Didn't like the screen on 2013 11 inch

[racer1441]

Thats really odd.

Alright then.

 

[mac82]

Did you read my post? I have better then 20/20 vision, i need to for my job and im required to get regular eye checkups. I think you are convincing yourself you are seeing pixels. Perhaps you need to get your eyes checked?

I did read your post. Whenever a discussion on screen quality comes up on these boards, EVERYONE has 20/20 vision. 20/20 is nothing to brag about; it just means you have normal acuity. Better than 20/20 is a rather loose description. 20/18? 20/16? 20/14? I don't know why you can't see the pixelation, the jagged edges, the slightly fuzzy icons. I can. And when you put a MBA next to a rMBP, so can most people. That's why most of the people who use a retina iPhone or iPad or MBP for the first time have an OOOOH moment where they're just blown away by the quality of the screen. I think we've been looking at low res screens for so many years that many of us have just come to accept poor quality, even when presented with significantly better quality, as being good enough. Do you really think Apple and other companies would have invested the small fortune they did in R&D on screens with only a 'minimal' difference to existing technology? Why bother if most people could not even tell the difference from normal viewing distances?

 

[falconeight]

I did read your post. Whenever a discussion on screen quality comes up on these boards, EVERYONE has 20/20 vision. 20/20 is nothing to brag about; it just means you have normal acuity. Better than 20/20 is a rather loose description. 20/18? 20/16? 20/14? I don't know why you can't see the pixelation, the jagged edges, the slightly fuzzy icons. I can. And when you put a MBA next to a rMBP, so can most people. That's why most of the people who use a retina iPhone or iPad or MBP for the first time have an OOOOH moment where they're just blown away by the quality of the screen. I think we've been looking at low res screens for so many years that many of us have just come to accept poor quality, even when presented with significantly better quality, as being good enough. Do you really think Apple and other companies would have invested the small fortune they did in R&D on screens with only a 'minimal' difference to existing technology? Why bother if most people could not even tell the difference from normal viewing distances?

Haha that is one of the funniest posts ever written.

 

[Beau10]

Apparently it can't be easily proven, at least not by you. A quick trip to the apple website's MacBook Pro technical specs page will show you that the classic MBP has a 63.5W battery, while the rMBP has a 74W battery. This is the only reason the rMBP has comparable battery life to the classic MBP. It has a larger, thicker battery. Putting a retina screen in the Air would involve making it thicker, which apple definitely doesn't want to do.

Some BOTE calcs:

74/63.5 = 1.165 = 16.5% larger - non-retina -> retina for the Ivy MBP.

12/7 = 1.714 = 71.5% increase in battery life for Ivy -> Haswell for MBA.

Seems like there's quite a bit of slack. Keep in mind this is the 4th gen of this device in its current form factor, and the first time Apple has advertised an increase in battery life - there was no screaming market need to almost double its running time between charges. They could have easily gotten both a significant increase in battery life *and* retina. Cost/yield/packaging/marketing sure, but battery life isn't the bottleneck.

Note that battery size actually did increase on the Haswell MBAs ~8%, but it seems Apple was taking advantage of component reduction elsewhere - same dimensions/weight.

 

[torana355]

I did read your post. Whenever a discussion on screen quality comes up on these boards, EVERYONE has 20/20 vision. 20/20 is nothing to brag about; it just means you have normal acuity. Better than 20/20 is a rather loose description. 20/18? 20/16? 20/14? I don't know why you can't see the pixelation, the jagged edges, the slightly fuzzy icons. I can. And when you put a MBA next to a rMBP, so can most people. That's why most of the people who use a retina iPhone or iPad or MBP for the first time have an OOOOH moment where they're just blown away by the quality of the screen. I think we've been looking at low res screens for so many years that many of us have just come to accept poor quality, even when presented with significantly better quality, as being good enough. Do you really think Apple and other companies would have invested the small fortune they did in R&D on screens with only a 'minimal' difference to existing technology? Why bother if most people could not even tell the difference from normal viewing distances?

