disappointed with PB purchase today

[tdewey]

I've had my share of laptops and have worked with dozens more and I have to admit, Apple has the nicest LCD in the 15" Powerbook (see sig for specs) compared to any of the other laptops I've used. Ever.

Yes, then even includes your sacred X-Brite (I know that's improper notation, but whatever) screens.

.

Uh No. Rez issue aside the 15" is nice, but not even close to the nicest LCD out there these days. Don't take my word for it, just take a trip to J&R if you live in NYC or Best Buy/Circuit City elsewhere. Of course I assume the brigher the screen the more power--so Apple may have made the decision not to put in the super-bright/super-crips screens to save battery. A reasonable decision IMHO.

But, however reasonable Apple's decision may be, I'm still not buying a PB until they improve the GPU.

Cheers

 

[sbb155]

This thread made me realize WHY apple puts out mediocre parts of their end product... because the Mac faithful will defend apple to the end...No matter what.... This is why we have poor FSB, no G5 PB, and sub-par screens...

I like my mac. I think there is so much room to improve on it. But as long as apple has people who will "say no wrong" about their products AND criticize people like me who make very reasonable points.... apple never has to evolve. never... And this is why they LAG pc makers in many aspects of hardware. Sure, they may be light years ahead from a software or OS point of view.... but the cult-like following leaves apple NO incentive to evolve or compete quickly.

Oh well, I connected the PB to an external display and I am much happier.

Thank goodness for you few guys who do agree with the screen issue. The apple "lovers" will laud apple when they come up with a high resolution screen. Of course, they will laud apple if apple used a 800x600 screen also... Such is the nature of the "followers". Note that "followers" are different from "switchers".

I bought a 1gb stick for a total of 1.5 gb... awesome, let me tell ya!

Samantha

 

[mcgarry]

enough

This thread made me realize WHY apple puts out mediocre parts of their end product... because the Mac faithful will defend apple to the end...No matter what.... This is why we have poor FSB, no G5 PB, and sub-par screens...

I like my mac. I think there is so much room to improve on it. But as long as apple has people who will "say no wrong" about their products AND criticize people like me who make very reasonable points.... apple never has to evolve. never... And this is why they LAG pc makers in many aspects of hardware. Sure, they may be light years ahead from a software or OS point of view.... but the cult-like following leaves apple NO incentive to evolve or compete quickly.
[snip]

No, that's not true. That's a simplistic cop-out from having to get into the real answers, and fails to recognize the cyclical nature of the industry. That and the fact that Apple doesn't always lag, but often leads. To take some banal examples, that 15" screen you don't like very much? Apple was the first to bother with a 15" screen on a laptop, and then with a 17". DVD-burner in a laptop? Apple first. Integrated (non-PC Card) wireless in a laptop? Apple first. These are just a few things, but hey there's more where that came from. "Apple never has to evolve"? Just who are you trying to kid?

The larger point is this: while I completely agree with you about the existence of Apple fanboy-types, possibly even in this thread as elsewhere, I think it is only fair to acknowledge that they fucntion as a convenient outlet for the gripes of those with little understanding of Apple and its products. In other words, if a Mac user says they like something about a Mac better than something else, their preference can be written off as the effects of the kool-aid and so on. That might be true, but they might actually be telling the truth. I know, as crazy as it sounds, they might acually like using Macs in the ways they describe. They, like me and so many others, might have used both platforms, both kinds of hardware, both screen resolutions and chosen to go a specific way based on their own personal preferences. You might choose differently. But the mere existence of Apple fanboys does not mean that everything said in favor of an Apple product has no merit or basis in fact. Not everyone who disagrees with you in this thread and on this forum is blinded to reason.

So please, stop taking cheap shots, and instead consider forming real arguments, which to your credit you have done often in this thread. The cult of Mac and everything that you want to lump into it exists at least as much in the misunderstandings of non-Mac users as it does in the hearts of Apple fanboys.

 

[sushi]

Thank goodness for you few guys who do agree with the screen issue. The apple "lovers" will laud apple when they come up with a high resolution screen. Of course, they will laud apple if apple used a 800x600 screen also... Such is the nature of the "followers". Note that "followers" are different from "switchers".

You might want to take the blinders off and broaden your horizons.

