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Did the Mac Genius lie to me? (MBP 2015)

ivan_x3000

ivan_x3000

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 5, 2015
9
0
Ok so i bought a 13 inch Macbook Pro retina 2015 today and i was choosing between the 250gb and 520gb models. We asked two of them if the solid state drive is upgradeable and the guy told me "no, the ssd is soldered on to the logic board and upgrading would snap it", i wanted to get a 256gb model because it doesn't really make sense spending an extra $400 dollars when i'm sure i'd be likely to buy a 1TB ssd in the future. But when my dad heard this, he said well if we can't upgrade we ought to go with the highest memory laptop and we bought it.

And i felt bad because all the educated responses in my body told me this guy was lying. And i asked another genius and she also said it was not upgradeable. But it feels like they were trained to say something like that. Now there is a 14 day money back guarantee. It didn't make sense when there's all these videos on youtube showing how people are upgrading their macbook pro ssds. And also if the ssd became corrupted or faulty, it would be highly illogical to have the ssd soldered on.
 
ivan_x3000 said:
Ok so i bought a 13 inch Macbook Pro retina 2015 today and i was choosing between the 250gb and 520gb models. We asked two of them if the solid state drive is upgradeable and the guy told me "no, the ssd is soldered on to the logic board and upgrading would snap it", i wanted to get a 256gb model because it doesn't really make sense spending an extra $400 dollars when i'm sure i'd be likely to buy a 1TB ssd in the future. But when my dad heard this, he said well if we can't upgrade we ought to go with the highest memory laptop and we bought it.

And i felt bad because all the educated responses in my body told me this guy was lying. And i asked another genius and she also said it was not upgradeable. But it feels like they were trained to say something like that. Now there is a 14 day money back guarantee. It didn't make sense when there's all these videos on youtube showing how people are upgrading their macbook pro ssds. And also if the ssd became corrupted or faulty, it would be highly illogical to have the ssd soldered on.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. The SSD isn't soldered so you could *technically* upgrade. HOWEVER, since there are no third party SSDs on the market compatible with PCIe based Macbooks, you would have to buy a ridiculously expensive SSD pulled from another MacBook on eBay. In this case, I would essentially treat the SSD as un-upgradable. You'll definitely waste more time, money, and hassle trying to upgrade the SSD than just ordering through Apple when you buy the machine.

I personally don't blame the genius for saying it's soldered. It's much easier to say that than give the explanation I just gave. Certainly for less tech-savvy customers it deters any ideas of risking voiding the warranty.
 
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TechZeke said:
Yes and no. The SSD isn't soldered so you could *technically* upgrade. HOWEVER, since there are no third party SSDs on the market compatible with PCIe based Macbooks, you would have to buy a ridiculously expensive SSD pulled from another MacBook on eBay. In this case, I would essentially treat the SSD as un-upgradable. You'll definitely waste more time, money, and hassle trying to upgrade the SSD than just ordering through Apple when you buy the machine.

I personally don't blame the genius for saying it's soldered. It's much easier to say that than give the explanation I just gave. Certainly for less tech-savvy customers it deters any ideas of risking voiding the warranty.
Click to expand...

This was very insightful. However i still feel like i got fleeced. Who wants to spend $400 for extra memory when when in 2 years i i'm going to be spending another $500 upgrading to 1TB anyway. I'm highly considering using the 14 day money back guarantee or swapping. I really don't really like being lied to and i feel worse for not being more proactive. He actually tried to sell my dad one of those useless $250 dollar care plans, Dad went "Yes please!" and i was like "umm, hell no?"
 
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ivan_x3000 said:
This was very insightful. However i still feel like i got fleeced. Who wants to spend $400 for extra memory when when in 2 years i i'm going to be spending another $500 'm gonna be upgrading to 1TB anyway. I'm highly considering using the 14 day money back guarantee or swapping. I really don't like being lied to and i feel worse for not being more proactive. He actually tried to sell my dad one of those useless $250 dollar care plans, Dad went "Yes please!" and i was like "umm, hell no?"
Click to expand...

Personally, I would take the 512GB model and run. If you're fine living off 256GB for 2 years, you probably won't need 1TB in 2 years. Also, to upgrade now you're looking at almost a grand or more for a MacBook 1TB PCIe SSD. The prices may drop by then, but who knows.

