All Devices Disable Background activity iOS 13 and maybe iOS 12 not working

[odoy]

I have turned off Background Activity totally on my device and when I look at the quarry log of my Pihole i see a lot of requests of closed Apps. WhatApp, Shazam, Airbnb etc.

Is this a bug or does this function never worked?

Whats your experience?

 

[C DM]

I have turned off Background Activity totally on my device and when I look at the quarry log of my Pihole i see a lot of requests of closed Apps. WhatApp, Shazam, Airbnb etc.

Is this a bug or does this function never worked?

Whats your experience?

Do those items in the logs relate to background refresh activities? Also, what do you mean by "closed apps"?

Background refresh only relates to some aspects of apps being able to do certain things in the background, there's a much bigger piece of background functionality that is built into the OS and isn't controllable by the user. There are also things related to notifications which are connected to apps but will also work regardless of whether the app is being used, or has recently been used, or anything like that.

 

[odoy]

I always thought if background activity is disabled, the app does really nothing. but even apps which are since months closed like airbnb are talkative and communicate to their home server. I've expected another behavior and it seems to be wrong communicated to the user.

for me there is just pregnant or not pregnant, nothing between

btw. is this new? SCREENSHOTS != PNG

 

[Krevnik]

I always thought if background activity is disabled, the app does really nothing. but even apps which are since months closed like airbnb are talkative and communicate to their home server. I've expected another behavior and it seems to be wrong communicated to the user.

Yeah, the problem is "Background Refresh" is a specific feature, versus other ways apps can get time while in the background. VOIP, Geofencing, Audio playback, and Push Notifications aren't really considered background refreshes. It doesn't make sense that VoIP or music playback breaks just because you turned off Background Refresh, does it? And many notifications don't even need the app to run, but some notifications can give the app CPU time (although I think these are counted as part of Background Refresh?). Location data is a little more awkward. It has its own toggle.

Some apps abuse this to get time on the CPU. Oh you moved a bit? Lemme just send some data back home too. It's one reason Apple is trying to crack down on what resources an app has access to if it is running in the background because of VOIP. But I think the background location data still leaves a bit of a hole. Part of the issue there is that if you have a hiking app tracking your hike, it really should have access to some resources in the background as it's logging the data. But that same thing can be used to dial home. And too many apps use it as a way to wake up in the background, IMO. I tend to shut off background location access unless there's a real need for it because of that.

Background refresh is a more general purpose way to get background time. It's more like "Oh, I had to wake up for this push notification... you, get some CPU time to go fetch your e-mails or something." It's also supposed to avoid giving CPU time to apps that you don't use very often, but instead give it to apps you use frequently like a 3rd party e-mail client, or an RSS reader.

I'm curious. Are you using a firewall to detect the apps phoning home?

 

[odoy]

I think we can't enlighten this here

first, I make a mistake not to hint at something.
when I talk about background activity, I mean activity of closed apps. apps, which are killed though the app switcher.
I don't associate it with apps, which are just put in the background with the home button.

those tasks like playback, calls or navigation run in the background and disabled background activity AND that's for me comprehensibly and okay.

i am just astonished why there is activity on totally closed apps.

Example:
I know when I disable background activity my podcast app will not download new episodes, but e.g. airbnb or songkick can communicate with their home server.

Are you using a firewall to detect the apps phoning home?

no, I use https://pi-hole.net and i can see what dns requests are sent from any device in my network

anyway. thanks for your interest

 

[lemimouth]

I noticed the same thing on my Pi-hole, some apps like Spotify and WhatsApp regularely "phone home" during the night, even if they are closed...

Maybe do they receive some hidden push notifications that wake them up ?

 

[Bawstun]

I am way too immature to be reading things like “I noticed the same thing on my Pi-hole” what?

 

[odoy]

I am way too immature to be reading things like “I noticed the same thing on my Pi-hole” what?

the same applies on comment things without to push conversation forward
much to learn you still have

 

[Krevnik]

those tasks like playback, calls or navigation run in the background and disabled background activity AND that's for me comprehensibly and okay.[/COLOR]

i am just astonished why there is activity on totally closed apps.

Example:
I know when I disable background activity my podcast app will not download new episodes, but e.g. airbnb or songkick can communicate with their home server.

That’s the crux though. They are using a loophole to get background time by saying “I want CPU time to process this location data”, and then use the CPU time to phone home.

Background Refresh being disabled doesn’t stop abuse of the background location API.

Closing an app doesn’t prevent the OS from relaunching it to handle this background traffic either.

 

[C DM]

That’s the crux though. They are using a loophole to get background time by saying “I want CPU time to process this location data”, and then use the CPU time to phone home.

Background Refresh being disabled doesn’t stop abuse of the background location API.

Closing an app doesn’t prevent the OS from relaunching it to handle this background traffic either.

