Did Apple Acquire Imsense Ltd for HDR Capabilities in iOS 4.1?

[Garion]

A "true" high dynamic range image would be one that contains more dynamic range, and subsequently be editable in image programs that can edit HDR imagery, as RAW or floating point image data.

The iPhone does not generate HDR images. It combines multiple exposures in a way to bring out more information, but generates a plain old JPEG as a result, which is NOT a high-dynamic-range image format.

You Sir have got it all backwards, I'm sorry to say. *s* First of all, there is no such thing as a particular "HDR file format". Whether it is JPEG, RAW or some other fileformat doesn't have anything to do with it. You may save an HDR photo as JPEG, no problem there.

HDR IS about combining multiple exposures to draw the extra data out of an underexposed and an overexposed photo, and adding it to the normally exposed shot. Which is exactly what the iPhone 4 does in iOS 4.1. Only it automates the proces, and does it so fast that you don't even notice that is has shot three different exposures and combined them into one HDR image!

 

[BTW]

That's a very cool piece of software that I'm sure the whole industry will want to copy.

 

[dimmer-fj]

But it can't, can't be true!

We were just told, by some analyst or something, that Apple doesn't acquire other companies, not ever! They just sit on their mega-wad of cash, smoking Havanas and pissing on their shareholders! And not paying dividends! No, this idea breaks all rules of analyst logic! Apple needs to give us back our money!

You've all been duped, duped I tell you!

 

[Garion]

Yes. ive got a picture I took where the man was moving and he has 2-3 heads!!! the shutter speed is fast but not perfect.

Hence my argument why this is not true HDR and actually exposure compensation

Sorry, but you're wrong about what HDR is and isn't. You CANNOT make an HDR image from just one exposure. No can do.
True HDR IS the process of merging multiple exposures into one image!

Exposure compensation is something else entirely. That's simply just adjusting the exposure up or down a given number of F-stops relative to the cameras own automated aperture setting. Nothing to do with HDR what so ever. And exposure compensation is NOT what the HDR software does in the iPhone. The HDR in the iPhone 4 is true HDR BECAUSE it shoots three different exposures and merges them into one. It simply automates the HDR merging process in-camera which you'd normally have to do in post processing in an image editor like PhotoShop.

 

[izimzis]

So who developed the hdr app, that is suposed to be much better than their technology?

 

[Apple Corps]

No. There's no way you can extract information from a photo that isn't there in the first place. That is, you can't bring out detail from a sky that is burnt out because of overexposure, or recreate details that have been lost in utter blackness in an underexposed photo. If that were possible through software processing all cameras would have that sort of software-correction built into their image processing engines. You need more than one exposure to do HDR.

The iPhone 4 (with HDR in iOS 4.1) takes three seperate pictures in rapid succession, one normally exposed, one underexposed, and one overexposed. What the HDR software then does is to automate the proces of combining these three different exposures into one HDR image. A proces which you'd normally have to do on you Mac or PC in post processing.
Hope that was helpful? *s*

So - let us say we want to capture an image at a given aperture (for dof) and iso. That determines a shutter speed / say 1/125. If our image is of a tree, and the wind is blowing erratically, would I not obtain motion blur as the camera now has to capture 3 images at whatever the aperture is and 1/125 +/- whatever EV?

 

[Cavepainter]

Uh, people who buy DSLRs want CONTROL over the HDR/tone-mapping process. There are tons of Photoshop plugins and great control in Lightroom, Aperture, etc that do this, and all of them provide far more control over the process than the iPhone method does. Many cameras, even point-and-shoots, do what is called "exposure bracketing" which is what the iPhone is doing when it takes three pictures. But even the point-and-shoots provide control over the exposure range which is captured.

In other words, people who actually care about the results they want to achieve use better tools that have been around for years.

My point is, if many DSLRs can have a button that lets you do a quick and easy sepia tone, or a black and white mode, or a bunch of other effects, why cant they do the same with HDR?

Like you, I'm one of those people who actually care about the results- I use Photoshop and I have an excellent Canon with a handful of L lenses that I really enjoy. But maybe I don't want to spend a bunch of my time messing around with multiple exposure HDRs when all I want a nice cool pic of my kid once in a while, you know?

 

[cupcakes2000]

just cos I don't think everyone is clear on this....

Auto bracketing is a feature on most dSLR's which enable three exposures taken at the same time with one shutter press. It takes a correctly exposed exposure, and also 2 more, one stop (for example) either side.

