Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Digital Media Device?

I like julzmans' idea. We have always talked about something like this in our house. Beyond the Apple apps, what if something like the Playstation 2, Gamecube or that other game box could wirelessly connect to your TV to another room.

I think something like this device could make people want to buy more game boxes.

Watching DVD's, slideshows, etc from the computer wireless to a TV anywhere in the house would really rock!

From an earlier show, didn't Phillips make it sound like they would be putting some of this technology (rendezvous) into their future versions of TV's? Julzmans' device could be more of an adapter to facilitate the technology until it becomes commonplace.
 
Re: Sounds cool...but...

Originally posted by Timothy
S
I already own a Tivo, and that too, was a life-changing piece of tech. It's great; if you don't have one yet, get it, and you won't look back. The only thing left, for me, related to the Tivo is the ability to burn a DVD to back up or save programs. I expect this will happen in the next couple of years, combinbing a DVD-R drive into the Tivo unit. That will solve that...
Click to expand...

Isn't Tivo's default resolution the same as VCD's? 320x240 - at which case you could burn to a VCD with your CD writer to play on your DVD player. Maybe mpeg 4 will allow better quality recording to hard drive at full resolution...
 
Re: Re: Sounds cool...but...

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


Isn't Tivo's default resolution the same as VCD's? 320x240
Click to expand...

Well, NTSC video is 768 x 480, which includes overscan (the areas on the top, bottom, left and right that are considered not-safe for vital information). The interface may be uninterlaced at 320 x 200 (half of the 640 x 400 safe area when interlaced), but when it's over a video signal it is composited on top of a 768 x 480. That's when you can see flicker, etc.
 
Re: Re: this is it

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


I didn't think Airport had enough bandwith to transmit full screen audio/video....
Click to expand...

DVD is typically around 6 Mbps (million bits per second, not bytes). 802.11b typically grants around 3-4Mbps after overhead is taken into account. So, no, the bandwidth isn't there on your typical 802.11b connection.

802.11g connections would give around the right bandwidth (8-10 Mbps on current hardware, and that number should go up as hardware matures), but the big stumbling block remains the same as what kept 802.11b from hosting MP3 parties en masse: there is no prioritization or quality of service in WiFi of any currrent flavor. Which means, while you may well get 8Mbps through the pipe, that doesn't mean that in any one second you will get anywhere near 8Mb through. Without massive buffering on both ends, this leads to periodic "skips" and freezes that most home theater fanatics would find abolutey inexcusable.

Also note that a 10baseT ethernet connection, delivering a real rate of 9.8-10Mbps (the "10" is based on the data transmission, not data+overhead transmission, rate), is a far better choice if you can manage it. 100 and giga-bit ethernet of course provide far more than the required bandwidths, and QOS paradigms are quickly maturing there to keep the resulting stream skip and freeze free.

Also, remember that HDTV compressed video using current hardware typically uses about 25Mbps, which is far out of reach of any 802.11* wireless technology today.
 
Re: Airport 2

Originally posted by chubakka
the 802.11g... 4 to 5 times faster (theoretically than 802.11b)...
Click to expand...

But, today, realistically, is ~2 times faster (8-10Mbps instead of 3-4Mbps). Maturing hardware might get it up to 4x faster or maybe beyond, but that's not the reality today.
 
Re: 802.11g get better range?

Originally posted by frankenm
So there will obviously be an 802.11g airport device coming. My question is if that will have a better range than the current version. I know it promises to offer more bandwidth, but what about range?
Click to expand...

Current 802.11g devices have slightly better range than 802.11b devices, but not much so. Much more important is the design of the antenna, which directly and dramatically affects range.
 
Re: Re: Re: Sounds cool...but...

Originally posted by Frobozz


Well, NTSC video is 768 x 480, which includes overscan (the areas on the top, bottom, left and right that are considered not-safe for vital information). The interface may be uninterlaced at 320 x 200 (half of the 640 x 400 safe area when interlaced), but when it's over a video signal it is composited on top of a 768 x 480. That's when you can see flicker, etc.
Click to expand...

Then it's different from EyeTV Tivo for Mac, which records at 320 x 240....

Specs
 
If apple brought out 802.11g Airport what would that mean to someone with 802.11b. Would I have to get shot of my existing basestation and cards, and buy new, replace just the cards or would a firmware upgrade do the trick. Anyone have any info on this?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sounds cool...but...

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


Then it's different from EyeTV Tivo for Mac, which records at 320 x 240....

Specs
Click to expand...