Looks like iOS 13 is adding more warnings about background usage: What's New in iOS 13 Beta 6: Dark Mode Control Center Toggle, Folder Changes and More

 

[tamaralig]

I noticed the same thing on my Pi-hole, some apps like Spotify and WhatsApp regularely "phone home" during the night, even if they are closed...

Maybe do they receive some hidden push notifications that wake them up ?

And neither app is using iCloud for backups?

 

[lemimouth]

WhatsApp uses iCloud for backup, but not the other apps.

Location is disabled for these apps, too

 

[IowaLynn]

Upcoming iOS 13 VoIP Change That Restricts Background Access to Impact Facebook Messenger and WhatsApp.
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/08/06/ios-13-voip-background-access-changes/

 

[asus389]

The WalMart app abuses this like none other. It’s showing 9 minutes on screen and 3h34m background activity with background refresh turned off. No idea why... This is on iOS 13.5.

 

[verdi1987]

The WalMart app abuses this like none other. It’s showing 9 minutes on screen and 3h34m background activity with background refresh turned off. No idea why... This is on iOS 13.5.

I'm seeing similar behavior with The Washington Post and Slickdeals apps on multiple devices. I have Background App Refresh disabled on all of them. A full 60 of 60 minutes of each hour have activity, even while I am asleep. If I kill those apps it fixes it.

 

[C DM]

The WalMart app abuses this like none other. It’s showing 9 minutes on screen and 3h34m background activity with background refresh turned off. No idea why... This is on iOS 13.5.

Do you have location services enabled for the Walmart app?

 

[asus389]

Do you have location services enabled for the Walmart app?

yeah I think so...

 

[C DM]

yeah I think so...

That would likely be it as the app can be active in the background through location services (and in the Walmart app that is often used for location tracking in relation to pickup orders from the store).

 

[CTHarrryH]

I found a while ago - I had to turn on the general background app refresh then go into a variety of apps turn on and off individual refresh and then the general one again to really turn off. This seemed to particularly apply to newly installed apps that seemed to default to on even though general off - again this was a while ago

 

[C DM]

I found a while ago - I had to turn on the general background app refresh then go into a variety of apps turn on and off individual refresh and then the general one again to really turn off. This seemed to particularly apply to newly installed apps that seemed to default to on even though general off - again this was a while ago

As I understand, if the general setting is off, then it doesn't really matter what the individual app setting might have been or is set to as the general setting overrides that when it's set to off.

 

[verdi1987]

I found a while ago - I had to turn on the general background app refresh then go into a variety of apps turn on and off individual refresh and then the general one again to really turn off. This seemed to particularly apply to newly installed apps that seemed to default to on even though general off - again this was a while ago

So I just did this, and so far it seems to be working. I enabled Background App Refresh (BAR), manually toggled them all off, and then disabled BAR again. So far, I’m not seeing background activity. (For me, it was the same apps across several devices performing constant background activity.)

I’ll update later after I’ve had more time with BAR manually disabled. (There really needs to be a toggle all on/off for this setting.)

Edit: Upon further testing, manually toggling Background App Refresh off still does not completely stop background activity by some apps. It appears to be effective for some apps but not all, which is strange.

 

[Krevnik]

Edit: Upon further testing, manually toggling Background App Refresh off still does not completely stop background activity by some apps. It appears to be effective for some apps but not all, which is strange.

As pointed out above in the thread, background location services is separate from background refresh.

Many apps use the background location as a way to get CPU time without using the normal APIs. Some of it is even for location-based marketing nonsense: “Oh hey, I see you are near a Target, don’t-cha want some deals?”

Before background refresh was added, it was also the common way to do background updates despite it not being what it was meant for.

 

[verdi1987]

As pointed out above in the thread, background location services is separate from background refresh.

Many apps use the background location as a way to get CPU time without using the normal APIs. Some of it is even for location-based marketing nonsense: “Oh hey, I see you are near a Target, don’t-cha want some deals?”

I'm seeing an issue in apps for which Bluetooth, location services, and app refresh are denied or never requested.

Can apps still have background refresh with those settings disabled?

 

[C DM]

I'm seeing an issue in apps for which Bluetooth, location services, and app refresh are denied or never requested.

Can apps still have background refresh with those settings disabled?

There are a lot of different background capabilities (usually time limited, but not always), beyond background app refresh, that are offered by the OS itself and are not controllable by the user. Disabling a variety of capabilities related to an app can certainly decrease what might be available to an app, but not necessarily block everything (short of basically never using and app or just uninstalling it). Some of the earlier posts in this thread have some more details about it all.

 

[verdi1987]

There are a lot of different background capabilities (usually time limited, but not always), beyond background app refresh, that are offered by the OS itself and are not controllable by the user.

Thank you for the explanation.