My last test i was 20/15 but that really is aside the point, the point is NOBODY can make out pixels on a 13 MBA at arms length, not unless you have superhuman vision.

 

[falconeight]

My last test i was 20/15 but that really is aside the point, the point is NOBODY can make out pixels on a 13 MBA at arms length, not unless you have superhuman vision.

Yes you can make out the pixels on a mac air and at any length. Its a very pixeled screen so is the ipad mini.

 

[jread]

Yes you can make out the pixels on a mac air and at any length. Its a very pixeled screen so is the ipad mini.

You really can. Not only the pixels but the colors are very bland and washed out as well.

I am returning my new MBA and either getting the current 13" rMBP or possibly waiting for the refresh. I just can't stand the MBA screen at all. I am too spoiled to the retina screens and I can't force myself to go backward. I went and looked at the rMBP in the store today, set it next to my MBA, went to the same sites on both to look at photos/text... there is absolutely no comparison at all (the 13" also isn't that much bigger or bulkier than my 11" MBA). It was an easy decision to make.

 

[falconeight]

You really can. Not only the pixels but the colors are very bland and washed out as well.

I am returning my new MBA and either getting the current 13" rMBP or possibly waiting for the refresh. I just can't stand the MBA screen at all. I am too spoiled to the retina screens and I can't force myself to go backward. I went and looked at the rMBP in the store today, set it next to my MBA, went to the same sites on both to look at photos/text... there is absolutely no comparison at all (the 13" also isn't that much bigger or bulkier than my 11" MBA). It was an easy decision to make.

Good move, I like that the rMBP is slimmer but its smaller. I hate the giant old school bezel around the air.

 

[jread]

Good move, I like that the rMBP is slimmer but its smaller. I hate the giant old school bezel around the air.

BTW, do you play any games on your rMBP? I have heard many people say it is underpowered, but I was wondering how it runs games like Starcraft 2 for instance.

 

[falconeight]

BTW, do you play any games on your rMBP? I have heard many people say it is underpowered, but I was wondering how it runs games like Starcraft 2 for instance.

I play modern combat, lets golf 2, and real racing 2. I think they look and play great. Im not a big gamer though.

 

[Dr Charter]

I sold my 13 inch rMBP for a new 11 inch air. I had an 2011 Air previously but really wanted a retina laptop. The screen was great but the portability and extra battery life of the new Air tempted me. It's nice to be able to throw the MBA in a bag full of books again and not feel a difference.

I found that I don't care about the screen as much as I thought I did. I hook it up to a ATD at home, and I just get lost in my work when typing on this in the office. I wouldn't say I love the screen but I love everything else about this computer.

That said, if retina comes to the Air next year, I'm a buyer and a family member is getting a hand me down.

 

[falconeight]

I sold my 13 inch rMBP for a new 11 inch air. I had an 2011 Air previously but really wanted a retina laptop. The screen was great but the portability and extra battery life of the new Air tempted me. It's nice to be able to throw the MBA in a bag full of books again and not feel a difference.

I found that I don't care about the screen as much as I thought I did. I hook it up to a ATD at home, and I just get lost in my work when typing on this in the office. I wouldn't say I love the screen but I love everything else about this computer.

That said, if retina comes to the Air next year, I'm a buyer and a family member is getting a hand me down.

The 11 air definitely rocks if portability is king. I wish I could live with its screen because I love its size, weight, and battery life.

 

[falconeight]

I can't see to much of a portability argument for the 13 inch air when compared to the retina though.

 

[elchorizo]

you must have the eyes of a hawk, to see the pixels. either that or you sit with your face 6 inches from the screen.
the 11" had a great screen with a high dpi, at normal viewing distance you cant see pixelation at all. its all in your mind because youve decided it will be crap before you even opened it, thanks to your retina.

ill agree the colours arent as good as the pro's though.