Correct. But that device is constrained to 320x240 by the USB interface, not by the broadcast resolution or technology available to a set-top Tivo box.

Being a fairly new Tivo owner myself (actually the Dish network's PVR, not sure who builds it), I can say with absolute certainty that the resolution is better than VHS (320x200-ish, interlaced to 640x400-ish).

Also, the figure for broadcast resolution need a footnote. There is no "horizontal" (left to right) resolution in NTSC or PAL. These are analog standards, and so the "horizontal" resolution is precisely how frequently the device samples the signal. However, the 768x480 resolution gives the right aspect ratio on a computer screen, and so that is what is used. The vertical resolution is fixed in both NTSC and PAL, although different television sets will show different numbers of scan lines (which is why you'll rarely see channels broadcast with important information right at the edges of the screen; the majority of sets sold crop as much as 10% of the screen horizontally and vertically!) Also note (finally) that "horizontal lines of resolution" is often used as the unit for vertical (top-to-bottom) resolution, not to be confused with horizontal resolution ...

Pedantic mode off.
 
Re: TV-to-go?

Originally posted by dongmin

Useful:
4. portable video-phone/video-conferencing device
[/B]
Click to expand...

Video phones and video conferencing useful?

Then why is it that countless "picture phones" that have been introduced since the 1980s have never caught on?

Then why is Internet video conferencing, while the technology isn't bad these days a lot more popular than audio calls?

The truth is that the addition of video adds very little to a phone conversation and most people would rather not be seen while they're on the phone. In my opinion, a portable video-phone would be the biggest flop of all.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sounds cool...but...

Originally posted by jettredmont

I can say with absolute certainty that the resolution is better than VHS (320x200-ish, interlaced to 640x400-ish).
Click to expand...

hmm... I was under the impression that both VHS and DVD's resolution were native NTSC 720x486, but the nature of VHS gave us video noise and grit that is not present in DVDs. I have a rendered movie that I originally had output to VHS and I recently recorded to a VCD (320x240). Playing them synched up, VHS's superior resolution was evident, as were the smooth, grain-free colors of the VCD. The VCD also had superior sound. I'd burn an SVCD if my DVD player could play it. Someday I'll burn a DVD to see it in all it's glory!! (or glaring mistakes I hadn't noticed on VHS)...
 
Re: Re: TV-to-go?

Originally posted by Kid Red


You are forgetting an iPod type device that could sync with iPhoto and store photos, sync with iMovie and store video, and play all the same on your TV along with plug into your stereo and play tunes synced from iTunes...
Click to expand...

i think this sounds very believable... the size of an iPod or a bit bigger (HAS to fit in your pocket i.e. "ultraportable") and with a colour screen covering one whole side for viewing on the device itself. Also allowing you to download right from a digital camera, so it acts as a digital wallet too.
 
Personal Video Recorder -- yes!

Portable Video Player -- why?

To play mp4s on a ipod-sized device would require a lot of technology (bigger screen, mp4 decoder, graphics chip??, bigger battery, bigger hard drive). I don't know what you get out of it in return is worth it.
 
Originally posted by James.Paul
If apple brought out 802.11g Airport what would that mean to someone with 802.11b. Would I have to get shot of my existing basestation and cards, and buy new, replace just the cards or would a firmware upgrade do the trick. Anyone have any info on this?
Click to expand...

Well, 802.11g devices will support 802.11b transmissions, so you can update devices one at a time (although don't expect 11g throughput until both sides of the connection have been uupdated!).

As for how you'll update devices... No knowledge here, but I would guess that replacing the Airport card in previous models would be all that would be required for 802.11g. I don't think a firmware update could do it; sorry! But, I also don't see why the existing 802.11b antennae couldn't be repurposed for 802.11g without modification, so i thin kthe card swap-in would be all that would be required.

As for Airport base stations ... I'm not sure if there is a card to swap out there or not, although that would have been pretty forward-thinking and cool of Apple to do. I suspect the entire base station will have to be replaced with the 802.11g variant.
 
Re: Re: TV-to-go?

Originally posted by Kid Red


You are forgetting an iPod type device that could sync with iPhoto and store photos, sync with iMovie and store video, and play all the same on your TV along with plug into your stereo and play tunes synced from iTunes with visuals on the tv.
Click to expand...

