Deutsche Telekom Sold 70,000 iPhones in 11 Weeks

[sjo]

Hey, hope someone can clarify something for me. is the 10 million iphone goal from june 07 - dec 08 or is it from jan 08 - dec 08.

thanks

Zack

it is 10 million jan08-dec08. Apple's CFO Peter Oppenheimer:

Finally, we reiterate our goal of selling 10 million iPhones in calendar 2008.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/42374-apple-f3q07-qtr-end-6-30-07-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

later in the interview he also states that it's about 1% market share they're aiming for, so that would mean 12-13m 2008.

 

[jfanning]

The iphone's European launch has pretty much conclusively shot down all the illusions about simlocking laws in Europe.

Belgium is the only country in Europe that doesn't allow simlocking.

Depends on what you define as Europe, Finland doesn't allow it on 2G phones either

 

[ruutiveijari]

Despite this, the head of T-Mobile Germany states that "the iPhone is by far the most sold multimedia device in T-Mobile's portfolio."

Well of course since they're the only ones selling it. So everyone who wants one has to buy it from them. Unlike Nokia's or Samsung's etc that you can buy from any store.

This is also interesting:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,141818-c,iphone/article.html

 

[Matti]

Depends on what you define as Europe, Finland doesn't allow it on 2G phones either

3G simlocking might soon end as well. At the end on next month goverment will start revaluating, if the temporary law allowing 3G phones to be simlocked will be continued or not.

 

[Dembo]

I think all the complaining about a lack of features (specifically 3G) or the price of the iPhone is a red herring – I bought a Samsung i600 (Blackjack w WiFi) instead. Yes it has HSDPA, yes I can install all sort of things. But every, and I mean literally every single feature works somewhere between 0% and 85%. I clearly prefer a subset of features working 100%, thank you.

Apparently the iPhone is selling allright-ish in UK and in France, so why is it a bomb in Germany? Very, very simple:

EUR 50,-/month (USD 74,-) will get you 100min talk time and 40 texts (on top of the data plan of course). Oh, and it’s for 24 months (not 18, as in the UK).

No matter what T-Mobile might be claiming with regards to a lack of features: The plan simply is not competitive. For all the people who think the quality of the T-Mobiles EDGE coverage or the free hotspots are justifying these prices: Well, seems that the market thinks they are not.

At least T-Mobile started working on the plans by tossing in free weekend calls but the damage has been done.

I just hope that this is good news for the coming iPhone countries: I hope the carriers watching closely and that T-Mobile Germany remains the only carrier stepping over the line.

 

[123]

that will decide whether Belgium's anti-bundling law violates EU consumer protection laws.

You mean greedy bastards protection laws.

 

[OllyW]

it is 10 million jan08-dec08. Apple's CFO Peter Oppenheimer:



http://seekingalpha.com/article/42374-apple-f3q07-qtr-end-6-30-07-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

later in the interview he also states that it's about 1% market share they're aiming for, so that would mean 12-13m 2008.

Definitely 10 million in 2008.

 

[swagi]

I think all the complaining about a lack of features (specifically 3G) or the price of the iPhone is a red herring – I bought a Samsung i600 (Blackjack w WiFi) instead. Yes it has HSDPA, yes I can install all sort of things. But every, and I mean literally every single feature works somewhere between 0% and 85%. I clearly prefer a subset of features working 100%, thank you.

Apparently the iPhone is selling allright-ish in UK and in France, so why is it a bomb in Germany? Very, very simple:

EUR 50,-/month (USD 74,-) will get you 100min talk time and 40 texts (on top of the data plan of course). Oh, and it’s for 24 months (not 18, as in the UK).

No matter what T-Mobile might be claiming with regards to a lack of features: The plan simply is not competitive. For all the people who think the quality of the T-Mobiles EDGE coverage or the free hotspots are justifying these prices: Well, seems that the market thinks they are not.

At least T-Mobile started working on the plans by tossing in free weekend calls but the damage has been done.

I just hope that this is good news for the coming iPhone countries: I hope the carriers watching closely and that T-Mobile Germany remains the only carrier stepping over the line.

If they only lowered the price or the rates, I'd instantly get one.

Basically I'm one of the few people actually using a lot of internet on the mobile phone. Other fact is, that I'm in the boat to not consider a Nokia phone again (due to their shutdown of the Bochum plant, you maybe heard about it).

So, I'm in the market for an iPhone this summer, and I sure hope, that they have upgraded the iPhone to at least 32 GB (and hopefully 3G).

 

[sjo]

Definitely 10 million in 2008.

thank you for posting the pic. altough 1% market share in 2008 is not 10m

i think everybody is aware by now that apple's estimations are conservative. in fact apple's guidance has been up to 80% lower than what has realized. taking that into consideration, the probable "real" target is around 1.5% market share, or 18-19m units.

 

[csimmons]

I've been Pro Apple since middle school but I'm sorry, Apple has failed time after time oversees. To be fair I think that Apple 'gets' that what works in the US doesn't mean it works oversees.