An HDR photo is created when these three exposures are merged with the appropriate software.

The iphone is just doing this very thing, but just negating the need for external editing.

Now, I don't have an iphone of any sort but, you most certainly don't have to press the shutter 3 times with a dSLR, or have to hold your finger on the shutter release 'til 3 exposures are taken. The exposures are essentially are just one shot recreated 3 times in camera with whichever bracket settings you used.

Not three very rapid quick succession shots. That would cause untold problems.

To suggest that the scene has to remain completely still whist the camera took 3 separate shots is ridiculous! The technique would be totally pointless implemented on a phone! You would need a tripod!

 

[Apple Corps]

cupcakes - so there is only one exposure and the camera creates 3 files - the original and two others +/- whatever EV is in the program?

That would make sense to me but there are conflicting opinions as to how HDR is created.

 

[MattInOz]

No, I get it. I'm just tired of people getting all excited every time Apple takes a dump. Especially when better solutions exist. And now Apple has just delivered a gigantic "F-U" to the developers of those better solutions.

MAN this cool-aid is TASTY!! It's brown and lumpy, and kinda warm and smells funny, but WOW!

Really interesting definition of F-U.
Some developers got a big cheque that made them and their investors happy. Happy investor then reinvest in other developers. These developers get a drivers seat access to a vehicles that can let them push the technology both on a pro level through Apples video and image production assets but to the consumer level out to devices like the iPhone. That creates competition that opens doors for other developers of those better solutions.

You have to remember a lot of us here the ones who jump up and down and get excited are designers in various fields we understand the work involved in taking something from geek to grandma. That is really something to get exited about the more people in the market doing it and setting higher expectations in the market the more rewarding that hard work is for all of us.

 

[cupcakes2000]

cupcakes - so there is only one exposure and the camera creates 3 files - the original and two others +/- whatever EV is in the program?

That would make sense to me but there are conflicting opinions as to how HDR is created.

Well like I said I don't own an Iphone, but this is how it works with the auto bracket feature on my dSLR.

I really doubt the iphone takes three in 'quick succession'. It doesn't matter how quick they were, handheld they would look pretty bad merged for HDR.

My post above explains how I create HDR pictures. Not entirely sure there is another way? I know you can fake HDR in photoshop and other programs, But I think for true HDR you do it this way.

correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[Apple Corps]

I just have trouble understanding the "three photos in quick succession" - motion blur would ruin the resolution - you would gain image data from the blown out and underexposed portions but at the expense of sharpness.

 

[MattInOz]

I just have trouble understanding the "three photos in quick succession" - motion blur would ruin the resolution - you would gain image data from the blown out and underexposed portions but at the expense of sharpness.

That is the trade off of HDR.
Somedays it'll get you an advantage, somedays not.
Overcast days it's not going to add anything the light just isn't distinct enough in any direction.
Windy days any advantage will be lost quickly to motion blur between frames unless your in a concrete waste land.
Any day after to much coffee ditto.

Mostly Sunny days a mild breeze or a tripod and remote activation of some sort it'll work like a charm.
In between then take both see which one is best.
Your may find that the motion blur adds to the descriptiveness of the photo.

 

[cupcakes2000]

That is the trade off of HDR.
Somedays it'll get you an advantage, somedays not.
Overcast days it's not going to add anything the light just isn't distinct enough in any direction.
Windy days any advantage will be lost quickly to motion blur between frames unless your in a concrete waste land.
Any day after to much coffee ditto.

Mostly Sunny days a mild breeze or a tripod and remote activation of some sort it'll work like a charm.
In between then take both see which one is best.
Your may find that the motion blur adds to the descriptiveness of the photo.

No but thats my point! It's not gonna be three photos in quick succession if it uses auto bracketing! The camera takes one exposure and then recreates a further two, one stop or whatever either side.

 

[Mac Kiwi]

Here is another angle on HDR or HDRI

http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Probes/ There is probably no one with more knowledge on this subject then Debevec, sans maybe Stu Maschwitz.

 

[DaveN]

Not really HDR but exposure fusion

There is a free Mac application that does the same on any photos you have. I use Xfuse to do the same and have had excellent results. Best of all, Xfuse is free!!!

http://www.kekus.com/legacy_products.html

 

[MattInOz]

No but thats my point! It's not gonna be three photos in quick succession if it uses auto bracketing! The camera takes one exposure and then recreates a further two, one stop or whatever either side.