Amen. My credit card is ready and I will give my iPod away in a heartbeat for your vPod.
John
who is amazed by iMovie/iDVD and how the snow in Boston is now going up (must be snowing in hell)
 
new device and isync

if there is a new digital device it sure will be synced with your mac by isync. apple just released the final version of isync. if there is a new device, then somewhere in the isync "code" have to be a hint (graphic or text) to the new device. someone found the new symbols for video and mic in ichat.... i don't think apple will release tomorrow another newer version of isync. get the point?
 
Anyone heard?

What's going on with the co. that Woz's involved with, Danger? Did they ever release the hiptop? Could there be collaboration of old? Are the dynamic duo meeting in secret underground labs to put something together for us? Stay tuned!! Same Bat time, same bat channel!
 
I betcha...

...That xfering DVDs wont be an advertised feature, it will be a wink wink nudge nudge kinda thing. Like Itunes, we give you the ability to play back music.. we dont ask where you get it from.. and the version of imovie released at the same time will have a export to vpod option, and it will be up to 3rd parties to make a dvd-vpod utility (which wont take too much work using what is out there)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sounds cool...but...

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


hmm... I was under the impression that both VHS and DVD's resolution were native NTSC 720x486, but the nature of VHS gave us video noise and grit that is not present in DVDs.
Click to expand...

Nope. "Standard" VHS (not SVHS) resolution per field is 240 lines vertically "per screen width"*, which means on a 4:3 TV screen, you show around 180 lines of resolution (interlaced, so that you actually end up with 360 lines displayed). SVHS (and Hi8 mini-cassettes) I believe brings VHS up to full NTSC resolution (400 lines per screen width, interlaced).

References:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41045,00.html (4th paragraph down)
http://www.htexplained.com/abridged/Chap 6.htm
Or check the specs on a VCR (this from Toshiba; skip down to the technical specs at the bottom of the page ...): http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/dvd/current/SDV280_detail.html


* Note that "per screen width" seems weaselly, but is necessary when talking about NTSC broadcasts. Because there are a set number of lines before and after each frame dedicated to "overband" information, the NTSC broadcast "frame" is essentially square (though not quite). Once the "visible" portion of the broadcast is sampled down to VHS resolution, (the overband information can not be so compressed without much more intelligence than a late-1970s device would contain), the resulting image does end up quite "square". So, VHS stores 240 lines of information, which is the "overband" data plus 180 lines of visual information per field (2 fields per frame).


I have a rendered movie that I originally had output to VHS and I recently recorded to a VCD (320x240). Playing them synched up, VHS's superior resolution was evident, as were the smooth, grain-free colors of the VCD. The VCD also had superior sound. I'd burn an SVCD if my DVD player could play it. Someday I'll burn a DVD to see it in all it's glory!! (or glaring mistakes I hadn't noticed on VHS)...
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Not sure about VCD (MPEG-1), but you have to remember that VHS is interlaced, so 180 lines vertically mean that in a single "frame" you will have 360 distinct lines. This makes it appear more detailed than a non-interlaced 320x240 image, and not any more jumpy (although the theoretical frame rate is lower, frames "blur" together because only half a frame's lines are updated at once).
 
Re: Anyone heard?

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
What's going on with the co. that Woz's involved with, Danger? Did they ever release the hiptop? Could there be collaboration of old? Are the dynamic duo meeting in secret underground labs to put something together for us? Stay tuned!! Same Bat time, same bat channel!
Click to expand...

No mon, Woz's company is Wheels of Zeus (WoZ). Danger is a completely different company that produced their hiptop (www.danger.com). Check out their very cool Flash demo. Now available throughout the US.

I'd love to see Apple produce something like this, but with all the DLD features that others have mentioned here...including a funky cool bluetooth earpiece that pops out from the unit for making phone calls. Sweeeeet....
 
Re: Anyone heard?

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
What's going on with the co. that Woz's involved with, Danger? Did they ever release the hiptop? Could there be collaboration of old? Are the dynamic duo meeting in secret underground labs to put something together for us? Stay tuned!! Same Bat time, same bat channel!
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha!! :D

And so it comes full circle....

How's this: Wheels Of Zeus acquired by Apple, Woz joins Apple design team, and MWSF showcases one or more radical new wireless mobile devices that are a result of the collaboration. It could happen!
 
Does it necessarily have to be "ultra-portable"?

Couldn't it conceivably be portable around the house (or more specifically within range of it's Bluetooth-enabled base-station)?

Why do people want to carry around a tiny video screen with them? I look at the Archos product, as well as a few others, and I think that yes, perhaps there is a market for that but a tiny one. This can't be what Apple is staking their year on.

I still have a hard time understanding how a video-phone would be useful (not to mention successful).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back