cell signal. China mobile has no right to start their own application store, and I have no interest in anything they have to sell.
 
Networks facilitate commerce, but are not merchant banks

The objections from China Mobile are weak.

Objection 1. Chinese do not want to pay $600 for iPhone

Well, you have to see the irony here. The Chinese know how much (or little) the phones actually cost ... as they are produced in China.

Objection 2. China Mobile wants App Store revenue to be paid to them. Want to run App Store.

Customers pay China Mobile for network access for both voice and data and receive money for it. They do not receive revenue from transactions performed over network. Can you imagine Comcast demanding revenue sharing for all ecommerce performed when using their network? OK, fine. So, by that rationale, if a bill collector calls, I suppose the network can also share in paying the bill! OK, so revenue sharing for commerce over a network is a no-no. Networks need to learn that they are a commodity and they receive plenty revenue from bandwidth and bandwidth only!

Objection 3. Chinese customers prefer to pay with mobile credits rather than debit/credit cards

This model ALREADY exists. Ever heard of prepaid iTunes gift cards? This is the easiest obstacle to overcome. This can easily be accomplished by purchasing iTunes cards as most all grocery, drug, electronic stores. Pay the retailer with cash, activate your iTunes card for amount of credit purchased.
 
The current business model apple is using which is charging cell network company for the iphone and app store is quite normal in the industry. It is just because apple is involve the whole thing and issue get throw out if proportion. Many company such as nokia charges full price for network to buy phones why network charge your so much for non contract or tariff phones and so cheap on tariff and contract phones, They can charge you less when you are lock down since it make sure the network get back the money they lost at the phone from the services. That issue i think is solved between apple and china mobile.

The only issue is the apps store which i think china is being greedy. Since there is no music store in china and only apps store will be available. China mobile is the biggest provider of internet. App store has no threat on their internet provider since app store does not provide internet services or internet access so I call this China Mobile BS and apple knows. They(china mobile) see the app store making so many money so they don't just want part of the profit. They want all of it that's why they want to operated the store. They see the app store as a cheap way to earn profit and also it has the to do with information control on some level.
 
Saladinos said:
China mobile has no right to start their own application store, and I have no interest in anything they have to sell.
Click to expand...

You know China is run by a communist government right? They do a lot of things they have "no right" to do...most make opening their own app store a relatively minor thing. In addition to the potential revenue, I think they'd like control of their app store so they can filter and control what reaches their citizens.

And with a population of over a billion, I don't think they'll notice your refusal to buy anything from them....;)
 
kas23 said:
And you say the "nerve" of China Mobile? What about the "nerve" of Apple? They were collecting a portion of AT&Ts monthly bills! Where is the precedence for that business model?
Click to expand...

Ever heard of a company called Research in Motion? They've been doing that for years.
 
kas23 said:
And this too. I also think 30% is a bit steep for Apple's cut (but not necessarily highway robbery). Apple really doesn't do anything. Apple doesn't help market the apps in any way, nor do they organize them in a user-friendly way. Why should they get a whole third of the money developers make? And don't say; "without the app store there wouldn't be any apps." Before the App Store, apps were thriving. They were doing so well Apple decided they wanted a piece of the pie.

This may be sacrilegious around these parts, while it may help the average person, the App Store offers me no advantage. I would rather just have the apps posted on a website, like appshopper.com. Now, I never go onto the App Store to look for Apps. It's impossible. I just go there to purchase them.
Click to expand...

Doesn't do anything? So, hosting, credit card processing, building and maintaining the database, coming up with the "mobile app store" concept and getting the carriers to agree to distribute the data is "not doing anything"?

The app store is a freaking great deal for both apple and developers. Cell phone development has been going on for years, but very few people used mobile stores. Sales were poor on old phone platforms, so developers didn't spend much to develop or promote apps. Palm's plan was a freaking mess, and many, many buggy apps existed that made the device very unstable. WM was the same way... some great apps, but there were many crummy ones, and actually getting them onto the device was well above the heads of many end-users. The iPhone app store is braindead easy to use, no downloads and complex transfers, no buggy device settings.

Your comments about the development community prior to the app store have some merit, but not everyone is a geek... most people would have never, ever jailbroken their phone, nor go seek apps on the internet unless it was convenient like iTunes and the app store make it.

99% of the world's cell users aren't as sophisticated as you when it comes to the device, software, etc... you can't pretend like they are.
 
not to mention that the OS (operating system) and UI (user interface) on the iPhone are totally unlike any other, especially in china, and apple had to release their own SDK (software development kit) before anybody even knew what was going on, app wise.

as far as I'm concerned, the app store is apple's own little microsoft LIVE. an entirely online, entirely iPhone (or its mac os X derivative), entirely apple economy. they should do with it as they f***ing please. in terms of digital rights it belongs to apple and it's constituent developers ONLY.

i think china-mobile is just strong-arming apple cause american money isn't worth as much any more, probably due to those chinese investors who sabotaged wall street, causing billions to just disappear...