Some of us, who happen to have a PB15, might also use PCs as well and prefer the same type of resolutions on their PC products, be it laptop or desktop. I love my desktop 15 LCD which has a resolution of 1024x768. I connect both Macs and PCs to it. Looks great. Works perfect for me.

I realize that you may be different. Probably younger with better eyes. Makes a difference.

I had a friend who purchased a iBook 14 inch. Up until that time, I though it was a dumb idea for Apple to offer a 12 inch and a 14 inch iBook both with the same resolution. Then after he educated me about how it was easier for him to read and use I finally saw the light.

Sure you can make all kinds of adjustments to make things seem easier to read. But why bother, when you can just use a larger pixel size LCD to begin with?

Sure WinXP tries to adjust the screen resolution. In my case, I always put it back to native for the clearest result.

Anyhow, while I understand your desire for more pixels (which is fine), please try to understand that other folks don't desire more pixels with the way the current OS (PC and Mac) work. Maybe someday that will change. But for now, we are happy with what options we have.

Sushi

 

[mcgarry]

This thread made me realize WHY apple puts out mediocre parts of their end product... because the Mac faithful will defend apple to the end...No matter what.... This is why we have poor FSB, no G5 PB, and sub-par screens...

I like my mac. I think there is so much room to improve on it. But as long as apple has people who will "say no wrong" about their products AND criticize people like me who make very reasonable points.... apple never has to evolve. never... And this is why they LAG pc makers in many aspects of hardware. Sure, they may be light years ahead from a software or OS point of view.... but the cult-like following leaves apple NO incentive to evolve or compete quickly.
[snip]
Samantha

This is so blatantly mistaken it deserves a second reply. I'll go out on a limb and say that there is possibly nowhere else on this Internet where you can find more whining and complaining and criticizing of Apple than on these boards. I'm not saying that's bad thing; I kind of like it; that's part of why I'm here. These forums are home to some of the most thoughtful and pointed criticism you can find about Apple and its products, especially its laptops. You think the hard-core Mac nerds in here don't want to see a G5 PowerBook? burlier FSBs? The opposite is plainly true. The people here are, if anything, a spur to Apple to go faster and to innovate more, but I sincerely doubt that the macrumors community in aggregate has any real influence in the ways you assume, positive or negative.

All that's happened here is you found one thing about your computer you really don't like. Fine, I can't disagree with what you think works best for you. I also don't claim Apple screens are perfect and should never improve, but that's beside the point. Again, please do not assume that everyone who disagrees with you has drunk the kool-aid, and only those that agree with you are being reasonable.

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe Apple is not using higher resolution displays because whoever makes their displays can't even make the current ones right. Where I worked before, I saw at least 5-10 laptops a day (either sold and then checked on the way out or brough in for services). Out of all these machines I almost NEVER saw any with dead pixels. Now, in the last 2 months I have been through 4 powerbooks. I saw two 15" models in the apple store with a bad pixel right in the middle of the screen, then a 12" BTO I got had a bad pixel, then the 15" I got to replace that had the left side of the screen start going dark. I now finally (fingers crossed) have a working 12" powerbook. Apple even admits that they may have some consistent issues with their screens but they assume the customers will be ok with a dead pixels. That is crazy. I can only imagine if Apple released a 1600x1200 laptop display. The odds of a dead pixel would be so high I would never buy one unless I could see it in person first. Besides... who really needs that kind of resolution on a 15" screen. To me it is just a pain having to change font sizes and "make" text readable. This is just my opinion so if you completely disagree I will not be at all offended. Thanks for hearing me out

 

[h00ligan]

Wow, the PB has the best screens ever. Well, not as good as WVGA. If you think that PB have lousy screens, the iBooks must be unbearable.

the 12" has the same screen chachi.

i used my gf ibook the other night when she was over and it made me remember why I sold the pb and went to a vaio s260. The res was actually getting in the way of my work and i wasn't willing to go to a 15" with a lower res than my 13.3" widescreen.

forget the processor, apple needs a better screen , particularly in the 12"

 

[h00ligan]

**WHAT FOLLOWS IS VERY IMPORTAINT** when powerbooks ship the LCD is configured to look like crap (really... not kidding here) you have to go into display options and select The color profile that looks best or make a new one. This makes a HUGE difference, the stock prefrence is very dull but that screen is actually very bright and with crisp colors if corectly set up.

or better yet download supercal. it helps a lot, but you can't make a slik purse out of a sow's ear.

the 15 color purity is MUCH better than the 12" which just sucks.. everything about the 12" screen is weak. the 15 is nice.. but maybe could go higher res.. it's been a while since i looked at it but again, given i have a 12.2" with readable res, i would have to think that the 15 could use a res bump.. i will however stipulate that i work relatively close to my screen..

