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I don't think that a hardcore gamer will be happy with the 750M ;) But you are essentially correct, except that GPU is rarely utilised for 3D rendering. Some newer versions of 3D software support OpenCL acceleration for rendering, and Iris Pro should fare very well there. I am not aware of any benchmarks though.

I always wondered why people aren't too happy with the 750M. Coming from someone with a 330M, how much better is the 750M compared with that? The 330M was pretty great for games back in 2010 when it came out :)
 
I always wondered why people aren't too happy with the 750M. Coming from someone with a 330M, how much better is the 750M compared with that? The 330M was pretty great for games back in 2010 when it came out :)

Somewhere between 2x and 3x better. And 330M was never much good for games, actually, it even struggles with Starcraft 2, which was also released at the same time. The 750M fares much better in comparison.

Please don't get me wrong, I do think that the 750M is absolutely sufficient for some gaming, even with demanding games. I can still play anything with my 650M, although it does start to show its age. Its simply that a hardcore gamer, who is often used to desktop performance, will find the massive drop in quality and fps hard to stomach. The Nvidia Maxwell series would surely help.
 
Somewhere between 2x and 3x better. And 330M was never much good for games, actually, it even struggles with Starcraft 2, which was also released at the same time. The 750M fares much better in comparison.

Please don't get me wrong, I do think that the 750M is absolutely sufficient for some gaming, even with demanding games. I can still play anything with my 650M, although it does start to show its age. Its simply that a hardcore gamer, who is often used to desktop performance, will find the massive drop in quality and fps hard to stomach. The Nvidia Maxwell series would surely help.

Yep, since most games are designed to work with the Xbox 360, the 750M can run most current gen games without issue. As the next gen consoles gear up and replace the old gen, I have a feeling that game requirements will skyrocket.
 
I don't think that a hardcore gamer will be happy with the 750M ;) But you are essentially correct, except that GPU is rarely utilised for 3D rendering. Some newer versions of 3D software support OpenCL acceleration for rendering, and Iris Pro should fare very well there. I am not aware of any benchmarks though.



If you are not working with very large images or videos, no. Benchmarks do show that 750M is significantly faster when working with 4K video or insanely big photos — these are situations where its high memory bandwidth gives it the decisive advantage. But for a 'normal' user, there will be no difference.

The bottomline is that is depends on the kind of data and algorithms you are working with. If you have lots of data and fairly simple algorithms (e.g. simple filter/effect application), then 750M will shine, because these workflows are more sensible to the data transfer speed. If you have smaller data and complex algorithms (e.g. ray tracing, which requires lots of random memory accesses), the Iris Pro will win by a large margin.

how about Photoshop?
 
how about Photoshop?

Photoshop CS6 and CC are OpenCL optimized, so in that, the Iris Pro will fare better.

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I always wondered why people aren't too happy with the 750M. Coming from someone with a 330M, how much better is the 750M compared with that? The 330M was pretty great for games back in 2010 when it came out :)

I'm happy with my 750M.

I can play BF4 at a mix of high and ultra, 1680x1050, 16xAF and FXAA, and still get 47-50 fps, with the lowest being 35 and easily going past 60 fps in quite a number of situations.

The 750M used in Macs is the GDDR5 variant, so it even outperforms the GTX660M.
 
Photoshop CS6 and CC are OpenCL optimized, so in that, the Iris Pro will fare better.

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I'm happy with my 750M.

I can play BF4 at a mix of high and ultra, 1680x1050, 16xAF and FXAA, and still get 47-50 fps, with the lowest being 35 and easily going past 60 fps in quite a number of situations.

The 750M used in Macs is the GDDR5 variant, so it even outperforms the GTX660M.

I appreciate your quick reply and it helps alot.

It's all about the money. As of now the High End 15" MacBook Pro Retina is over $2500. A little bit over my budget. Hopefully the next round of updates will bring a lower price tag for the high end, When I bought my 2010 15" MacBook Pro it was $1999 + tax. I know the retina pushed the prices up, but maybe the 2014 update will bring those prices a bit lower as They have been trending, since the retinas release in 2012.

My one other concern is ram 8gb enough? The high end system comes with 16gb of ram and it's not upgradable once offered. For the tasks I have stated above does 8gb vs 16gb ram make a difference?

Thanks!
 
I appreciate your quick reply and it helps alot.