Apple, you're doing just fine bankin' off of your next-generation ideas in other countries. Making the top 5 list of growing companies is a good reason to chill the f*** out for a while. Don't let china-mobile make you feel like you desperately need to make this sale. You don't, and neither do any of your American (or world-wide) employees or stockholders. Just keep on stackin papah! You'll need it!
 
kas23 said:
The problem with searching is that I just don't know what to search for anymore. Having too many apps is a double-edged sword. Sure, there is +15,000 apps, but how does this improve the average users' experience? I just use about 10 or so apps and I believe I'm already stretching the iPhone to its currently allowed functional limit; I have a GTD app, a budget app, music apps, stanza, Google, Wiki app, weather, note app, medical reference apps, file storage apps, calendar app, camera apps, etc... What else can I really put on? Fart apps? I'm not really into games on the iPhone (a really sucky gaming platform compared to the alternatives). For me, the current SDK has hit the creative ceiling.
Click to expand...

What a small minded perspective.

Would it surprise you to hear that of the 30 or so Apps on my iPhone, the only ones I share in common with you are Google, weather, and a camera app?

Do you see the point? You found 10 apps that you like out of 15000. I found 30 totally different ones. And someone else probably found 30 totally different from mine. It's not about getting YOU 100 apps, it's about having 10-20 that are great for everyone, no matter what that person needs.
 
kas23 said:
I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused. Who said the "App store" is highway robbery? I'm talking about Apple's policy of collecting a portion of the subscriber's monthly bill.
Click to expand...

That's Apples payment for letting AT&T be the sole provider.
 
MacRumors said:
Interfax reports on details of the lengthy negotiations between Apple and China Mobile over bringing the iPhone to China. According to their source, China Mobile president Wang Jianzhou revealed in a recent visit to the China Mobile Research Institute that talks between the two companies have broken down three times over the past year and a half.
Click to expand...

given that china mobile just received license to build 3g network using chinas own td-scdma "standard", it's not the most likely partner for apple anyway.

china unicom with its wcdma license is much more likely candidate for iphone carrier in china.
 
All I have to say in this thread is that the North American model of selling phones is outdated. The Chinese people know how much phones cost alone and they have buying them separate from plans for years. I think Apple might want to have a slice of pie in their 600 million customers market.

BTW, the government in China maybe officially communist, but its now a totalitarian government.
 
yeah dude, plus the concept of patent-infringement holds no sway in a totalitarian environment. heuristic devices for everybody! for free!!
 
abrooks said:
Hmmm, the iPhone trounces the PSP in some areas. I can see it being disadvantaged due to a lack of buttons but some of the games available are fantastic and impossible to recreate on other platforms.
Click to expand...

I love gaming on my iPhone, but I do not take the iPhone/iPod Touch seriously for gaming. So, I'd like to know where you find "iPhone trounces the PSP in some areas." Besides digital downloads/app store or an avenue for independent game designers, what are your examples?

People always use the example: "iPhone/iPod Touch is the Wii for handheld gaming!"

Sorry, I highly disagree, the DS is the "Wii for handheld gaming." iPhone/iPod Touch have a *very* long way to go to be taken seriously in the gaming arena.

w00master
 
China has a lot of power, thank you shoppers at Walmart, off-shoring and the death of American's manufacturing sector. They're not the west and their idea of "free trade" is basically what's going to lead to the US's collapse, faster than it already is. Apple you'd think would have realized going in how futile this was for basically a third-world country that's trying to smoke-and-mirrors that it's not, which is under totalitarian Communist control, then again, maybe dumb 'Murican consumers who you'd think would realize 70% or more of the profits go back into China's huge communist military wouldn't be so stupid to shop there, but they do, I just never thought of Jobs as dumb as 'Murican consumers.
 
China isn't budging, and neither should Apple.

I know China's a big market and all, but overall, in almost every market, their trade agreements are across the board highly tilted towards Chinese companies. That needs to start getting more leveled out, and Apple is in a position to wait them out a while.
 
SoGood said:
Apple is really stuck here.

To capture the huge Chinese market, Apple clearly is not in a position of strength in its negotiations. Two back downs will just further weaken the negotiation position. But further concessions to China Mobile may adversely affect all future contract negotiations around the world.

The question is, how big is the Chinese market for Apple and how desperate do they want it?
Click to expand...

If they were desperate they would have backed down in the negotiations.

As it is Apple is doing very well without China Mobile and that isnt going to suddenly change. Sure, they have x00 million subscribers but, as Apple has shown in every other market they have entered, Apple doesnt care to take the majority of the market. If they can skim off the most profitable 5-10% of consumers they will be happy.

Expect Apple to keep doing the same thing they have been in China. Opening a few boutique stores so that people in urban areas who can afford their products can buy them and selling iPhones unlocked to anyone who wants one there. They keep all the profit, all the control and dont have to bow to a carrier that has a vastly overstated sense of their own importance.
 
tlng13 said:
as a chinese who live in hong kong, i'd say China doesn't deserve an iPhone, Apple pls don't work with the evil empire.

Google broke my heart when they agree to filter the internet in order to get in the China market....
Click to expand...

Hey
same here (Chinese in HK). Same thoughts LOL.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back