did apple solve keyboard issues for MBP 2016

[eddjedi]

If anybody can show me a shred of evidence that there are mechanical changes to the 2017 MBP keyboard, I'm all ears. Nobody has done so yet. Forgive me for using iFixit, widely regarded as the best source for repair guides, as a credible reference. Perhaps I should listen to people who don't even own a Macbook Pro instead, clearly their opinions are far more valid.
[doublepost=1514970742][/doublepost]

To say there have been no changes to the original 2016 keyboard is just plain ignorance of manufacturing design processes/lifecycles.

Likewise, to say there have definitely been changes because other unrelated products by different manufacturers have been updated is what, genius?
[doublepost=1514971049][/doublepost]I also find it interesting that the same few people who by their own admission don't own a Macbook Pro (or in one users case a Mac at all) keep liking any post that is negative about the new Macbook Pro keyboard. Why are you guys even on this website?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

If anybody can show me a shred of evidence that there are mechanical changes to the 2017 MBP keyboard, I'm all ears. Nobody has done so yet. Forgive me for using iFixit, widely regarded as the best source for repair guides, as a credible reference. Perhaps I should listen to people who don't even own a Macbook Pro instead, clearly their opinions are far more valid.
[doublepost=1514970742][/doublepost]

Likewise, to say there have definitely been changes because other unrelated products by different manufacturers have been updated is what, genius?
[doublepost=1514971049][/doublepost]I also find it interesting that the same few people who by their own admission don't own a Macbook Pro (or in one users case a Mac at all) keep liking any post that is negative about the new Macbook Pro keyboard. Why are you guys even on this website?

I dug into this before. There was evidence of a minor mechanical change on a 2017 keyboard, however there was no evidence of widespread change. Not all 2017's have the slight change, and some 2016's had the same change. So I think the evidence points towards individual manufacturers in the supply chain rather than a dedicated design change. Also explains why some 2017's continue to fail and some 2016's continue to be absolutely fine. I can't be bothered to find a link as it's all circumstantial and I've learnt that links/facts/evidence don't really count for much on here above 'personal experience'.

Second question no idea, that's a can of worms! People love to complain, people don't like to be wrong, people like to reinforce personal opinion. I don't think there will ever be consensus on this though as clearly the MacBook one currently owns is the best and everything is else garbage...

 

[eddjedi]

Yep, this can be a strange place sometimes. Apparently it is "hard to back up anything I say" despite 1) I own a 2016 Macbook Pro and b) posted a link to an iFixit guide saying the keyboards are mechanically identical apart from different painted decals. Yet because other companies have updated other random products before, apparently that makes it a dead cert that Apple have changed the keyboard despite providing no evidence. I know who I find it "hard to back up" in this discussion...

 

[mj_]

I own a 2016 MBP 13" and I've had the "pleasure" to experience multiple keyboard failures in the past eight months. Most recently, Apple has finally bestowed the 2017 keyboard upon me and I can tell you that there is definitely a massive haptic and tactile difference between the two. I have not taken either of them apart but I remember seeing a YouTube video after the first keyboard replacement back in July 2017 where somebody did. Luckily I took a screenshot:

It seems like Apple hasn't touched the butterfly mechanism itself but the keycaps instead. Not sure how and what this minor change did, and whether or not the mechanism itself has also been optimized in the meantime.

 

[eddjedi]

Interesting video, found it on Youtube:

Unfortunately there's an obvious flaw in his test - he never compares the same keys. The screenshot you posted doesn't show the same key, different sizes and no rubber feet on one. In his next two shots (attached) he is also comparing different keys (F & D, H & N) and as all look different from each other I don't see what this is supposed to prove. I'd like to see the back of two of the same keys from 2016 & 2017 keyboards.

 

[Fishrrman]

I predict that eventually Apple is going to give up on this design, and either move forward to a completely new design... or else "move back" to the previous (2015) design, possibly with a "new face" on it to "cloak" the fact that they're back to using the older style...

 

[Falhófnir]

I predict that eventually Apple is going to give up on this design, and either move forward to a completely new design... or else "move back" to the previous (2015) design, possibly with a "new face" on it to "cloak" the fact that they're back to using the older style...

It’s an acceptable compromise for an ultraportable like the 12” (note that other manufacturers have gone as thin without resorting to minimal travel keyboards though) but it’s unnecessary for the pros. I sometimes wonder if it’s meant to be ‘prep’ for a digital keyboard with Taptic feedback, but then I think even Apple would be embarrassed to offer such an unergonomic user experience, surely? That sort of thing would be ok for tapping out a side or two but for people who do a lot of typing it would be awful. I think the butterfly keyboard is just a misguided attempt to make a keyboard that has anacceptable feel while freeing up more internal space for other components, allowing a thinner chassis. Hopefully Apple will see sense and develop the best keyboard they can for a new design of MacBook Pro, not the best keyboard they can while staying with just .5mm of travel.

 

[mj_]

Unfortunately there's an obvious flaw in his test - he never compares the same keys. The screenshot you posted doesn't show the same key, different sizes and no rubber feet on one. In his next two shots (attached) he is also comparing different keys (F & D, H & N) and as all look different from each other I don't see what this is supposed to prove. I'd like to see the back of two of the same keys from 2016 & 2017 keyboards.