It's all about the money. As of now the High End 15" MacBook Pro Retina is over $2500. A little bit over my budget. Hopefully the next round of updates will bring a lower price tag for the high end, When I bought my 2010 15" MacBook Pro it was $1999 + tax. I know the retina pushed the prices up, but maybe the 2014 update will bring those prices a bit lower as They have been trending, since the retinas release in 2012.

My one other concern is ram 8gb enough? The high end system comes with 16gb of ram and it's not upgradable once offered. For the tasks I have stated above does 8gb vs 16gb ram make a difference?

Thanks!

First, what's your usage on the RMBP?

By the way there's also the refurb store. Prices are pretty attractive.

Refurbs are bloody good, as good as brand new. More often than not, refurbs are returned units that haven't been opened because the customer changed minds.
 
Unfortunately you'll want the discrete graphics card. It will always be better than the one onboard the CPU.

2 reasons:
1) dedicated vRAM at GDDR5 speeds (I have not heard the vRAM being any different in the 800m series)
Edit: If you don't know the GPU on the CPU uses your system RAM. So if you have 4GB of RAM it uses a portion of that for GPU.
2) nvidia/AMD has invested multi-billions in graphics processing power. It's light years more advanced than anything Intel can produce.

With that said the reason why you want the dedicated graphics card is because you use applications that would benefit from it. Your overall user experience would be better.

I'm not saying Intel's solution is poor or bad but it's not designed for people who require graphics processing power. The onboard GPU is really designed for people to play their facebook games on their 400 dollar laptop.

Here are some benchmarks.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7_4770K_Haswell_GPU/16.html

Edit:
Here's some information about the haswell architecture.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture/12

Here's some information about broadwell
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...ape-indicates-major-improvements-over-haswell

So I currently own a 2010 15" Macbook Pro. It has the NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with 512mb Discrete VRAM.

How does that compare with current generation non-discrete "Iris Pro" graphics in the new Macbook Pros?

Not sure I want to shell out over $2000 to get a discrete card in my next Macbook Pro. I am a graphic designer that primarily uses InDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator and I do play some games on occasion like Starcraft 2 etc.

If Iris Pro graphics is leaps and bounds better then Intel integrated graphics, I don't see the need for the discrete VRAM.

P.S I am waiting for Broadwell :)

Help!
 
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First, what's your usage on the RMBP?

By the way there's also the refurb store. Prices are pretty attractive.

Refurbs are bloody good, as good as brand new. More often than not, refurbs are returned units that haven't been opened because the customer changed minds.

correct me if I'm wrong, but i dont think that apple would sell products as refurb when they've never even been opened

the whole point of refurbishing a product unit is "cleaning" and "restore" the previous condition to sell them "as good as new"

would you sell a perfectly new wrapped up macbook as "refurbished" ?

maybe they also sell refurb units that have failed their quality control and are marked as "b" directly from factory
 
First, what's your usage on the RMBP?

By the way there's also the refurb store. Prices are pretty attractive.

Refurbs are bloody good, as good as brand new. More often than not, refurbs are returned units that haven't been opened because the customer changed minds.

I will mostly be using the Adobe Creatie Suite of programs. I will probably install a boot camp of windows 7. The only reason for the bootcamp would be to play a game or two on occasion, mostly strategy like Starcraft 2 etc.

But 9 times out of 10. Adobe Creative Suite, mostly InDesign, Illustrator and Photoshop. Other then that Safari, Mail, iTunes etc.
 
How does Iris Pro designate Video Memory from System Memory? Are discrete video cards a thing of the past?

They aren't entirely a thing of the past. They are becoming less common in Apple machines, especially notebooks. Any of these options are still a fraction of the speed of a desktop 780.

I will be mostly using the Adobe Creative Suite. On occasion I want to play a game, but nothing crazy. Will see what the next update brings. I just don't want to spend over 2000+

What would you suggest I sell my 2010 15" Macbook Pro for (specs below)?.

I don't know what you'll get for the 2010. You should be fine with Creative Suite. Can you elaborate what you use most? Keep in mind this topic has come up many times before, so there's a lot of good information in the older threads.

I guess my understanding of video cards is very minimal. These new cards that can take system ram and access as much as they please compared to discrete video cards. I just don't understand how they work vs a video card with its own discrete ram.

