Disadvantage of constantly using clamshell mode?

[whwang]

Hi,

I am probably among the very few people who are still using 100% intel Macs. With M4, I think it's time for me to switch to Apply Silicon.

Currently, I have two intel MacBook Pros. I use one of them for travel, and the other one at home with clamshell mode on my desk, connecting to an external 32" 4K monitor. I am thinking about replacing the desk one with an M4 Mac mini, and then getting another 14" M4 MacBook Pro for travel.

The alternative plan is to just get a 14" M4 MacBook Pro for both travel and desk (the latter with clamshell mode). Because my performance requirement (M4 Pro, at least 36GB of RAM, better 48 GB) is similar for the travel and home usage, I can't save money by picking an entry level model for either of them. The two have to be almost equally powerful. So getting just one to replace the two at the same time is obviously more cost-effective.

My question is, are there serious disadvantages using an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro in clamshell mode? I know heat dissipation can be an issue. I use a stand so the bottom can be exposed to more air. Is this enough? Can constantly using the laptop with its lid closed damage it? (For the intel MacBook Pro, I only use the clamshell mode in the last couple of years, which is near the end of its life. So I didn't care too much about any potential damage. For a new Apple Silicon Mac, the consider should be different.)

 

[tonywalker23]

have used an M1 Pro 14” in closed clamshell since august 22 and have had no problems. if I had to guess, 70–80% of the time has been closed. rarely use it open and even more rare does it leave my office. seems to be no problem for me. the only thing that may or may not be related ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the battery. I don’t remember now the details, but a while back year or more it seemed like the battery health dropped really quick then stopped at 87%. it has been 87% since then and hasn’t changed. I don’t know if that is due to being plugged in all the time or not. macOS is supposed to learn your habits and pause charging at 80%. I don’t know why but mine never learned and kept it at 100% for maybe a year or more. I never could figure out why but gave up. then all of a sudden maybe like I don’t know 6-8 months ago it just suddenly “learned” my habits, and now it always stays at 80% while plugged in. it seemed like I checked the cycle count recently and it was less than 200, I think around 150 if I remember correctly.

 

[Jim Lahey]

I once ran an Intel MacBook Pro in clamshell mode at vmax for about a month straight encoding 2160p HEVC video files. Fans were pegged at 100% velocity 24/7 the entire time. Not saying it wasn't detrimental in some way but it didn't blow up, and there's no reason to think the newer machines would do any worse. Biggest area of concern in my eyes is battery heat soak under sustained heavy load for days on end, but otherwise I think it'll be fine. The better question is probably; do I actually need a laptop in this role if the lid is never open?

 

[whwang]

I once ran an Intel MacBook Pro in clamshell mode at vmax for about a month straight encoding 2160p HEVC video files. Fans were pegged at 100% velocity 24/7 the entire time. Not saying it wasn't detrimental in some way but it didn't blow up, and there's no reason to think the newer machines would do any worse. Biggest area of concern in my eyes is battery heat soak under sustained heavy load for days on end, but otherwise I think it'll be fine. The better question is probably; do I actually need a laptop in this role if the lid is never open?

Thanks. If I don't have any need for portability, getting a Mac mini would make much more sense. However, I do need a laptop to work in different places or for travel. So a laptop is a must. Given this, the question is whether it makes financial sense to get an equally powerful Mac mini in addition to the laptop, or to just use the laptop in clamshell mode.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Thanks. If I don't have any need for portability, getting a Mac mini would make much more sense. However, I do need a laptop to work in different places or for travel. So a laptop is a must. Given this, the question is whether it makes financial sense to get an equally powerful Mac mini in addition to the laptop, or to just use the laptop in clamshell mode.

Tough call to make. If you decide to use a laptop in this role then two apps I'd consider looking into are AlDente (Pro) and Amphetamine. The former is mission critical for managing battery behaviour in a perma-connected MacBook. The latter is super useful for managing and customizing when macOS can and cannot sleep - a major boon when dealing with clamshell mode under certain conditions.

 

[Basic75]

I'd just get the laptop and limit the charge state to below 80% with AlDente when used at home. With the money you save from not getting the second computer you can easily get a replacement battery for the laptop if and when needed.

 

[throAU]

My question is, are there serious disadvantages using an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro in clamshell mode? I know heat dissipation can be an issue. I use a stand so the bottom can be exposed to more air. Is this enough? Can constantly using the laptop with its lid closed damage it? (For the intel MacBook Pro, I only use the clamshell mode in the last couple of years, which is near the end of its life. So I didn't care too much about any potential damage. For a new Apple Silicon Mac, the consider should be different.)

I've recently started using clamshell mode with my 14" Pros, and haven't noticed a significant detriment to cooling vs. not.

 

[whwang]

Thank you all the the replies. All very useful.

