Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Here's the cost of UCSD now. For residents who live at home its cheaper. This is just one college, every college has it's own rates for tuition.

http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/financial-aid/budgeting/undergrad-20112012.html

Personally I feel a college degree is overrated, however it's a requirement for many fields. It's a means to employment. In many cases I've met many skilled people I'd rather hire then someone who went to college just to get ahead in the workplace.

Steve Jobs dropped out of college look at how well he did :D
http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/j.htm
 
Here's the cost of UCSD now. For residents who live at home its cheaper. This is just one college, every college has it's own rates for tuition.

http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/financial-aid/budgeting/undergrad-20112012.html

Personally I feel a college degree is overrated, however it's a requirement for many fields. It's a means to employment. In many cases I've met many skilled people I'd rather hire then someone who went to college just to get ahead in the workplace.

For someone who thinks education is merely leverage to get more $$ (which is ignorant IMHO), the cost-benefit analysis clearly eliminates DeVry as a good choice. Apparently the online-only total program costs can range from $35k-$85k. This is absolutely ridiculous. Estimated fees for UCSD for classes and supplies only (since this is what the online only DeVry "degree" is counting) for 4 years is about $58k total. If you go to something like a California State University it is about $33k total.


Steve Jobs dropped out of college look at how well he did :D
http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/j.htm

This is just a straight up logical fallacy.
 
Several months before I graduated from ITT they started getting me interviews with different companies. I had four interviews from four different employers. I got a better job myself so I opted to decline the jobs.

What degree did you get from ITT?

I graduated from ITT and I have a college degree. My credits are transferable to any College in the United States. I know this because The University I am now attending accepted them.

What degree are you now pursuing and what school are you attending?

I didn't go to De Vry so I wouldn't know their policies. I do know that after doing some research to save for my child's College education the rough estimate for a Bachelors degree at a four year university starts at around $35,000.00 minimum a year. That does not include housing, books food, etc. Multiply that by four years and that comes out to be about $140,000.00.

ITT cost me less then half of that FYI. Also regardless of where you go once you take out a school loan you will pay it back plus interest regardless of whether you graduate or not.

$35K a year is way too high. To hit that, you either have to be going to a private university or out of state. I'm a CA resident. If I want to go to a UC, annual tuition is $12-13k. If I want to go to a Cal State, annual tuition is half of that. Now how much is ITT's annual tuition?
 
Here's the cost of UCSD now. For residents who live at home its cheaper. This is just one college, every college has it's own rates for tuition.

http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/financial-aid/budgeting/undergrad-20112012.html

Personally I feel a college degree is overrated, however it's a requirement for many fields. It's a means to employment. In many cases I've met many skilled people I'd rather hire then someone who went to college just to get ahead in the workplace.

Steve Jobs dropped out of college look at how well he did :D
http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/j.htm

Comparing UCSD to ITT is ridiculous. According to wikipedia, UCSD is ranked 8th in the U.S. for public universities, and last time I checked (2-3 years ago) it was something like 13th in the nation overall. It's a fantastic school, and in no way is the sort of education you get there "equal" to what you get from a for-profit glorified cc. And even though the programs in certain fields are stronger than others, the academic environment you're in, and the rigor required to get a degree (gen eds, etc.) leaves you with much more than just a piece of paper, provided you're willing to work for it.

I doubt I'll convince you since you seemingly don't believe in higher education, but provided you approach it with the right attitude and pick your school wisely, a college degree absolutely can have a huge impact on you, beyond just being a "means to employment," to use your term...
 
I didn’t say an education isn’t important. I also didn’t say I don’t believe in it. I have worked with high school graduates that have shown excellence and do amazing work. They also displayed great intelligence and skill at some of the places I’ve worked at over the years. I’ve seen them to be as smart and sometimes smarter then some college graduates. Really they just lack a degree.