You don't need to understand all of it, and there is no chance of gaining any real insight through a few forum replies. Integrated graphics are nothing new. There is some cap imposed somewhere, at least by the OS as to what they are allowed to consume, but that isn't terribly important. If you want to see gaming benchmarks, you should try barefeats. They do a lot of comparisons. Their methods aren't always what I would consider perfect, but they do give an indication of how the tests are run. If you look through older threads, you'll also find a lot of anecdotal framerates from other people on recent macbook pros. Iris pro will be slower, but I'm skeptical on the idea of paying that much more for the 750m unless you were also planning to buy some of the other cto options that are included at that level anyway. Otherwise for gaming I would probably just go with the 2012 refurbished, which costs quite a bit less at this point. The 750m is the same card used in that one. It's just clocked higher and has more vram, so it can load bigger textures without stuttering assuming that is the only performance bottleneck.

So with the current Iris Pro, it is ideal in most situations. The discrete GPU such as the GT 750M w/ 2GB would only really be needed for the Hardcore gamer or 3D rendering.

I won't see a difference in everyday tasks and Adobe Creative Suite. Correct?

3D rendering isn't gpu reliant aside from a couple renderers. Even then NONE of the gpus offered on any Mac are supported with a couple after market exceptions on older Mac Pros, and even then only if you boot into Windows or Linux. This is one of those misconceptions that people keep passing around on the internet because it sounds like it should be true. The reason offline rendering isn't run by sets of gpus in spite of its parallel nature relates mostly to memory subsystems. Older renderers relied on things such as formats that could easily be read to virtual memory swap space without first being loaded into ram due to the amount of texture data that may be loaded for a single object or shader stack. Fully programmable gpu pipelines were also unavailable when the use of CG really started to take off, but you don't really need to understand any of this, and it's way beyond the scope of a forum post.

Anyway I wouldn't recommend the 750m for hardcore gaming or anything really taxing in OpenGL. If you wanted maximum power, I wouldn't recommend a notebook just because desktop gpus offer so much more. The two aren't even close, so past a certain point the answer is neither. You want to play current generation games at max settings. Answer is neither. You want to move around several million polygons with shading without dropping below 24fps, answer is neither.

how about Photoshop?

Any current gpu is fine for that. Older integrated graphics may be slower specifically on functions that are overloaded with OpenCL counterparts (meaning they use OpenCL if available, otherwise use other code). This isn't something you'll run into constantly anyway. Most people don't have a workflow that involves on long stream of filters, and if they have that, they apply it in Lightroom where gpus are completely meaningless.
 
correct me if I'm wrong, but i dont think that apple would sell products as refurb when they've never even been opened

the whole point of refurbishing a product unit is "cleaning" and "restore" the previous condition to sell them "as good as new"

would you sell a perfectly new wrapped up macbook as "refurbished" ?

maybe they also sell refurb units that have failed their quality control and are marked as "b" directly from factory

Apple's definition of refurb isn't the same, as far as I know.

My uncle (he's a software engineer in Craig Federighi's department), he says that there's a lot of people who change their minds before opening the box and just send it back within the 14-day period.

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I will mostly be using the Adobe Creatie Suite of programs. I will probably install a boot camp of windows 7. The only reason for the bootcamp would be to play a game or two on occasion, mostly strategy like Starcraft 2 etc.

But 9 times out of 10. Adobe Creative Suite, mostly InDesign, Illustrator and Photoshop. Other then that Safari, Mail, iTunes etc.

The Iris Pro will do you fine for these.

In any case, should you find the need for a dedicated GPU, you can use an external GPU setup with a desktop GPU mounted in a Sonnet IIID enclosure, connected via Thunderbolt 2.
 
I wouldn't wish an Apple laptop with a discrete video card on my worst enemy.

Most discrete video cards in Apple laptops become a thing of the past after they burn out and die. They become a thing of the past, while the rest of the computer is still a thing of the present, actually.

One of these days the FTC will revoke Apple's privileges to sell laptops with discrete GPUs. Until then, I will do my best to suggest no one ever buy them. :)

If you play games or edit video, use a desktop for that. A real desktop with real ventilation, not an iMac/all in one thing that becomes a dust magnet or a Toastbook Pro. Use a portable with integrated graphics, or a desktop with discrete graphics.

Or buy an infrared rework station and spare GPUs, because you'll need 'em!

Just my two cents. Iris is the best thing to happen to the MBP. Performance on integrated video is finally amazing enough that most people will be just fine with it, even people doing occasional gaming & video editing.
 
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