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BlueMoose

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 23, 2019
242
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did Apple ever come up with a solution for Face ID not working with face masks?

More than 90% of the places that I go to still have mandatory mask requirements with no exception... doesn't matter if one is vaccinated or unvaccinated... (work, shopping, doctor's office, hospital, etc)

since last year, I just entered my pin code to unlock my iPhones. when the pandemic started, I think someone came up with some tricks to fool Face ID, but none of them ever worked for me, so I pretty much forgot about them.

during the last year and half, I sometimes take my old iPhone SE(2020) with me because it had Touch ID, but I also gave up on that....
 
The solution is bringing Touch ID back. They are NOT mutually exclusive despite how people thinks.
And the solution to less than perfect audio is to bring back the headphone jack. :rolleyes:

I do admit though that there may be more of a chance of the return of TouchID then there is the headphone jack though.

Still carrying the flag for TouchID I see. ;)
 
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And the solution to less than perfect audio is to bring back the headphone jack. :rolleyes:

I do admit though that there may be more of a chance of the return of TouchID then there is the headphone jack though.

Still carrying the flag for TouchID I see. ;)
I’d argue Touch ID takes far less space than headphone jack.

Plus, way more people at his point would want Touch ID than wanting headphone jack.
 
Interesting that you brought up this topic. I am not sure what happened but now my phone (iPhone 12 Pro) sometimes manages to unlock when I am with mask. I can't tell you why it happens. So far I have two ideas (but might be completely wrong). First I read somewhere that in case of Face ID failure, the phone tries to gather data so that next time the machine learning algorithm can improve. So I am thinking maybe it starts to realize that it's me using that mask and this is why it works. Another reason is that maybe sometimes my mask slits down a bit and my nose is a bit more exposed and this helps Face ID to work. No idea.

I noticed this last week as I had to travel with bus for 2 hours and I had to wear it. I had to enter the passcode the first hour but after that it started to work and did not require passcode. I saw the same yesterday when I was at the bank. After few failed attempts it started to work.

Or maybe there is iOS bug?
 
Yeah, FaceID during mask mandates is surely annoying, but it doesn't serve anything to spend R&D to make a mask "compatible" FaceID system, when this thing is temporary anyway. Putting TouchID is a simpler solution without compromising FaceID's own tech.
 
did Apple ever come up with a solution for Face ID not working with face masks?

More than 90% of the places that I go to still have mandatory mask requirements with no exception... doesn't matter if one is vaccinated or unvaccinated... (work, shopping, doctor's office, hospital, etc)

since last year, I just entered my pin code to unlock my iPhones. when the pandemic started, I think someone came up with some tricks to fool Face ID, but none of them ever worked for me, so I pretty much forgot about them.

during the last year and half, I sometimes take my old iPhone SE(2020) with me because it had Touch ID, but I also gave up on that....
I think some software issue in your phone.
 
Wow. So much misinformation. (and, only in 'merica would people politicize science).

These viruses are only going to become more frequent (they have been). We need everyone to get vaccinated so variants don't evolve that are immune to the vaccines. That happens? We start over. And maybe that one has a higher mortality rate.

We need Touch ID for that reason (plus it was a hell of a lot faster than Face ID ever was).
 
Its easy to say "They need to add TouchID", implementation is a different story.

The TouchID and FaceID communicate with their own specially designed coprocessor (Secure Enclave) that is isolated from the phone in nearly every way it can be. That would need to completely redesign for the Secure Enclave coprocessor to work with both biometrics at the same time, sharing an encrypted rotating key with an additional sensor w/o actually sharing it though.

The Secure Enclave is located on the SoC. So they would would also need to redesign the A15 Bionic (or whatever their next chip is going to be called) to make room for this hybrid Secure Enclave and its isolated memory.

Apples security certification would no longer be valid (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202739) because FaceID replaced TouchID with a higher level of security for 3rd party apps so devs didn't need to do anything. That doesn't work in reverse so devs will need to:
-Certify a lower level of security is ok for their app.
-Rewrite their app to except two forms of biometric API which will take months after the next iPhone release like it has in the past so apps wont work (btw 2 points of entry so even less secure then just TouchID or just FaceID).

iOS will need to accommodate a method of defaulting biometric popup when using ApplePay or entering secure areas of the phone like Keychains, etc.

TouchID sensor will need to be put on the phone. This sensor isn't like standard sensors on other phones. Apple uses a lot higher detail and resolution for ridge data and such. Back would be tough because of the wireless charger, front under the screen might be possible for them however without compromising their OLED and maintaining that fingerprint resolution and such I'm sure it will require new tech that's not like other under screen sensors.