I’ve seen college graduates who regardless of what classes they took didn’t seem to retain much of that knowledge, nor really care. They can tell you about how they miss those days partying at college and how they took 3- 4 classes per semester, how easy it was, how boring the general education classes were, how anybody can do it etc... They got a piece of paper to secure a position that pays higher then someone without.

I have also seen the opposite of the above examples, I have seen hard working people who busted their butts to get a degree, and overcame tough situations to graduate and make a better life for themselves. You can be a slacker with or without a college degree. However this leads me to this point. There is a misconception in this country that going to college makes you a better person. This is not true, a college degree makes you more marketable in a system that values a college education.

As for other questions about myself. I have an Associates in Computer Science. I'm attending UCLA in the healthcare field right now.
 
Last edited:
AS in Computer Networking, I'm going to UCLA in the healthcare field. Why do you ask?

Was thinking maybe you knew something I didn't.

Now I'm wondering why you were comparing the cost of an AS to a BS in the first place. And why you paid ITT a ton of money for a degree you could've gotten from a community college.
 
I went to DeVry in 1989. I STILL owe the student loan from that 'school' and haven't worked more than 3 months in the last 2 years. They are/were a waste of time AND money.
 
Was thinking maybe you knew something I didn't.

Now I'm wondering why you were comparing the cost of an AS to a BS in the first place. And why you paid ITT a ton of money for a degree you could've gotten from a community college.

I was comparing tuition as if I had gotten a BS, not a AS. At that time if I had opted to continue on to a BS from my AS I was also told that I could get a discount and save a few bucks so it would have been less in the long run.

When I sat down with the school recruiter back then, I was told this is the price of the AS program, this is the price of the BS in the field you want. I looked at the prices, the AS was 1/2 the cost of the BS. Besides some of the stuff that I didn't like about their policies, tuition games they tried to play with me and lost, I still thought that overall it wasn't a bad place. The tuition I paid was reasonable for an AS degree. I know I could have saved a few bucks if I went to the local community college. If you want numbers I paid about $15k a year give or take $1k when was all said and done.

Since you asked where did you get your degree, and in what?
 
Last edited:
Since you asked where did you get your degree, and in what?

BS EET from Devry in 2003. Cost me $50K for 3 years.

Went to CSUN in 06 for a MS Electrical Engineering. Had to take 9 additional classes to qualify for graduate studies because my Devry BS wasn't considered technical enough.

Because of my MS and other things I did when I was at CSUN (graduate research, published a paper, passed the EIT), I now have a six figure engineering job but Devry was a waste of time and money and I spent most of my 20's stressed out and poor because of it.

I'm probably one of the exceptions when it comes to Devry grads, who usually get stuck doing low level work for the rest of their life. Still I feel justified in telling anyone who asks me that the school sucks and they should just go to a 4 year.
 
If the question is if it's better to graduate from an expensive (but still regionally accredited) school with a degree vs. not having a degree in the long run, then I say yes, it's probably worth it. First you have to ask if what you want to do requires a college degree or if it's something that does not yet can still make good money such as a real estate agent, car mechanic, or entrepreneur.

But with so many community colleges out there and state funded accredited four year public institutions, you can get the same degree for a lot less. Your employer won't care if you went to an "XYZ" accredited state college vs. an "XYZ" accredited private college. The name of the institution is really only worth the extra money in a private school when you are talking about a Harvard, Yale, Columbia, USC or Stanford or similar expensive private college. That being said, it doesn't mean a relatively unknown private school is a bad thing, but that there are still a lot of better deals out there.
 
If the question is if it's better to graduate from an expensive (but still regionally accredited) school with a degree vs. not having a degree in the long run, then I say yes, it's probably worth it. First you have to ask if what you want to do requires a college degree or if it's something that does not yet can still make good money such as a real estate agent, car mechanic, or entrepreneur.