Man, I don't understand posts like these at all. I had an 11" MBA and loved it, but the screen was noticeably poorer than my rMBP that I use for work. After staring at the retina screen all day, and using my iPad3 at home, its VERY easy to notice the crappy screens on the MBAs. At least it was on mine. The letters looked so jaggy by comparison. The pixelation of the typeface stood out like crazy, and I sat at a normal distance from the machine most of the time. Additionally, my vision is pretty far from 20/20! I guess what I'm saying is that its one thing to say you notice the poor screen but are ok with it (as I was) but its quit another to say people can't/shouldn't notice it at all!

Now, I'm not saying its unusable, far from it. Like I said, I loved my MBA even with the crappy screen. I agree with others in this thread that it is the only thing holding back the MBA from being the perfect laptop, especially now that they have that sick ass battery life with the Haswell refresh!

I think it would be technically difficult to put a retina screen in the MBA (battery life and form factor would make it it hard I assume) but there is no reason (that I know of) they couldn't switch to an IPS display and make it higher resolution (again, not necessarily retina).

Retina has spoiled me as it has others. Now I much prefer high quality high resolution displays. Seeing the capabilities of other machines out there, its hard to understand why Apple hasn't improved these MBA displays yet

 

[falconeight]

Man, I don't understand posts like these at all. I had an 11" MBA and loved it, but the screen was noticeably poorer than my rMBP that I use for work. After staring at the retina screen all day, and using my iPad3 at home, its VERY easy to notice the crappy screens on the MBAs. At least it was on mine. The letters looked so jaggy by comparison. The pixelation of the typeface stood out like crazy, and I sat at a normal distance from the machine most of the time. Additionally, my vision is pretty far from 20/20! I guess what I'm saying is that its one thing to say you notice the poor screen but are ok with it (as I was) but its quit another to say people can't/shouldn't notice it at all!

Now, I'm not saying its unusable, far from it. Like I said, I loved my MBA even with the crappy screen. I agree with others in this thread that it is the only thing holding back the MBA from being the perfect laptop, especially now that they have that sick ass battery life with the Haswell refresh!

I think it would be technically difficult to put a retina screen in the MBA (battery life and form factor would make it it hard I assume) but there is no reason (that I know of) they couldn't switch to an IPS display and make it higher resolution (again, not necessarily retina).

Retina has spoiled me as it has others. Now I much prefer high quality high resolution displays. Seeing the capabilities of other machines out there, its hard to understand why Apple hasn't improved these MBA displays yet

They did! They made the battery last longer so that you can stare at the terrible screen for longer periods of time.

 

[palpatine]

The screen on the MBA sucks. It always has, even before the advent of retina. It was washed out and blurry when it came out, and it still is. No surprises here. I still bought it

The trade off is obvious: long battery life and a crappy screen or short battery life (maybe more weight) and retina. I'm happy either way, because there are benefits to both. I have no interest in touch screens on my laptop (thanks to the brilliant Apple trackpad + gesture system), so I guess that is one point in Apple's favor no matter which way it would have gone.

Just having spent the entire day without an outlet (I haven't taken the charger out of the house since I got the MBA) I am currently liking the choice that Apple made. This is great, and if I want to read a novel or something, I'll just use my iPad. Now that has one heck of a beautiful display.

 

[DisplacedMic]

Did you read my post? I have better then 20/20 vision, i need to for my job and im required to get regular eye checkups. I think you are convincing yourself you are seeing pixels. Perhaps you need to get your eyes checked?

out of nothing other than curiosity, what job requires that you have better than 20/20 vision?

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I can't see to much of a portability argument for the 13 inch air when compared to the retina though.

this i agree with 100%.
i walked into the store convinced i wanted the 13" mba but i really didn't feel any difference between that and the rMBP. while i think the MBA is a better deal in terms of what you get for your dollar and i don't like A-1st gen tech or B-that the re is no dedicated GPU on the rMBP, it is undoubtedly a superior computer.

at .5 lb heavier and a smaller footprint it is every bit as portable as the 13.