My intel Mac does sound louder (or sound loud more frequently) than used normally as a laptop, even on tasks that are supposed to be not that intensive. I suppose an Apple Silicon Mac should perform better. And the intel Mac (in clamshell mode or not) is almost always kept at 80% charged without me doing any extra setting. I am not sure if an Apple Silicon Mac behaves differently.

 

[raythompsontn]

The former is mission critical for managing battery behaviour in a perma-connected MacBook

Not even close. The current MacOS software will manage the battery just fine. Once the battery reaches 100% there is very little current applied to the battery. My friend has a MacBook connected to two monitors, in clamshell mode, hooked to power 24x7, for several years. His battery is in excellent condition.

 

[raythompsontn]

Currently, I have two intel MacBook Pros

In my opinion, it is time to upgrade to Apple Silicon. It is what I would do. You will get a significant increase in performance. Getting two laptops may not be a good idea. I would go for the Mac Mini as the desktop system and a 14" MacBook Pro as the traveling companion.

It is your money, your choice, just my opinion.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Not even close. The current MacOS software will manage the battery just fine.

Had this conversation a million times so I won't labor the point, but this is only true if you either never unplug it or have a totally rigid routine. Otherwise it simply does not work.

However, as OP has since stated that Optimized Charging works for them currently, then it will probably be fine going forward also. It never worked for me. Not once.

 

[glindon]

have used an M1 Pro 14” in closed clamshell since august 22 and have had no problems. if I had to guess, 70–80% of the time has been closed. rarely use it open and even more rare does it leave my office. seems to be no problem for me. the only thing that may or may not be related ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the battery. I don’t remember now the details, but a while back year or more it seemed like the battery health dropped really quick then stopped at 87%. it has been 87% since then and hasn’t changed. I don’t know if that is due to being plugged in all the time or not. macOS is supposed to learn your habits and pause charging at 80%. I don’t know why but mine never learned and kept it at 100% for maybe a year or more. I never could figure out why but gave up. then all of a sudden maybe like I don’t know 6-8 months ago it just suddenly “learned” my habits, and now it always stays at 80% while plugged in. it seemed like I checked the cycle count recently and it was less than 200, I think around 150 if I remember correctly.

My experience with Sequoia is that it will almost immediately learn to charge your Macbook to 80% if it's plugged in all the time. For instance, the MBA I got my mom, while not in clamshell, is hooked up to an external KB, mouse, and on a riser, and within a couple of days, it ran on battery until it reached 80% and has stayed there.
My MacBook Pro hooked up to a studio display also likes not to charge the battery fully since it's in clamshell most of the time. It's also pretty good at charging fully when it thinks I'll be needing it.

 

[daneoni]

I wouldnt run intel macs in clamshell mode because of heat. For Apple silicon macs it doesn't matter.

Fans rarely come on and when they do its usually low RPMs

And MacOS can limit charging to 80% for the battery

 

[whwang]

However, as OP has since stated that Optimized Charging works for them currently, then it will probably be fine going forward also. It never worked for me. Not once.

At this moment, I use one of my two MacBook Pros in clamshell mode and it's almost always plugged in. I use the other for travel. I guess this makes the usage case much simpler, and maybe this is not challenging for MacOS to manage. In the future, on the other hand, if I just get one M4 MacBook Pro for both portable use and clamshell mode on the desk, it will certainly be more challenging for MacOS to deal with. We can only wait and see.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Not even close. The current MacOS software will manage the battery just fine. Once the battery reaches 100% there is very little current applied to the battery. My friend has a MacBook connected to two monitors, in clamshell mode, hooked to power 24x7, for several years. His battery is in excellent condition.

Yes, Apple’s Optimised Battery Charging will manage the battery….if it works for you. OBC works by minimising time spent at 100% charge, when the cell voltage is highest and the chemical reactions which degrade the battery happen faster. Trickle charging at 100% is not an alternative to keeping it below 100% charge.

My MBAs are mostly plugged in all the time and in Clamshell mode. I tried OBC on my first two Silicon for several weeks but OBC never worked…it was on 100% charge the whole time. I moved to AlDente which has much more control. I haven’t tried OBC for a couple of years now, maybe it would work now, but I like AlDente.

 

[tonywalker23]

My experience with Sequoia is that it will almost immediately learn to charge your Macbook to 80% if it's plugged in all the time. For instance, the MBA I got my mom, while not in clamshell, is hooked up to an external KB, mouse, and on a riser, and within a couple of days, it ran on battery until it reached 80% and has stayed there.
My MacBook Pro hooked up to a studio display also likes not to charge the battery fully since it's in clamshell most of the time. It's also pretty good at charging fully when it thinks I'll be needing it.

I don’t remember the exact time, but it might line up with sequoia, when my mbp started staying at 80%. nothing changed in my setup hardware wise.