But with so many community colleges out there and state funded accredited four year public institutions, you can get the same degree for a lot less. Your employer won't care if you went to an "XYZ" accredited state college vs. an "XYZ" accredited private college. The name of the institution is really only worth the extra money in a private school when you are talking about a Harvard, Yale, Columbia, USC or Stanford or similar expensive private college. That being said, it doesn't mean a relatively unknown private school is a bad thing, but that there are still a lot of better deals out there.

We arent talking public vs private. We are talking for-profit vs not-for-profit.
 
BS EET from Devry in 2003. Cost me $50K for 3 years.

Went to CSUN in 06 for a MS Electrical Engineering. Had to take 9 additional classes to qualify for graduate studies because my Devry BS wasn't considered technical enough.

Because of my MS and other things I did when I was at CSUN (graduate research, published a paper, passed the EIT), I now have a six figure engineering job but Devry was a waste of time and money and I spent most of my 20's stressed out and poor because of it.

I'm probably one of the exceptions when it comes to Devry grads, who usually get stuck doing low level work for the rest of their life. Still I feel justified in telling anyone who asks me that the school sucks and they should just go to a 4 year.


As a former HR person, we had to look at one thing first which is experience. Experience is king much the way cash is king to a business. While it may favor older people and not be so friendly to some 20-somethings just getting started out, well then welcome to the real world of paying your dues. It sucks but in some ways I wouldn't trade those first few years for anything.

Experience on a resume was the first barrier and after that we can talk about education. When we saw education, we broke it up into HS grad, junior college grad, college grad, grad school, and certifications/licenses. Once we saw those, then and only then could we weigh a state funded school against someone like a DeVry or University of Phoenix. If we are talking a middle ranked California State University vs. a Devry, then it's about the same. But if the publicly funded school is a UCLA or Cal Berkeley, then those schools take a front seat.

It's a good thing you got your M.S. degree, but not so much because your bachelor's was DeVry, but more because your graduate education places you in a different category than most people with a bachelor's. However, if you went against an applicant with just a bachelor's degree, but from a very small list like a Cal Tech or MIT, then that other person would likely be seen as the better candidate, with all experience having been about equal between you and that person.

As to whether a person moves up, then the college degree means less and less as time goes by. Once you get your first job after college, you have to prove yourself if it is to look good on a resume. Not only do you have to hit the ground running, but it helps to move up the field as the years go by as well as have a good position currently.

----------

We arent talking public vs private. We are talking for-profit vs not-for-profit.

With that comparison, I tend toward the not-for-profit. It appears from those who went to for profit schools that the bottom line dictated the entire experience. At the end of the day, many years later when I and most of my peers have finished paying for school and may be retired, then what we remember that many years down the line is just that we finished that degree or degrees.

When we first graduated, the ones who were most in debt bitched about the loans they had (and especially those with an MD or DDS but still without a lot of patients), but as time went on and they were likely in a job that paid more than just a high school diploma, the talk was more about the company they got into, or how well they built a business/firm, or even the field. I can see where school or school reputation makes a big deal in your teens and twenties, but still talking about a school reputation at 35 or older sounds really fishy.

The older people I have met who are so into their school reputation are always the ones who never did anything with their education anyway. It's the successful high school graduate who is a millionaire or the very successful engineer who may have just gone to an unknown state college but is now a high earning senior manager who really have any bragging rights, but usually they are too busy making money along with those who went to a Harvard or Yale. And if you are a very senior manager competing for a CEO spot or a successful entrepreneur, the last thing you are going to worry about is where your competition went to school and on any terminal level of success it's what you have done over many years vs. what they have done.
 
Last edited:
As a former HR person, we had to look at one thing first which is experience. Experience is king much the way cash is king to a business. While it may favor older people and not be so friendly to some 20-somethings just getting started out, well then welcome to the real world of paying your dues. It sucks but in some ways I wouldn't trade those first few years for anything.