 

[mattferg]

I did read your post. Whenever a discussion on screen quality comes up on these boards, EVERYONE has 20/20 vision. 20/20 is nothing to brag about; it just means you have normal acuity. Better than 20/20 is a rather loose description. 20/18? 20/16? 20/14? I don't know why you can't see the pixelation, the jagged edges, the slightly fuzzy icons. I can. And when you put a MBA next to a rMBP, so can most people. That's why most of the people who use a retina iPhone or iPad or MBP for the first time have an OOOOH moment where they're just blown away by the quality of the screen. I think we've been looking at low res screens for so many years that many of us have just come to accept poor quality, even when presented with significantly better quality, as being good enough. Do you really think Apple and other companies would have invested the small fortune they did in R&D on screens with only a 'minimal' difference to existing technology? Why bother if most people could not even tell the difference from normal viewing distances?

Err dude you do realise the PPI difference between the retina and non retina iOS devices is much higher than that of the MBA 13 vs rMBP 13, right?

 

[falconeight]

Err dude you do realise the PPI difference between the retina and non retina iOS devices is much higher than that of the MBA 13 vs rMBP 13, right?

You are correct although if you go look at a MBA and a MBP pro side by side the MBP looks better. Not by much but it looks better. "EDIT" I am sorry I defended the MBP's screen. It is terrible, I just looked at my wife's and it made me ill.

 

[mattferg]

You are correct although if you go look at a MBA and a MBP pro side by side the MBP looks better. Not by much but it looks better. "EDIT" I am sorry I defended the MBP's screen. It is terrible, I just looked at my wife's and it made me ill.

Yeah obviously, it's a more expensive panel for a more expensive laptop Which is one of the reasons I personally doubt whether retina in it's current form will ever come to the Air. There'd be too little different between the two models.

I either see the current 13 needing some form of massive upgrade to stay relevant if they bring out a 13 rMBA, like Iris + ports + something else killer, or they'll kill off the 13 rMBA dream, and just have 11 rMBA being the only air, the 13 rMB, and the 15 rMBP

And yes, the 13 cMBP is by far the worst Apple display at the minute, unless they're still selling the iPad 2.

 

[falconeight]

Yeah obviously, it's a more expensive panel for a more expensive laptop Which is one of the reasons I personally doubt whether retina in it's current form will ever come to the Air. There'd be too little different between the two models.

I either see the current 13 needing some form of massive upgrade to stay relevant if they bring out a 13 rMBA, like Iris + ports + something else killer, or they'll kill off the 13 rMBA dream, and just have 11 rMBA being the only air, the 13 rMB, and the 15 rMBP

And yes, the 13 cMBP is by far the worst Apple display at the minute, unless they're still selling the iPad 2.

I don't think it necessarily needs a retina just a better one that it has now. I wouldn't pay $1200 plus to get a screen from 2007.

 

[mattferg]

I don't think it necessarily needs a retina just a better one that it has now. I wouldn't pay $1200 plus to get a screen from 2007.

Problem is if you put something higher-res in there stuff starts getting so small as to impair usability, because OS X is rubbish with scaling - hence why all retina resolutions are just double whatever they were before, they just increase the pixel density.

 

[falconeight]

Problem is if you put something higher-res in there stuff starts getting so small as to impair usability, because OS X is rubbish with scaling - hence why all retina resolutions are just double whatever they were before, they just increase the pixel density.

I can play with the scaling on my pro and it always looks great.

 

[mattferg]

I can play with the scaling on my pro and it always looks great.

Yeah... because your pro can double the resolution

 

[palpatine]

I don't think it necessarily needs a retina just a better one that it has now. I wouldn't pay $1200 plus to get a screen from 2007.

I'd pay $899 (Best Buy Education discount) to get the smallest/lightest Mac computer with a battery life that is longer than most other laptops, regardless of their size. It seems fair to me