I was with you up to this point. I don't think SDTV needs to linger like cassette tapes since owners of SDTVs can watch HD broadcasting letterboxed. Or maybe I misunderstood your meaning.
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Disappointed with HD TV (I think)
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I was with you up to this point. I don't think SDTV needs to linger like cassette tapes since owners of SDTVs can watch HD broadcasting letterboxed. Or maybe I misunderstood your meaning.
To watch HD signals on an SDTV, you'd have to have an HD receiver of some kind that can dumb the signal down and letterbox it. If they could work it out with all the electronics makers and broadcasters to make sure everyone had an HD receiver, then they could turn off all SD broadcasts pretty quickly. But historically making such mandates and that kind of cooperation hasn't been easy. The deadline to shut off analog broadcasts has been pushed back multiple times and is only finally approaching. Even if HDTV penetration isn't high enough, the broadcasters would insist that HD receiver penetration would have to be quite high before they would end SD transmission completely. Whether people buy a new TV or a box, the overwhelming majority of the country will have to upgrade before broadcasters will be willing to shut SD broadcasts off.
Well, ESPN was on and when the image wasn't full screen it had two black borders on the right and left that said ESPN HD or something... so I'm sure it was HD. But just a few channels popped and even then it wasn't super-duper.
They had an Indy car race on and that was clear, but most other shows were full of artifacts. It was actually annoying.
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I think the digital tuners can "dumb down" HD video for standard-def analog TVs, so they could cut off SDTV broadcasts, but as I mentioned before, what about all of the reruns and such that air that weren't filmed in HD?
I think the digital tuners can "dumb down" HD video for standard-def analog TVs, so they could cut off SDTV broadcasts, but as I mentioned before, what about all of the reruns and such that air that weren't filmed in HD?
If it had black borders on the sides saying "ESPN HD" then it WAS an HD broadcast on an HD channel, but that particularly content was SD. This is how an HD channel bridges the gap when and a show (or even commercial) that only exists in SD is shown on an HD channel. It's entirely possible that it was a crappy HD monitor and/or a bad receiver.
If I understand this correctly, even SD broadcasts will be digital come next February (unless as you say, the deadline gets pushed back again), so an SDTV owner will require a converter box to watch a broadcast whether it's in SD ratio/resolution or HD ratio/resolution. The problem with discussing this is the lack of fixed definitions for the various technologies. The term "SD" doesn't necessarily mean "analog" -- it refers (as I understand it) only to the resolution and screen ratio.
It's still a mess for certain. The "big switch" isn't really going to help matters.
Even worse is when an HD broadcast includes letterboxed commercials, black bars top, bottom and sides. It does make you wonder if anybody is paying attention to how this looks to the viewer.
Standard definition really just refers to the elderly NTSC standard (or PAL or SECAM, depending on the country). "High definition," in its most literal usage, simply means higher resolution than NTSC, which isn't saying much, but means that all sorts of wacky formats are technically "high definition".
In consumer contexts, HD really means 720p or 1080i. 1080p is supported by many monitors, Blu-ray, and some camcorders, but I don't know of any TV channels that are broadcast that way. Someone can enlighten me if they know of one. As someone who makes his living in digital video, I can assure you that it's not much clearer to those of us in the industry either!
Trust me, you'll know when you're watching "True HD" because you'll stop and stare, with jaw dropped, and think "...holy *****". Crapping your pants where you stand can sometimes also occur.
That's good to hear -- I guess.
FWIW, I have never seen a 1080i or 1080p broadcast. Every station I've ever seen identifies on my TV as 720p or 480i, but then I am stuck with Time-Warner cable so woe is me.
If those were the only choices, yes. Mainly I'm talking about commercials broadcast on HD channels. Showing them letterboxed as if you were watching them on an SDTV is nutty.
I have HD from cable, and the quality goes from highly compressed and blocky to absolutely brilliant. It just depends on the particular program I'm watching (the quality is only as good as the source), and some channels simply get more bandwidth allotted to them than others.
My buddy has DirectTV, and it's the same situation with him. I don't think there's a silver bullet here yet.
My buddy has DirectTV, and it's the same situation with him. I don't think there's a silver bullet here yet.
for all of you confused, SD,HD is only resolution defined by the vertical resolution. It can be an analog or digital signal. Good example is the xbox360 with component cables which is an analog carrier, but HD. So here's the breakdown.
480i = SDTV
480P = EDTV (enhanced def TV)
720P, 1080i and 1080P = HDTV
I is interlaced. it is 30 frames per second with 2 fields (2 separate frames) smashed into 1 frame. Essentially fast moving objects are only half resolution since only half a frame is sent 1/60 of a second. Still items are a mixture of both frames and gives the illusion of a full resolution picture. It is also the a cause of flicker on many 1080i broadcasts. Was invented back during the invention of TV to save on bandwidth. You could send 60 frames in only the bandwidth of 30.
P is progressive. it is 60 frames per second. Full frames every frame like a film projector.
hope that explains some.
480i = SDTV
480P = EDTV (enhanced def TV)
720P, 1080i and 1080P = HDTV
I is interlaced. it is 30 frames per second with 2 fields (2 separate frames) smashed into 1 frame. Essentially fast moving objects are only half resolution since only half a frame is sent 1/60 of a second. Still items are a mixture of both frames and gives the illusion of a full resolution picture. It is also the a cause of flicker on many 1080i broadcasts. Was invented back during the invention of TV to save on bandwidth. You could send 60 frames in only the bandwidth of 30.
P is progressive. it is 60 frames per second. Full frames every frame like a film projector.
hope that explains some.
You're not along there. My TV is old enough that I'm going to have to buy a DTV convertor box for it to work when the switch comes.
Ok, here goes. Don't hit me.