Very true yet at the same time, my mom has 30 years of nursing experience and a 2 year nursing degree yet a new nurse with a 4 year degree and 0 experience has more doors open to her from the get go.
Experience on a resume was the first barrier and after that we can talk about education. When we saw education, we broke it up into HS grad, junior college grad, grad school and certifications. Once we saw those, then and only then could we weigh a state funded school against someone like a DeVry or University of Phoenix. If we are talking a middle ranked California State University vs. a Devry, then it's about the same. But if the publicly funded school is a UCLA or Cal Berkeley, then those schools take a front seat.

I don't see how you could say DeVry is on equal footing as a state university to be honest.
It's a good thing you got your M.S. degree, but not so much because your bachelor's was DeVry, but more because your graduate education places you in a different category than most people with a bachelor's. However, if you went against an applicant with just a bachelor's degree, but from a very small list like a Cal Tech or MIT, then that other person would likely be seen as the better candidate, with all experience having been about equal between you and that person.
Wait, are you saying that a kid with a BS from MIT is equal someone who has a masters in the same discipline such as engineering but from State U? I disagree with that. Grad school is an entirely different beast than undergrad and in no way should the applicants be seen as equally qualified.

For the most part, any nationally accredited school will have the same basic say engineering coursework and topics. Thermodynamics at MIT is no different than Thermodynamics at CU. Grad school is where the differences shine.

As to whether a person moves up, then the college degree means less and less as time goes by. Once you get your first job after college, you have to prove yourself if it is to look good on a resume. Not only do you have to hit the ground running, but it helps to move up the field as the years go by as well as have a good position currently.


I agree with that. A degree merely gets you in the door. Once you have a job, your results take precedent over what you did in college.
 
Very true yet at the same time, my mom has 30 years of nursing experience and a 2 year nursing degree yet a new nurse with a 4 year degree and 0 experience has more doors open to her from the get go.

(OK, Dukebound and give me a heads up because I sure hope not to go to this hospital!) :)


I don't see how you could say DeVry is on equal footing as a state university to be honest.

I wouldn't say a Cal State Dominguez Hills would sound all that much better, would you?

Wait, are you saying that a kid with a BS from MIT is equal someone who has a masters in the same discipline such as engineering but from State U? I disagree with that. Grad school is an entirely different beast than undergrad and in no way should the applicants be seen as equally qualified.

For the most part, any nationally accredited school will have the same basic say engineering coursework and topics. Thermodynamics at MIT is no different than Thermodynamics at CU. Grad school is where the differences shine.

That B.S. from MIT still sounds good in an HR manager's eye, but if married with a lot of experience. But yes, grad school is a far different beast and much, much harder in every field and the reason why college professors usually have no less than an M.A. or M.S.



I hope my answers/retorts (in bold) clarify what I think. Though I wouldn't choose DeVry, it just doesn't sound like it is a terrible waste of time. In the long run, the cost of school is nothing compared with what rent or mortgage can cost over many years, transportation, and just basic day to day living.

If you approach an 18 year old just out of high school and say that college will cost you $10-30K a year, then it sounds like a raw deal anyway you slice it. But over decades and decades, even if the college degree only nets you 10% percent pay raise per year vs. not having a degree, then the college degree still makes sense even if it is from an unknown school like DeVry.

I say it's unknown since I had to look up DeVry to see if it offered degrees which were regionally accredited (and schools that have other types of accreditations may help but it's the six regionals which count as if to the degree being educationally accepted and transferable) and I had to also see if they offered anything beyond certifications and associate's degrees. I don't knock associate's degrees or certifications but some schools, by the nature of their commercials/ads, someone like DeVry seems to push that part of their school and it can be hard to distinguish between that school and one that only offers associate's degrees and certifications.
 
Last edited:
As a former HR person, we had to look at one thing first which is experience. Experience is king much the way cash is king to a business. While it may favor older people and not be so friendly to some 20-somethings just getting started out, well then welcome to the real world of paying your dues. It sucks but in some ways I wouldn't trade those first few years for anything.