1. 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe
2. The iPod is the top selling MP3 player in Europe; iTunes is the #1 music portal in every country it's available
3. Apple has always had a strong presence in the education market in Europe
4. It's Mac retail sales are INCREASING.

Where has Apple "failed time after time"?

 

[MrCrowbar]

Give me an iPod touch, put a GSM module, and a SIM card holder in there and make me pay for the software upgrades. Or give me an add-on for the iPod touch that incorporates those things. The dock connector has that hook system so you could attach it pretty safely.

Why is the iPhone so expensive if the iPod touch has the same guts (to be verified) except the GSM module, bluetooth and antenna?

 

[Dembo]

If they only lowered the price or the rates, I'd instantly get one.

This is exactly what everyone tells me when I show them an iPhone (not mine unfortunately...) - so simple, everyone knows it but T-Mobile gives a **** (why should they?). I wonder whether in all the iPhone related contracts Apple has to agree to the plans (to ensure that the thing is acctually sold) or whether they do not care.

I am using around 100 - 150MB per months mobile data transfer on a Windows Mobile 6 device (Samsung i600). It is okay-ish compared to most other phones but the iPhone blows it out of the waters. However, my plan costs me about EUR 20/month and that includes HSDPA, not EDGE. So savings over the 24 months are EUR 720 (apporx. USD 1050,-).

I wonder how people can even consider buying a T-Mobile iPhone in Germany when they run the numbers...

 

[samab]

3G simlocking might soon end as well. At the end on next month goverment will start revaluating, if the temporary law allowing 3G phones to be simlocked will be continued or not.

Finland won't do anything before the Belgium cases are heard in the European Court of Justice.

Also Nokia has been looking at the iphone business model --- and they want to copy that. Finland will bend on Nokia's demand.

 

[dasein]

Absolutely.

For me the price of data roaming is just eye-wateringly awful: £7.50/€10/$14 per megabyte.

It's one thing for Apple to make money. This is greed.

They're all that way, but how much of that actually goes to Apple? The carriers (and government by way of regulation and auction) are responsible mostly. Greed by proxy is still sticking it to everyone. Those billions the government got in the auction phases are part of the balance due sheet for us end users.

 

[samab]

Those billions the government got in the auction phases are part of the balance due sheet for us end users.

The 3g auctions had nothing to do with cell phone service prices.

The French government charged less than 500 million euro for each 3G license (and there were 3 licenses so that's only 1.5 billion euro). That's nothing compared to UK's 22.5 billion pound 3G auction.

You don't see the French iphone prices much cheaper than UK --- both in terms of hardware and monthly plans.

 

[aswitcher]

Pricing and lack of 3G...

 

[dasein]

The 3g auctions had nothing to do with cell phone service prices.

The French government charged less than 500 million euro for each 3G license (and there were 3 licenses so that's only 1.5 billion euro). That's nothing compared to UK's 22.5 billion pound 3G auction.

You don't see the French iphone prices much cheaper than UK --- both in terms of hardware and monthly plans.

But why charge anything? That's mobster mentality. Who are they helping here? Just because they can fleece the market for 1.5 billion euro isn't a just reason. BTW, 1.5 billion euro isn't chump change. I disagree...someone has to pay it, that someone is the end user, so the 3g auctions however tame by comparison do affect cell phone service prices. The default on governments' part shouldn't be to charge and figure out why later. Does it really cost the French government that much to oversee the airways? When you auction something off, you're going for the highest profit. Governments (our governments) shouldn't be in the profit business...that's all I'm saying.

 

[samab]

Brits paid the same amount of money on the iphone hardware and iphone monthly plan as the French --- then it has nothing to do with the 3G auction.

The US government pioneered on spectrum auctioning --- yet Americans paid the cheapest price for the iphone and their iphone plan is cheaper than Europeans because they have unlimited nights and weekends and rollover of daytime minutes.

Airwaves is a public property --- don't you want the government to have that extra 30 billion dollars to pay for better schools and health care.

 

[swagi]

But why charge anything? That's mobster mentality. Who are they helping here? Just because they can fleece the market for 1.5 billion euro isn't a just reason. BTW, 1.5 billion euro isn't chump change. I disagree...someone has to pay it, that someone is the end user, so the 3g auctions however tame by comparison do affect cell phone service prices. The default on governments' part shouldn't be to charge and figure out why later. Does it really cost the French government that much to oversee the airways? When you auction something off, you're going for the highest profit. Governments (our governments) shouldn't be in the profit business...that's all I'm saying.

You know...that's why it was an auction! Government didn't say anything about the price, it was the companies, who did this absurd bidding.

In Germany I remember there were 12 UMTS slots, that were auctioned. Don't nail me down on numbers, but we had a point at a combined sum of I think 25 billion Euros, where six providers aquired two slots. But both T-mobile and Vodafone wanted more, so they bid more. Basically in the end we had a combined sum of 50 billion Euros with the same end result.

It's the bidders, who are to blame. Basically you do the same as blaming the seller of the famous 'Maria toast' for taking that insane amount of money. But only the highest bids count, that's what an auction is about.