 

[mcgarry]

or better yet download supercal. it helps a lot, but you can't make a slik purse out of a sow's ear.

the 15 color purity is MUCH better than the 12" which just sucks.. everything about the 12" screen is weak. the 15 is nice.. but maybe could go higher res.. it's been a while since i looked at it but again, given i have a 12.2" with readable res, i would have to think that the 15 could use a res bump.. i will however stipulate that i work relatively close to my screen..

Screen quality, whatever, separate issue. But in this and your previous post you bring up resolution. What resolution exactly would you like to see on a 12" laptop screen? 1024x768 is all you'll get at 12.1" diagonal. It's totally standard and normal for the size. I think you mean to say that the screen is too small for you, because I don't know where you find 12" laptops with more pixels than the 12" PB (I mean that literally, which means I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen them from any of the big names; sure, there are some small widescreen options, but that's a different screen/computer size). Not liking small screens in general is one thing. Criticizing the resolutions that all screens at that size have, but only picking out the PB as if it's somehow underperforming in this category is another. Methinks this is getting silly.

also, the Vaio S260 has a 13.3" screen, I think, not 12.2" apples to oranges, and so on

 

[Michael8510]

...What resolution exactly would you like to see on a 12" laptop screen? 1024x768 is all you'll get at 12.1" diagonal. It's totally standard and normal for the size. ...

My sony vaio pcg-xg27 is about six or seven years old.... and it's 12" screen cranks up to 1280X1024 without a problem. I think that 12" PB owners have a legitimate gripe about rez. since other manufacturers have been offering higher rez on 12" screens for a looooooong time.

That said, if your really so concerned about screen rez/ real estate... jump up to the 15", which gives you both.

 

[Southbridge]

Screen quality, whatever, separate issue. But in this and your previous post you bring up resolution. What resolution exactly would you like to see on a 12" laptop screen? 1024x768 is all you'll get at 12.1" diagonal. It's totally standard and normal for the size. I think you mean to say that the screen is too small for you, because I don't know where you find 12" laptops with more pixels than the 12" PB (I mean that literally, which means I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen them from any of the big names; sure, there are some small widescreen options, but that's a different screen/computer size). Not liking small screens in general is one thing. Criticizing the resolutions that all screens at that size have, but only picking out the PB as if it's somehow underperforming in this category is another. Methinks this is getting silly.

also, the Vaio S260 has a 13.3" screen, I think, not 12.2" apples to oranges, and so on

um... actually the dell 12" model supports up to 1200 x 800...

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/pro...cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~page=3&~tab=specstab#tabtop

 

[mcgarry]

My sony vaio pcg-xg27 is about six or seven years old.... and it's 12" screen cranks up to 1280X1024 without a problem. I think that 12" PB owners have a legitimate gripe about rez. since other manufacturers have been offering higher rez on 12" screens for a looooooong time.

That said, if your really so concerned about screen rez/ real estate... jump up to the 15", which gives you both.

Sorry, I'm still not biting. I'm not at all saying your laptop doesn't exist, but I couldn't find any info on it with basic web searches, so I can't speak to it. h00ligan didn't know his actual screen size, apparently, so it'd be nice to check on yours, but I'll take it on faith for now. I did see that the Vaio XG28 had a 13.3" screen ... with 1024x768 max resolution.

Did I say the 12" PB had the best resolution? Did I say no one had ever made anything with more pixels? (I specifically stated that I hadn't seen any, but that they might indeed exist) No, I said it was "standard" and "normal" for its size, and I stand by that.