Experience on a resume was the first barrier and after that we can talk about education. When we saw education, we broke it up into HS grad, junior college grad, college grad, grad school, and certifications/licenses. Once we saw those, then and only then could we weigh a state funded school against someone like a DeVry or University of Phoenix. If we are talking a middle ranked California State University vs. a Devry, then it's about the same. But if the publicly funded school is a UCLA or Cal Berkeley, then those schools take a front seat.

That's a good point. At the same time after I graduated Devry, I went to job fairs at CSUN and some companies flat out told me, we don't hire Devry. I also had a friend who was told at an interview, you have good experience and grades but I'd rather take a 2.5 GPA graduate from CSUN over someone from Devry. He ended up doing what I did and got a MS to compensate for the crappy BS. I think it depends on what HR values.

But all things equal, Devry stock has rockbottom stock education wise. I don't know many schools that would be considered lower. I work with a ton of people from middle ranked Cal States at a company with 9000 people. There are only two of us from Devry there and we both know we're the exception and very fortunate.

It's a good thing you got your M.S. degree, but not so much because your bachelor's was DeVry, but more because your graduate education places you in a different category than most people with a bachelor's. However, if you went against an applicant with just a bachelor's degree, but from a very small list like a Cal Tech or MIT, then that other person would likely be seen as the better candidate, with all experience having been about equal between you and that person.

I think getting a MS to overshadow my Devry BS and not having to deal with Bachelor Degree comparisons anymore are almost the same thing. But yeah, that was pretty much what I was aiming for when I went back to school.
 
I think getting a MS to overshadow my Devry BS and not having to deal with Bachelor Degree comparisons anymore are almost the same thing. But yeah, that was pretty much what I was aiming for when I went back to school.

For whatever reason you got your hard earned M.S. will fade into memory, but it will likely help you on your resume but if you stay with your field and evolve.

I hope the information that you got out of graduate school and that hard work you put into it (probably sweating blood being both a master's and in a tough field like engineering) give you the satisfaction in and of itself and I should think you should be just as proud of that master's whether you went to DeVry for your bachelor's or MIT for that bachelor's.

I always meet people who went to a vigorous place like an MIT for their undergrad, but may have gone to a far less visible grad school but still had their butt kicked in grad school. I don't know of any grad school which is easy in any field and it's that whole thesis/original research thing which kicks us in the gut. Those three to five page papers we all saw in undergraduate school don't cut in it graduate school, in any field. ;) There's a reason why just under 30 percent of the work force has that bachelor's, but less than 8 percent have a master's degree or higher. The master's and higher is designed to be far from an easily attainable endeavor and I don't think this will change much in the future. Where some say a bachelor's is like a high school diploma a hundred years ago, it would be inaccurate to say today's master's degree is like bachelor's degree, due to diploma inflation. Graduate education is still largely either ivory tower stuff or professional education to further one with a bachelor's in a given field.

One school "recruiter", and not even one for a for-profit institution, told me once I got through the 120-130 units for the bachelor's then the master's is just ten more classes. Well each class was like two or even three undergrad classes from the same school in the amount of work needed and the recruiter failed to mention the up to twenty or so extra units of prerequisite courses almost all have to take. The recruiter always talks about some outlier who earned their master's degree in just one year, but I would hate to think how hard that person worked in two semesters with at least 15 units (5 classes) of grad courses each semester.
 
Last edited:
One school "recruiter", and not even one for a for-profit institution, told me once I got through the 120-130 units for the bachelor's then the master's is just ten more classes. Well each class was like two or even three undergrad classes from the same school in the amount of work needed and the recruiter failed to mention the up to twenty or so extra units of prerequisite courses almost all have to take. The recruiter always talks about some outlier who earned their master's degree in just one year, but I would hate to think how hard that person worked in two semesters with at least 15 units (5 classes) of grad courses each semester.