I wouldn't say AppleCare is useless. It has certainly saved me hundreds in repairs to due to defects/issues that may show up down the line. I would also recommend getting a separate accidental damage insurance policy for it, though.
 
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Retina MacBook Pros do not have any user-servicable parts. That is a well documented fact, so no you are not getting fleeced. While the SSD is not soldered to the board getting replacement parts involves buying a SSD that has been pulled from another Mac. There are no 3rd party options available as it stands today and that has been the case for the last 2 years.

ivan_x3000 said:
He actually tried to sell my dad one of those useless $250 dollar care plans, Dad went "Yes please!" and i was like "umm, hell no?"
Click to expand...

Okie dokie... all I'm going to say is Apple Care is like insurance. You may not need it, but if your planning to get 3-5 years out of a computer it does help lower risk. It also helps with resale if you plan on selling a Mac after the first year.
 
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ivan_x3000 said:
And i asked another genius and she also said it was not upgradeable. But it feels like they were trained to say something like that.
Click to expand...

They're telling you that it isn't upgrade able because Apple doesn't support any kind of user upgrades in the rMBP.

It didn't make sense when there's all these videos on youtube showing how people are upgrading their macbook pro ssds. And also if the ssd became corrupted or faulty, it would be highly illogical to have the ssd soldered on.
Click to expand...

It isn't soldered on, but it also isn't user upgradeable. The late 2013-2015 rMBPs have a blade style PCI-e SSD and there aren't any 3rd party options available.

You can't just buy an off the shelf SSD and swap it with the one that is installed. You'll have to find a system pull or a service part on eBay.
 
You weren't lied to. As mentioned, there are no 3rd party SSD's on the market you can use to upgrade at this time. There really is no logical reason to return it and buy the lower capacity.

As for Applecare, there are many users of this forum, myself included, that find it invaluable. Not everyone agrees, but the great thing is that you can add Applecare to your purchase a year after purchase (usually up to a day or so before the year is up) and since there are no user upgradeable parts, there really isn't anything you can fix on your own...at this time...
 
ivan_x3000 said:
This was very insightful. However i still feel like i got fleeced. Who wants to spend $400 for extra memory when when in 2 years i i'm going to be spending another $500 'm gonna be upgrading to 1TB anyway. I'm highly considering using the 14 day money back guarantee or swapping. I really don't like being lied to and i feel worse for not being more proactive. He actually tried to sell my dad one of those useless $250 dollar care plans, Dad went "Yes please!" and i was like "umm, hell no?"
Click to expand...

You were not fleeced.
You were not lied to.
AppleCare is not useless.
"I'm highly considering using the 14 day money back guarantee"
You should
 
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TechZeke said:
I personally don't blame the genius for saying it's soldered.
Click to expand...
You don't blame him for lying to the customer?
He should have told him that it is not soldered but it is not user upgreadable and it would void the warranty or something along those lines.
He definitely lied to the customer.
 
z31fanatic said:
You don't blame him for lying to the customer?
He should have told him that it is not soldered but it is not user upgreadable and it would void the warranty or something along those lines.
He definitely lied to the customer.
Click to expand...

Yes, he lied. I wasn't saying it was right. However, it's not like it makes much of difference in the end anyway. It probably saves BS from customers trying to take apart their rMBP and voiding their warranty especially for the less tech savvy folk. A person who is comfortable taking apart a rMBP probably wouldn't be asking a Genius if you could upgrade in the first place.
 
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OK, technically he misadvised you. Then again perhaps he was confusing the RAM (which is soldered and non-upgradeable) and the SSD which is socketed, but also non-upgradable due to proprietary technology, non-availablity of upgrade parts and proprietary screws preventing you getting access inside the computer.

You were not lied to or fleeced and AppleCare is not useless. In fact I just bought it with 2 days of the first year remaining. Anything fails, aside from the battery and I've made the money back.

If it was any other PC laptop or the 2012 and earlier MBP I'd probably agree with you as regards the warranty, having previously worked for a computer retailer that made obscene margin on the warranties. Not so with the rMBP.

If you feel that strongly about it then return the machine under the 14 day return policy, then go buy something that runs Windows and is a far inferior laptop in many ways.
 