By "recreate" I'm assuming you mean by processing the first image to make the additional images, instead of reading the sensor output three times.

Would that work as the sensor doesn't record enough range to start with otherwise you wouldn't need to use HDR.
So it would taking one image making two lossy versions of it then combining then back to somehow get more information than you start with.

To me it has to be at least two reads of the sensor and probably three so they have the base image and the two either side. So they have more information to build the final image out of.

 

[joueboy]

3g & 3gs?

So the imphoto app is been available on iTunes that works perfectly for 3G and 3Gs users. This makes me hate Apple when they do this, they killed the app then it won't support older iPhones. I still don't understand why not HDR feature not available at least on 3Gs don't tell me it's a hardware issue when imphoto app works perfectly. Somebody needs to email Steve Jobs regarding this matter. I hope he's not lying like he usually do!

 

[dsut4392]

I just have trouble understanding the "three photos in quick succession" - motion blur would ruin the resolution - you would gain image data from the blown out and underexposed portions but at the expense of sharpness.

Correct, that is one limitation of HDR, and it a bigger problem the more apparent sharpness you want in your image.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

I really doubt the iphone takes three in 'quick succession'. It doesn't matter how quick they were, handheld they would look pretty bad merged for HDR.

I think that's what the iPhone does in iOs 4.1, and yes it can look bad if your subject or the camera are moving while you take this picture. It works better with a stable camera and still subject matter.

Here is an example of an unstable photo taken with Apple's HDR option:

http://gizmodo.com/5627919/this-is-how-ios-41-hdr-photos-look-in-reality

 

[dsut4392]

No but thats my point! It's not gonna be three photos in quick succession if it uses auto bracketing! The camera takes one exposure and then recreates a further two, one stop or whatever either side.

Sorry cupcakes, you are just plain wrong on this one. Auto bracketing _does_ take multiple exposures in succession, and has done since the "auto" first got added to "bracketing" with the combination of electronic exposure controls and motor drives in film cameras in the late '70s.

What imsense have done isn't magic "recreation" of images by the camera, but if they have worked out multi-exposure on the iphone camera to use a fast enough shutter and short enough interval between exposures to make hand-held auto-bracketing practical for HDR, this is a worhwhile achievement.

 

[CFreymarc]

i gotta say i didn't think i'd used HDR photos, but i took a ton at the beach this weekend and they all looked great. Just wish it went a little faster.

I am sure that the next generation device, call it iPhone 5 or whatever, HDR will be implemented in hardware by some sort of gate array on the die.

 

[NightFox]

Uh, people who buy DSLRs want CONTROL over the HDR/tone-mapping process. There are tons of Photoshop plugins and great control in Lightroom, Aperture, etc that do this, and all of them provide far more control over the process than the iPhone method does. Many cameras, even point-and-shoots, do what is called "exposure bracketing" which is what the iPhone is doing when it takes three pictures. But even the point-and-shoots provide control over the exposure range which is captured.

In other words, people who actually care about the results they want to achieve use better tools that have been around for years.

I don't think that's the case now as more and more DSLRs are being targetted at the beginner - I bet there's thousands of Canon 1000Ds and Nikon D3000s that are only ever used on their fully auto settings. Just look at some of the other features that are built into low-mid range DSLRs (like shooting in sepia or vignetting) - your argument could be applied just as equally to those features.

 

[VulchR]

So the imphoto app is been available on iTunes that works perfectly for 3G and 3Gs users. This makes me hate Apple when they do this, they killed the app then it won't support older iPhones. I still don't understand why not HDR feature not available at least on 3Gs don't tell me it's a hardware issue when imphoto app works perfectly. Somebody needs to email Steve Jobs regarding this matter. I hope he's not lying like he usually do!

Pro HDR is still available and works on a 3GS (quite well, in fact). However, like you, I fail to understand why the HDR feature is not available on the 3GS via Apple's Camera app. Oh wait, could it be that Apple wants us 3GS users to buy new iPhones? I guess they have to do the cost/benefit analysis of increased sales due to planned obsolescence versus the decreased sales when customers get annoyed.

In any case, I cannot believe Apple has added HDR but I still can't sync To-Do items from iCal with my iPhone....

 

[bruckg]

Wow, I'd love to take a look at the algorithms they're using. That must be incredibly interesting...