I see what you're saying and yes, it would have been better if he compared the same keys (although I do have to say that the two keys on the screenshot I posted look absolutely identical in size, and I don't see any other key that is even close in size to the Enter key on my keyboard) in his video but it really doesn't make any difference at all. None. Nada. Zero. Or are you actually and in all seriousness claiming that the F, D, H & N keys actually differ from each other? Are you really saying that you honestly think that the various same-sized same-shaped keys differ in any other way than their respective labels? Have you ever taken apart a keyboard? If so you know that same-sized keys, for example letters, numbers, or the F-keys, are all absolutely identical and only differ in their respective labeling. Go ahead and take your keyboard (or any other for that matter) apart and you will notice, that the ` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = q w e r t y u i o p [ ] \ a s d f g h j k l ; ' z x c v b n m , . / keys are absolutely and 100% identical apart from their respective labels. That's why it's very easy to reseat keycaps to different locations if necessary, and that is also why it's important to take a before-photo of the assembled keyboard (trust me... been there, done that ).

Therefore it doesn't really matter whether he's comparing a 2016 F to a 2017 F or a 2016 F to a 2017 V key.

 

[eddjedi]

You may be right, but from his photos it's hard for me to tell. It looks like there are more than two different types of key, the left key in the first photo looks different from the left key in the second photo. Not just the center circle, other features too. I'm not saying he's wrong, and with Apple's habit of over-engineering it wouldn't surprise me one bit if each key had a different design, but for it to be conclusive I would want to see not only the same keys compared, but also them at the same angle and size etc.

Also he is guessing that the circle has any impact on performance, as somebody previously mentioned that could simply be a difference in manufacturing rather than an intended "upgrade."

 

[mj_]

Could be, true. Not saying it's conclusive proof but I can assure you that there is a significant difference between typing on the 2016 and typing on the 2017 keyboard. It also differs greatly from the original MacBook keyboard and I don't remember hearing that many complaints about failed MacBook keyboards with 1st gen butterfly switches.

Apple isn't going to comment on this. They will keep this on the Q.T. for various reasons, and I can't blame them. Thus, unless they issue a full-blown recall we will never know for sure how many keyboards are really affected and whether it's 0.5% or 50%. The only thing we do know for sure is that a) the new mechanism is much more susceptible to specks of dust and dirt, b) it hates sustained heat, and c) it is impossible to repair once it fails. The first 2016 models are running out of warranty now, and it'll be interesting to see how Apple is going to handle this. After all a top case replacement out of warranty is between $500 (ESC edition) and $700 (Touch Bar).

 

[Falhófnir]

it hates sustained heat

Speaking of which, do the new 8th gen chips with extra cores run hotter than the 7th gen ones do? It’d seem pretty logical that they would if the main difference between gen 7 and 8 is additional cores with a few other tweaks thrown in. Might be even more reason to wait until Intel finally get their act together with 10nm chips, though Apple will likely have made a move on the keyboard before then at this rate

 

[_Kiki_]

2016 and 2017 has the same keyboard check post #30

 

[Falhófnir]

2016 and 2017 has the same keyboard check post #30

It could boil down to any change being just in the tolerances being adjusted, the mechanism stiffened (slightly different plastic?) or something else invisible, so inspecting the key caps ultimately means nil...

 

[Eerriikkoo]

The new keyboard on my 2016 MBP looks the same as the 2017 version, with symbols on the option and ctrl keys. It feels different than the 2016 version, at least it feels different than the one I had before. Typing is more even across all keys now, every key has the same keytravel and sound. It feels much better, no more sticky keys or double keystrokes, even when the machine gets warmer.
When my keyboard was replaced they also replaced the topcase, the touchbar, the trackpad and the batteries. Also the new touch ID button is firmer in its place, the one I had was wiggly.

 

[4RunnerHeaven]

2016 and 2017 has the same keyboard check post #30

Umm, no it doesn't. I've typed on both as well and there is a difference.

 

[rukind2]

True, but I meant design defect as people throw around. As in if the design is defective then the product is defective at launch, so there will be something around that. Anyway the 2016's are just coming to the end of the warranty period so we'll see what happens over the next few years.

My experience is twofold: while typing the cursor will instantly appear on another line without touching the touchpad. It has to be related to the keys. The second, and more concerning for me, is the clicking sound they make. I'm not a soft touch typist but I am unable to type in proximity to another person owing the sound they make. I prefer the 2015 keys for this reason.

Design defect can be subjective, to a degree. Whereas my keys are not mechanically defective, they are design defective in that the clicking sounds render the keyboard less than ideal. Design is a compromise between form and function. In this case, Apple engineers leaned towards form at the expense of function variables (sound).

 

[Macintoshrumors]

I own a 2016 MBP 13" and I've had the "pleasure" to experience multiple keyboard failures in the past eight months. Most recently, Apple has finally bestowed the 2017 keyboard upon me and I can tell you that there is definitely a massive haptic and tactile difference between the two. I have not taken either of them apart but I remember seeing a YouTube video after the first keyboard replacement back in July 2018 where somebody did. Luckily I took a screenshot:

View attachment 745036

It seems like Apple hasn't touched the butterfly mechanism itself but the keycaps instead. Not sure how and what this minor change did, and whether or not the mechanism itself has also been optimized in the meantime.

You mean July 2017? What are you some sort of time traveler?

 

[mj_]

Came back from the future and fixed it, thanks.