As I understand it, people on cable are probably having their digital signals "compressed" due to limitations in the line, until their providers can get the analogue crap off of it next year (US only).
Then you may see true 720p, or even, dare I say it 1080p.
As I understand it, people on cable are probably having their digital signals "compressed" due to limitations in the line, until their providers can get the analogue crap off of it next year (US only).
Then you may see true 720p, or even, dare I say it 1080p.
I seem to recall signing up to DirecTV just as the "must carry" law went into effect. Basically, that meant that DTV had to add local stations to their network that they hadn't planned for. The long time digiphiles claimed that they could see an increase in compression on their other channels to make room for the new channels.
I have no idea if this was real or imaginary.
Has DTV launched another 10 satellites since then?! How bad is it all going to be if when they go to full HD? I mean, if the excuse is that they still have X amount of analog programming, how much worse could it be when they have to pump HD through every one of those analog holes?
And, back to one of my other questions, I could have sworn that Dish and DTV merged. Maybe the FCC crushed that (yet allowed Sirius and XM to combine). Which has better HD or are they similar?
I do like sports but, other than the NFL, I pretty much watch FOX or TBN... and I can pick those up with a cheap antenna in 2009!
I have no idea if this was real or imaginary.
Has DTV launched another 10 satellites since then?! How bad is it all going to be if when they go to full HD? I mean, if the excuse is that they still have X amount of analog programming, how much worse could it be when they have to pump HD through every one of those analog holes?
And, back to one of my other questions, I could have sworn that Dish and DTV merged. Maybe the FCC crushed that (yet allowed Sirius and XM to combine
). Which has better HD or are they similar?I do like sports but, other than the NFL, I pretty much watch FOX or TBN... and I can pick those up with a cheap antenna in 2009!
If you have basic cable you will still see it in analog, the cable company will downvert the digital signal. Analog won't go away anytime soon, as long as people have basic cable without a digital box there will be analog. The only way to get rid of analog is to give everyone a digital box and show them the HD signals letterboxed. That will free up the spectrum. Right now you have espn and espnhd both showing the same thing. That is what is taking up space.
As for old shows being shown in HD, all they do is add the columns on the left and right.
Also not every channel is in HD, they are all in digital but they are not required to be in HD. You will never see every channel on the dial in HD. Most local affiliates are not in HD (local news) but they will pass through the networks programing in HD. Just like not all the networks programing is in HD it will vert to DTV.
I have an antenna hooked up to my TV for OTA HD, and it reports the following:
Local FOX affiliate: 720p
CBS: 1080i
NBC: 1080i
ABC: 720p
Might be some TWC shenanigans. If you have a 1080 TV, you might want to pick up some rabbit ears and see if you'll get 1080 over the air. Might as well get what's best for your TV, right?
Now, I don't know how much of the actual content is in 1080i, I think some of the HD stuff is 720 that's been upconverted. And you can tell the SD stuff that's being upconverted to 1080i since that looks like crap. My TiVo says what the resolution is in the program guide data, but it's not accurate (for example, it lists the local news as being 1080i on the analog channel and 480i on the HD channel)
Ahhh, yes. There's so much waste of bandwidth on cable. Some channels are being broadcast in 3 formats:
Analog
SD Digital
HD Digital
If they could force everyone to get a set top box (hey, they're forcing people w/out cable to do it), they can ditch the analog feeds, and then for channels that have an HD version, ditch the SD version. The boxes can downconvert it for non-HD TVs. That would free up a TON of bandwidth and cable companies could have the bigger HD lineups like Dish and DTV do.
I think someone brought up the point that all broadcasts should be in HD (720 or above). Obviously not possible for stuff that's been filmed in 480. Of course there's the left and right column thing, but the stuff in the middle is still standard def and looks like crap
Although I think there's confusion here, because the broadcast overall is in HD, but the actual content is SD. I'm not sure if he was talking about requiring the broadcast to be HD or the content to be HD.I'm all for eventually requiring all new content to be recorded in HD (which I think is inevitable anyways, since cameras are going to be HD-only soon I bet). The FCC required everyone to move to digital, we might as well make the networks take advantage of it.
I'm not 100% happy with the way HD has been handled in the UK. For a long time we just had Sky and Virgin for HD. So you're either paying through the nose for it or hope you live in a cable area. And even then so little is actual HD. Skipping over the TV guide and there's no consistent HD programming, even for new shows.
We have a few HDTV's now but I'm waiting until we're finally there before spending another penny on tech that hasn't settled yet.
We have a few HDTV's now but I'm waiting until we're finally there before spending another penny on tech that hasn't settled yet.
I have an antenna hooked up to my TV for OTA HD, and it reports the following:
Local FOX affiliate: 720p
CBS: 1080i
NBC: 1080i
ABC: 720p
Might be some TWC shenanigans. If you have a 1080 TV, you might want to pick up some rabbit ears and see if you'll get 1080 over the air. Might as well get what's best for your TV, right?
It's not Time Warner that's messing with you. The networks chose which HD format they wanted to use and have stuck with it. ABC really is 720p instead of 1080i.
I have an antenna hooked up to my TV for OTA HD, and it reports the following:
Local FOX affiliate: 720p
CBS: 1080i
NBC: 1080i
ABC: 720p
Might be some TWC shenanigans. If you have a 1080 TV, you might want to pick up some rabbit ears and see if you'll get 1080 over the air. Might as well get what's best for your TV, right?
I live in a valley with mountains all around. We have virtually no over-air reception. In the days before cable, everybody had huge TV antenna masts on their roofs and still got only a couple of the LA channels, poorly.
I have a 720 TV and it reports all of the network station broadcasts at 720, so I presume either that this is how they are broadcasting or how Time-Warner Cable is passing the content along.