Depends on the field I suppose. I did my undergrad in mechanical engineering, graduated top of my class, didn't have much of a life outside of school as it took up allllllll of my time

Go to grad school, not for engineering, but a science discipline. Must say that the class workload is a step down from what I am used to. All of the sudden, I have most evenings and most weekends relatively free and it's nice. I found that my grad classes were easier as well from what I did in undergrad.

Granted it is not a cakewalk but is easier comparatively. Then again, my classmates who did their BS in the same field as our masters think it is so much work, and I sort of chuckle to myself.

Maybe it is my approach to school this time around as I found in my time working before going back that grades really don't matter so all the work to get the A was kind of a waste in terms of getting hired. My approach is to learn the material, don't sweat the small details, and focus on my research.

Just my take on the experience so far

What it tells me though is that not all BS's are created equal......nor masters degrees
 
There are "colleges" where "professors" don't have doctoral degrees?

A former manager of mine was a programming instructor at ITT, and he only had a bachelor's degree. But, hey, it was ITT.

Oddly enough, when I was working on my BA in History (at a state university), one of the profs in the department did not have a doctoral. He was the lowest rank in the prof ranks (assistant or associate, I forget) and was A.B.D, but he was a professor, not the adjunct instructor like the sometimes used for freshman level classes. He couldn't teach the upper level senior/grad level courses, though. He was a pretty cool prof, though.
 
I graduated from DeVry. It wasn't the worst choice of my life, but no, it's not worth it. It costs too much for what you get. Some of the professors were terrible, some were absolutely fantastic. Most were great, knew their material and were friendly and truly wanted to help you. But overall, I wouldn't recommend it and you're better off going to a state or community college.
 
A former manager of mine was a programming instructor at ITT, and he only had a bachelor's degree. But, hey, it was ITT.

Oddly enough, when I was working on my BA in History (at a state university), one of the profs in the department did not have a doctoral. He was the lowest rank in the prof ranks (assistant or associate, I forget) and was A.B.D, but he was a professor, not the adjunct instructor like the sometimes used for freshman level classes. He couldn't teach the upper level senior/grad level courses, though. He was a pretty cool prof, though.

Interesting. I'm frankly surprised that university would have a tenure track or tenured professor without a doctorate.
 
Interesting. I'm frankly surprised that university would have a tenure track or tenured professor without a doctorate.

Actually, I agree 100% percent. In a fair and perfect world, only the PhD should get hired as most PhDs I know want to shoot for a teaching position. It's a lot of work to go eight years to school only to never get in as a prof. If things work out perfectly then all who seek and finish the PhD will have a college system where only they could teach and there would be very, very few PhDs out of a job.

But I know quite a few PhDs who either got severely underemployed teaching at a trade school or unaccredited college, and many PhDs have regular jobs that don't require that level of education. Of course, many a PhD is out of work and it does seem kind of weird that any college would have someone with a bachelor's teaching a class! I only saw it a couple of times, once at a private university and once at my state university, and they must have been very exceptional to get the position. I have seen quite a few master's degree professors though at uni and junior college.

While there are definitely some PhDs who don't know how to teach well, I think in the circumstances where I had a prof without a grad degree odd because the school could have found somebody with more education. I don't know if I would go as far to say a master's is too low to teach college, but our market is flooded with far too many people with PhDs who want to teach and too few positions to employ them.

http://100rsns.blogspot.com/2011/04/55-there-are-too-many-phds.html

Just like your dentist or doctor or pharmacist needs to have eight years of education, why not make that a requirement for tenured profs and adjuncts, and if there is space left over, then look at the MA/MS candidates.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. I'm frankly surprised that university would have a tenure track or tenured professor without a doctorate.

Actually, I don't think he was tenured. He did teach there for a long time, though I don't think he ever got his Ph.D. I suspect the other profs were happy to let him teach a lot of the freshman level classes. Another oddity in our dept. was one of our profs was one of the weird ones :))) who preferred teaching to research or writing, and refused to publish anything. The university denied him tenure, so he sued and won, and was granted tenure.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.