And basically you can choose, if you take a provider that charges you much money. That's why the iPhone doesn't sell like it could.

 

[dasein]

It's the bidders, who are to blame. Basically you do the same as blaming the seller of the famous 'Maria toast' for taking that insane amount of money. But only the highest bids count, that's what an auction is about.

And basically you can choose, if you take a provider that charges you much money. That's why the iPhone doesn't sell like it could.

It's disturbingly cozy though. What else could you do if you were in the business but bid? The issue is who got the money...not you or me, or even the bidders. This has nothing to do with American, European, health care, education or anything else. Who invented wireless, built the systems, the phones, the towers, and lined up investors? Not any government. So why should a government rake in anything from it just because it can? Private auctions are fine because it's someone else's money. This is a public auction that passed the buyers' final bids onto you and me....nice work if you can get it. BTW, I'm not defending Apple's pricing scheme, but one rip-off doesn't justify another. Saying something is "public property" doesn't mean it's open season on charging for it without justification. Reasonable expenses, yes. This was a pig with lipstick.

 

[weckart]

The 3g auctions had nothing to do with cell phone service prices.

The French government charged less than 500 million euro for each 3G license (and there were 3 licenses so that's only 1.5 billion euro). That's nothing compared to UK's 22.5 billion pound 3G auction.

You don't see the French iphone prices much cheaper than UK --- both in terms of hardware and monthly plans.

Why on earth would you expect to see phones and plans cheaper in France than elsewhere?
That is not how businesses work.

Who were the bidders? The same handful who bid in all of the European auctions. Just because they got off relatively lightly in France, they still got mightily stung in Germany and the UK. These are multinationals and overall acquiring 3G licences for their European markets cost them plenty. They will have to recoup this outlay as best they can and that means charging as much as possible across their European markets. They would be hauled over the coals if they charged half as much in France as they did in the UK, just because the auctions went their way there, relatively speaking.

 

[samab]

Who were the bidders? The same handful who bid in all of the European auctions. Just because they got off relatively lightly in France, they still got mightily stung in Germany and the UK. These are multinationals and overall acquiring 3G licences for their European markets cost them plenty. They will have to recoup this outlay as best they can and that means charging as much as possible across their European markets. They would be hauled over the coals if they charged half as much in France as they did in the UK, just because the auctions went their way there, relatively speaking.

I agree with you --- whether it's tragedy of the commons or prisoner's dilemma.

The multinational carriers decided to overpay in a few countries like UK and Germany --- precisely because other countries were stupid enough to either give the license basically for free (i.e. Sweden) or very low price (i.e. France).

At the very least, the UK government got $30 billion to pay for school and health. The French government got next to nothing and the French consumers are overpaying their monthly mobile tarriffs.

The Swedish government is stupid no more. They had a disasterous 3G beauty contest --- carriers got their spectrum for something like $100,000 and then dragged their feet on deployment. For the past 2 years, the Swedish government is doing everything by auction.

 

[samab]

This is a public auction that passed the buyers' final bids onto you and me....

Actually the carriers don't pass the cost of the license directly to the consumers.

Many economists have been studying the 1999 3G auctions for the last decade. The 3G license is considered to be "sunk cost" and does not in any way affect the long term pricing of the cell phone service.

www.nuff.ox.ac.uk/users/klemperer/biggestsept.pdf

Do you notice that the phrase "beauty contest" ceased to exist on all European discussions about spectrum management anymore?

 

[jfanning]

1. 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe
2. The iPod is the top selling MP3 player in Europe; iTunes is the #1 music portal in every country it's available
3. Apple has always had a strong presence in the education market in Europe
4. It's Mac retail sales are INCREASING.

Where has Apple "failed time after time"?

I cannot order from the UK Apple store and get it deliveried to Ireland, that is a big failing

 

[boss1]

1. 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe

To be fair , if your 44% is fact then point taken. Perhaps my choice of words "fail" may have been overzealous. They certainly could make a better effort in terms of marketing and my comments weren't restricted toward Apple Europe.

The rest of your points are worst then my choice of the word "fail" .

2. The iPod is the top selling MP3 player in Europe; iTunes is the #1 music portal in every country it's available

Your making a case for iTunes? iTunes global popularity is common knowledge. The focus topic is why iPhones aren't selling well and using iTunes popularity doesn't correlate. Unless of course your simply saying Apple doesn't fail time and time again oversees because iTunes does well.

In which case my response is MS Windows is the most used OS in Europe also but I'm certainly not going to use that to argue the Zune is doing great

3. Apple has always had a strong presence in the education market in Europe
4. It's Mac retail sales are INCREASING.

not good enough. According to many, especially round here , Mac sales have been increasing for as long as I can remember. At this rate Apple computers will be a 35% of the global market share by the time Britney's great grand kids qualify for senior citizens discounts.

I'm really not trying to knock the company, more so than I'm not astonished by the overall progress it's made over 2 decades. Especially when you see clear areas to improve in.

I'm by no means saying I'm smarter than Apple or any executive that commands it's direction. It's just frustrating to see it not reach it's potential due to a stubborn nature.