 

[hovscorpion12]

are there serious disadvantages using an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro in clamshell mode?

You miss out on that gorgeous keyboard and LED display.

In all seriousness, not really.

 

[whwang]

You miss out on that gorgeous keyboard and LED display.

In all seriousness, not really.

Good point, actually. I am less certain about the keyboard. But I will definitely love the new display.

Fortunately if I do get a MacBook Pro for clamshell mode, that would imply I will also use it for mobile usages. So I still get to enjoy them. If I love the display that much, maybe I will give up the clamshell mode, run the MacBook Pro with an open lid, and replace my current 32" 4K with something that can match to the MacBook Pro display.

 

[Wayward]

Optimized battery charging has been fine on my 16" M3 Max. I don't use clamshell mode much, but I keep it plugged in most all the time.

 

[MisterSavage]

have used an M1 Pro 14” in closed clamshell since august 22 and have had no problems. if I had to guess, 70–80% of the time has been closed.

Same. This really isn't anything OP needs to worry about IMO.

 

[Jaw3000]

I had an Intel MacBook Pro a few years ago that I started using frequently in clamshell mode with a 32” 4k display. After about a year like this, I noticed the MacBook wasn’t sitting completely flat on the desk anymore. I didn’t really think too much about it until I noticed the lid not shutting tightly. The battery had expanded and bent the bottom and the top of the case. It actually pushed the keyboard into the screen, putting a big hole in the screen coating right in the middle of the display. It was just out of AppleCare coverage, and I had to stop using the MacBook at this point. I also noticed a new spot on the bottom of the display that looked like multiple burst pixels, which I’ve always wondered if it was due to heat.

Anyway, this has made me very paranoid about heat, the battery, and the durability of the screen coating. I think twice anytime I have to do something high performance like encoding because of heat. I don’t want to use clamshell mode because of heat, even though I’d like to at times. I tend to leave the display open to improve air flow rather than closing it for sleep or clamshell mode. And every time I have to wipe dust off or clean the screen, I’m worried the screen coating is going to scratch and peel. The coating has done just that on a different MacBook Air. It’s really fragile.

I’m debating now between a MacBook Pro 16” M4 (Pro or Max) and a Mac Mini M4 Pro. I don’t need both, but each one has its pros a and cons. All of this makes me wonder if a Mac Mini isn’t better (durability and longevity) for high or moderate performance usage than a MacBook Pro (especially a Max, since it runs even hotter). None of these things would be an issue with the Mini. Especially if you primarily use a Mac at a desk or leave it plugged in most of the time like me. But then you wouldn’t have the wonderful HDR display or the portability when you want it (even if that’s just around the house and on trips).

 

[MisterSavage]

I had an Intel MacBook Pro a few years ago that I started using frequently in clamshell mode with a 32” 4k display. After about a year like this, I noticed the MacBook wasn’t sitting completely flat on the desk anymore. I didn’t really think too much about it until I noticed the lid not shutting tightly. The battery had expanded and bent the bottom and the top of the case. It actually pushed the keyboard into the screen, putting a big hole in the screen coating right in the middle of the display. It was just out of AppleCare coverage, and I had to stop using the MacBook at this point. I also noticed a new spot on the bottom of the display that looked like multiple burst pixels, which I’ve always wondered if it was due to heat.

Anyway, this has made me very paranoid about heat, the battery, and the durability of the screen coating. I think twice anytime I have to do something high performance like encoding because of heat. I don’t want to use clamshell mode because of heat, even though I’d like to at times. I tend to leave the display open to improve air flow rather than closing it for sleep or clamshell mode. And every time I have to wipe dust off or clean the screen, I’m worried the screen coating is going to scratch and peel. The coating has done just that on a different MacBook Air. It’s really fragile.

I’m debating now between a MacBook Pro 16” M4 (Pro or Max) and a Mac Mini M4 Pro. I don’t need both, but each one has its pros a and cons. All of this makes me wonder if a Mac Mini isn’t better (durability and longevity) for high or moderate performance usage than a MacBook Pro (especially a Max, since it runs even hotter). None of these things would be an issue with the Mini. Especially if you primarily use a Mac at a desk or leave it plugged in most of the time like me. But then you wouldn’t have the wonderful HDR display or the portability when you want it (even if that’s just around the house and on trips).

That's happened to me before a long time ago with an Intel Macbook and they repaired my Macbook even though it was just outside of AppleCare coverage (that had recently expired).

I've been using my M1 Pro heavily in clamshell mode 99% of the time for development work. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[NeonNights]

I've tried Al Dente and I've also left it to MacOS to optimize the battery. Apple's battery optimization algorithms didn't reduce battery charge to 80% very often but I decided to just continue to let MacOS handle it. After 13 months I'm at 36 cycles and still 100% battery health.