So, how standard and normal is it? Let's take a look at the competition:
- Sony: no 12" screens in current lineup
- HP: no 12" screens in current lineup
- Dell: offers a 12" widescreen; the laptop itself is almost an inch wider than the PB
- Toshiba: the portege R100 12-incher has 1024x768. Their 12" M200 offers more pixels, but it is a much different beast than the 12" PB, with its swivel screen and Tablet PC features, plus it's as wide as the Dell.
- IBM: their X-series offers a 12.1" non-widescreen display at ... 1024x768
- no, I'm not going to check every single company ... but these are the big ones

Now, should Apple be ditching the 12.1" non-widescreen form factor altogether? Maybe, but that's a separate discussion. The IBM X-series is arguably the (non-Mac) industry standard for 12.1" laptops. They are popular and well-respected. And they have the exact same number of pixels as a 12" PB. So you can argue that IBM and Apple are woefully behind in the race to offer their users the opportunity to put their faces even closer to their tiny non-widescreen 12" screens in hope of determining just what its says there, but the fact remains that the resolution on the 12" PB screens is standard, normal, and not worthy of pulling the fire alarm of criticism that the computer might so justly deserve elsewhere on its spec sheet.

 

[mcgarry]

um... actually the dell 12" model supports up to 1200 x 800...

Yeah, as I said in my earlier post, which you quoted, there are some small widescreen options ... but the whole computer is wider, so it's really not a straight comparison. They are larger computers. If you think Apple should be making larger computers, that's a separate point altogether than whether or not they should be cramming more pixels onto the 12" PB. The straight comparisons by size are to the IBM X-series, most directly, and to a lesser extent the Toshiba Portege I mentioned (it is super small).

 

[Bunkerss]

shut up and sit down

For those of you who are blasting sbb155 for "allegedly" not trying out the PB before buying it, I would like to remind you that not everyone lives next door to an Apple store or reseller. I don't know where sbb155 lives, but it's not always possible to "test drive" a computer product, ESPECIALLY an Apple product. I can't believe there are some Macheads that totally forgot about the near absolute lack of Apple distribution channels.
Just because someone buys something, "tested" or not, doesn't mean they can't be disappointed in, or complain about, some aspect of that product or service.
For instance, I'm planning to purchase a 12" iBook soon. I've researched them, looked at them, played with them, and overall think it's a good machine. But I still wish it came with more RAM in it, without having to shell out more cash right away. But since I am going to buy it anyway, does that mean I can't be disapppointed with the amount of RAM Apple puts in its machines? Of course I can, and even complain about it, too. And I will. Will it make Apple change it's ways? Maybe. Maybe not. Time will tell. But check your tongue at the door before you criticize someone when you may not have all the facts about his/her situation. As an apparent "switcher", we should congratulate sbb155 on her purchase of a Mac, not beat her with a stick back to the Windows camp. And P.S. A PowerMac will not solve the issue of screen resolution, but will certainly create new problems of portablity for someone who wants a laptop.

 

[angelneo]

I smell the stench of wasteland becoming stronger...

There are people who prefer lower resolution believe or not. and there are people who like higher resolution. I don't really see a problem here.

 

[Digidesign]

This thread made me realize WHY apple puts out mediocre parts of their end product... because the Mac faithful will defend apple to the end...No matter what.... This is why we have poor FSB, no G5 PB, and sub-par screens...

Translation: WaaAAAaaaa!! WaaAAAAaaa!!!

Wow, sucks to be you. My 15" PB screen has better contrast and color resolution than most of the Dells, HPs, IBMs out there. Sure, it may not be as powerful as a lite-brite machine or whatever. I just find it funny when I read posts about people complaining and then they make statements like the one above.

There is a little thing called heat which prevents the G5 from coming out. But, you're right, it's us Mac faithfuls that are keeping innovation and excellence from coming through. I'll just go back to my sub-par, mediocre powerbook and enjoy its dissapointing performance.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think Apple should have a higher resolution display in its portable line too, at least as an option.

I have to say that I would have expected to see a resolution bump in the 17 and 15 inch powerbooks by this time. It's not a really big deal, although you wouldn't know it by all the mudslinging going on in her . Apple portables genberally have above above average contrast and brightness, though they do lag in resolution.

I am perfectly happy with the current powerbook over all though, it is definitely one of the best laptops ever made, period.