T5BRICK said:
They're telling you that it isn't upgrade able because Apple doesn't support any kind of user upgrades in the rMBP.



It isn't soldered on, but it also isn't user upgradeable. The late 2013-2015 rMBPs have a blade style PCI-e SSD and there aren't any 3rd party options available.

You can't just buy an off the shelf SSD and swap it with the one that is installed. You'll have to find a system pull or a service part on eBay.
Click to expand...

 
ivan_x3000 said:
Click to expand...
That doesn't apply to the 2015 models since Apple made a new proprietary connecter starting with the 2015 macbook air. It took the Haswell model quite a while before viable upgrades became available that are both expensive and slow compared to the original SSDs. The only option right is to rip one from another laptop but that's ridiculous on it's own since it would be much cheaper BTO (if one were to do that, it's a whole another issue there).
 
That's all well and good if you rMBP was manufactured in 2012 or early 2013. Apple changed the SSD in late 2013 and no one has bothered to make a third party SSD for Apple's current proprietary connection. Additionally, if you walk into the Apple store and ask to have the SSD replaced with a larger SSD, they will inform you that you can purchase a new machine. There is no reason that they couldn't replace the SSD, but they won't.

I believe that they see the writing on the wall. Current machines have reached a point where they do not need replaced nearly as often for most consumers. Apple is making sure that they keep their margins as high as possible, and one way to do that is to make upgrades very difficult at best, and to keep the hardware as compact as possible and there are good reasons for that as well. Aside from spec chasers and professionals who tax their machines, a current generation laptop should be capable of serving the casual user for many years short of a logic board failure.

It's going to be a tough pill to swallow when I need to replace my current machine. I just hope I can afford the spec I need when the time comes.
 
FWIW, unless you made an appointment to be seen for a technical issue at the Genius Bar, you probably spoke to Specialists. Specialists sell things, Geniuses repair things.
 
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Applecare has saved me over a $1000 in repair costs for an almost 3 year old machine. It's worth it if you plan to keep the machine for 3 years.
 
I would give them the benefit of the doubt and say the genius was probably ignorant.
 
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ivan_x3000 said:
This was very insightful. However i still feel like i got fleeced. Who wants to spend $400 for extra memory when when in 2 years i i'm going to be spending another $500 upgrading to 1TB anyway. I'm highly considering using the 14 day money back guarantee or swapping. I really don't really like being lied to and i feel worse for not being more proactive. He actually tried to sell my dad one of those useless $250 dollar care plans, Dad went "Yes please!" and i was like "umm, hell no?"
Click to expand...
I'll weigh in on AppleCare as well I'm generally against extended warranties but find AC worthwhile, depending on how you use your machine. I use mine for business and if something goes wrong I need it fixed as quickly as possible and with AC can usually get same or next day service. To me that is worth every penny. For someone with a kid in college being able to have them take to the on campus reseller who is an Apple certified repair center is better than troubleshooting over the phone because I know they will fix it. Apple has even replace two of my machines with the newest models when they couldn't fix it in store. YMMV, and need to decide if the cost vs. peace of mind is worth it. There is no right choice, just what is best for you.

As for upgrading in a few years, for me it becomes a question of what a new machine costs and its performance and what you can sell you can get for your machine vs the upgrade cost. It was cost effective to put an SSD in my 2010 MBP, for my 2015 probably not. Again, YMMV.
 
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ivan_x3000 said:
Click to expand...

Transcend drives work on the 2012 and early-2013 models that use a SATA interface drive. Late-2013 onwards is a proprietary PCIe standard for which there are no drives available from third parties, or from Apple as upgrade parts.

Listen to what we're telling you instead of trying to get smart and outwit a community that have been providing this sort of information for years.
 
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RoboWarriorSr said:
That doesn't apply to the 2015 models since Apple made a new proprietary connecter starting with the 2015 macbook air. It took the Haswell model quite a while before viable upgrades became available that are both expensive and slow compared to the original SSDs. The only option right is to rip one from another laptop but that's ridiculous on it's own since it would be much cheaper BTO (if one were to do that, it's a whole another issue there).
Click to expand...

The PCIe drives have been around since the Late-2013 retina MacBook Pros. Still no third party option over two years later. ;)
 
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