So basically all the iPhones hardware from SoC to screen from case to memory, iOS itself, the security OS that runs on Secure Enclave including boot rom and system encryption decryption, plus all the apps that use FaceID/TouchID APIs would need to be completely reworked/replaced.

Doing something like that only makes sense if you are introducing "the next big thing". It does not make sense to solve a temporary inconvenience with some old less secure tech implementation. Apple is a business and this won't sell that many more iPhones if any at all. It will cost them a fortune. Reviews would almost certainly criticize it "TouchID....again!". Plus they already made a solution with the Apple Watch.

Three solutions I see....
1. Something new, something better than TouchID and/or FaceID. Something that I (we) can't think of because its just that good....

2. If you want to wear a mask forever that is your right, I support that but you'll need to deal with it, pandemics aren't convenient. You have to type in a password, could be worse you could be one of the 4million people that died.

3. If you need to wear a mask (mandate). Just wait it out. Pandemics don't last forever, there have dozen of worldwide pandemics, hundreds of country/continent sized pandemics and thousands of isolated pandemics. We wore mask for them and took them off when it was over. A mask is the bare minimum protection its not a solution no more than "pulling out" is a solution to unplanned parenthood. You might get lucky and it help...
 
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Its easy to say "They need to add TouchID", implementation is a different story.
...
You might get lucky and it help...
Pretty sure the FaceID data is already stored in the Secure Enclave - so saying that Apple needs to completely redesign what they do with biometric data really isn't valid.

Additionally - not being as secure as FaceID? Well, that really goes to how they implement it. You did mention how Apple will have considerably more points of reference on their scanner - so why does it need to be less secure?

That pandemics are temporary is a given - but there will be more of them. (and we're not done with the current one) - US and UK case counts are on an upward trend. We're not out of the woods yet. Much of the world is still in the thick of it.

Lastly...THEY'VE HAD TIME. They've had years to research how to put the sensor under the screen. FaceID has been problematic in a number of ways and was never as fast as Touch ID. It should have been a priority to get sorted BEFORE they actually removed it.
 
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Seems like a moot issue now with the mandate for masks during the pandemic winding down.

Unfortunately that is not the case. Unvaccinated individuals are causing increasing positivity rates. In Los Angeles it has gone from .5% in June to 3.7% now. Most of the new cases are in the younger generations, 20-40 range (think I have that right). New indoor mask mandates for all in indoor spaces and now required in L.A. The unvaccinated create a pool for the development of new virus variants which can potentially endanger those who have been vaccinated.

FaceID during mask mandates is surely annoying, but it doesn't serve anything to spend R&D to make a mask "compatible" FaceID system,

Would it even be possible? With only a few data points (eyes, width, height, ?) I would think that it would even be possible. Not enough areas to differentiate.

We need everyone to get vaccinated so variants don't evolve that are immune to the vaccines.

Yep.
 
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When wearing a mask my face ID works perfect when wearing my Apple watch. I look at phone, Apple watch vibrates than my phone unlocks.
 
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And the solution to less than perfect audio is to bring back the headphone jack. :rolleyes:

I do admit though that there may be more of a chance of the return of TouchID then there is the headphone jack though.

Still carrying the flag for TouchID I see. ;)
Unobtrusive TouchID integrated into the power button, like on the new iPad Air.
 
On the power button like the Air makes sense, even better than in screen IMO. Even without the "mask" issue it would be useful. I'd bet some people would even like the option to require BOTH for improved security.

One of the things I still prefer about TouchID was/is being able to unlock it well before the phone needed to see my face as I could do so physically while picking it up or pulling it out my pocket. So in that case it always feels faster to me than faceID has.
 
Unobtrusive TouchID integrated into the power button, like on the new iPad Air.
I wasn't aware Apple was doing that with the iPad now. That's cool.

The newest (and only) iPad I own is the 2018 6th gen.
 
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On the power button like the Air makes sense, even better than in screen IMO. Even without the "mask" issue it would be useful. I'd bet some people would even like the option to require BOTH for improved security.

One of the things I still prefer about TouchID was/is being able to unlock it well before the phone needed to see my face as I could do so physically while picking it up or pulling it out my pocket. So in that case it always feels faster to me than faceID has.
I can see Touch ID on the air being short lived. They’ve already moved to the Face ID design for the air so I can imagine it won’t be too long before Touch ID is replaced with Face ID in the air.

I bet the new iPad mini will be the Face ID design with Touch ID in the power button. Then the following release of the mini will ditch the Touch ID and replace it with Face ID. And then the base ipad will follow as that’s the hardest one to meet the Face ID price point for.

I predict the iPhone SE will basically be the 12 mini in the next release or two then all the phones and tablets will be Face ID.
 
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