The screen res is a point worth noting but NOT worth flipping out into a flamewar over (hint hint)

 

[sbb155]

"Translation: WaaAAAaaaa!! WaaAAAAaaa!!!"

Yet another example of the maturity level of the mac elite members

 

[Undecided]

More random thoughtage

I found this thread rather interesting - so much that I just had to register and post a comment. All the Apple screens adhere to the principle of 100 dpi. Unfortunately, both Windows and OSX are not resolution-independent operating systems, so on the Mac side at least they assume you have a 100 dpi screen for WYSIWYG. And it works. A relative of mine has a Dell with a 15" screen at 1600x1200. That makes everything insanely small, and he's constantly bitching about it. Seeing a document at "100%" in a 3 inch by 6 inch part of the screen isn't really helpful. Sure, he can drop the resolution, but that's not ideal.

I'm also a PC user (Sony v505dx - 12" 1024x768). Before I got my notebook, I considered smaller ones with higher resolution screens. While it seemed OK for a little while, it doesn't take long for a high resolution screen with everything really tiny to get annoying.

I personally agree with Apple's adherence to 100dpi, but your mileage may vary. I assume that Apple at some point determined that 100dpi was middle of the road and would please the majority.

Earlier today I had my notebook side by side with a friend's 17" PB (he was helping me upload stuff to my phone over his bluetooth...heh). I definitely preferred his screen. The difference to me is that his is like a front-lit piece of paper while mine is like a back-lit piece of paper, if that makes sense.

By the way, regarding X Brite, some people don't like the glossiness. Others feel it's too bright if the room is a little dark (no it doesn't automatically adjust - what do you think this is, a Mac?).

Lastly, what am I doing in these Mac forums? I'm so fed up with Windows, I'm seriously lusting after a 15" PB. (Back in the day I had a PB 145B and then an 8500.) I *am* tech-savvy, but I couldn't get a bluetooth PC Card to work, and I'm tired of bizarre errors (like my optical drive icon disappearing - reboot, like not being to put the notebook to sleep or shut it down - hard reboot). I recall directly networking my notebook with a friend's G3 ibook in a cafe (100 mbit ethernet), uploading stuff to him. While the transfer was going, my notebook was unusable, but his just hummed along nicely.

 

[Digidesign]

"Translation: WaaAAAaaaa!! WaaAAAAaaa!!!"

Yet another example of the maturity level of the mac elite members

Nice. You want to know what maturity is? It's when you know enough not to throw around blanket statements like the ones you made above, blaming mac fans for the impediment of apple's progress. And here you go again, assuming that my comment speaks for mac "elite" members when it's really just me laughing at you.

[edit - sarcastic line removed] For what it's worth, there have been a lot of helpful and insightful posts from members in this thread. I hope you'll find some solace with your PB screen.

 

[portent]

http://www.apple.com/displays/technology.html

Best Resolution for Images and Words
The quality of the pixels you see impacts how you use your computer. After years of experience, Apple engineers have discovered the ideal resolution to display both sharp text and graphics — a pixel density of about 100 pixels per inch (ppi). Other vendors may offer a larger monitor, but with less resolution, so you end up with fewer pixels, or a smaller monitor with a high resolution that causes eyestrain and headaches. Apple’s balanced 100 pixels per inch format is optimized for images, yet allows you to easily work with text in email, Safari and sophisticated type treatments in layouts.

For those of you keeping track at home, 1280x854 at 15.2" is 101.23ppi
You're free to disagree with Apple on this one, of course, but that's their story, and they're sticking to it.

[EDIT: For those of you really keeping track at home, a 14" iBook has the lowest ppi, at 91.4. A 12" iBook or PowerBook has the highest, at 106.7. A 17" PowerBook, or a 17" iMac, is almost dead-on at 99.9ppi ]

 

[Undecided]

DPI calculator

Indeed, check out http://www.raydreams.com/prog/dpi.aspx to calculate DPI. Note, be sure to use 12.1, 14.1, etc. for a precise calculation.

 

[sushi]

"Translation: WaaAAAaaaa!! WaaAAAAaaa!!!"

Yet another example of the maturity level of the mac elite members

Uh, I find it interesting that this is the post that you finally decided to post a reply.

There have been many other good and thoughtful posts, but yet you chose this one. Most interesting. Yep, most interesting!

Sushi