Disenchanted After a Decade

[rforno]

There are lots of us that prefer the relatively frictionless nature of the ecosystem to all the inferior (from our perspective) alternatives. Are there some compromises? Sure! Worth it? Absolutely!

Not saying it's a bad thing - but it would be nice to have the option to use my tech in ways other than only as Cupertino desires!

 

[djlythium]

The only truly 'frictionless' experience for Apple users these days is if you go all-in on Apple's ecosystem.

Right, and even nowadays, though, they’ve let the road deteriorate to the point of being filled with potholes, IMO.

 

[Blue Quark]

<off topic>
Star Trek: I am a long time fan of the series, and I strongly agree with The Critical Drinker's recent video on the present state of the franchise.
</off topic>

I think feelings of disenchantment vis a vis material things or business entities are a bit like depression or even stages of grief in that they come and go, and are often more psychological artifacts than valid perceptions of reality.

There's so much hype (positive and negative) within and throughout the tech industry. To my mind, that has a huge multiplier effect on anything which is a valid fact. I think people need to be informed about what's going on around them by credible sources, use an intellectual process of critical thinking and analysis, and make rational decisions that way.

Anything else is just nonsense which, at best, does not help the situation, and at worst can actually do material harm, whether it's to the individual her- or himself, to society around them, or both.

 

[poked]

<off topic>
Star Trek: I am a long time fan of the series, and I strongly agree with The Critical Drinker's recent video on the present state of the franchise.
</off topic>

I think feelings of disenchantment vis a vis material things or business entities are a bit like depression or even stages of grief in that they come and go, and are often more psychological artifacts than valid perceptions of reality.

There's so much hype (positive and negative) within and throughout the tech industry. To my mind, that has a huge multiplier effect on anything which is a valid fact. I think people need to be informed about what's going on around them by credible sources, use an intellectual process of critical thinking and analysis, and make rational decisions that way.

Anything else is just nonsense which, at best, does not help the situation, and at worst can actually do material harm, whether it's to the individual her- or himself, to society around them, or both.

I’ve seen the people on social media. Critical thinking is not something I’d attribute to them, but maybe a Meme Dream Car will be…???

 

[Nermal]

Well, I don't expect this to accomplish anything, but I directed Apple to the Music bugs thread and suggested that they consider making 'unmaintained' (not the word I used in the feedback!) components like this open source so that the community can fix the issues.

 

[djlythium]

Instead of the idealistic ads Apple shows everyone, where everything seemingly works perfectly (which never ever Apple products in a real way, with all of the stupid headaches and time-consuming glitches, including nearly-nonfunctional Siri. That'd be amazing!

Tagline: Still believe in magic? ?

 

[H. Flower]

Yeah, I've felt this way for awhile... the feeling that the premium price I pay for their products isn't quite earned anymore. A few instances in just the past few days:

- On Sunday I noticed the paint on my leather link Apple Watch band is chipping off. The band is only 6 months old, and I paid $100 for it.
- Today I tried to get Siri to play my music on my paired HomePod minis. Didn't work. Then I tired to play the same music across all HomePods throughout house. Didn't work, and usually doesn't.
- On Monday I purchased a MagSafe charger for my iPhone 12. Got it home, and out of the box, only to realize the connector is USB-C, and I have to purchase the brick separately because my new iPhone didn't come with one. I ordered a 7 dollar 3rd party brick off Amazon, all the while cursing Apple in my mind for charging so much and being so cheap at the same time.

 

[djlythium]

Yeah, I've felt this way for awhile... the feeling that the premium price I pay for their products isn't quite earned anymore. A few instances in just the past few days:

- On Sunday I noticed the paint on my leather link Apple Watch band is chipping off. The band is only 6 months old, and I paid $100 for it.
- Today I tried to get Siri to play my music on my paired HomePod minis. Didn't work. Then I tired to play the same music across all HomePods throughout house. Didn't work, and usually doesn't.
- On Monday I purchased a MagSafe charger for my iPhone 12. Got it home, and out of the box, only to realize the connector is USB-C, and I have to purchase the brick separately because my new iPhone didn't come with one. I ordered a 7 dollar 3rd party brick off Amazon, all the while cursing Apple in my mind for charging so much and being so cheap at the same time.

I feel this!

Yesterday, I was making calls from the M1 Mac through my iPhone 11, and the calls kept failing, again and again.

Want to know why? ??‍♂️ Because caches or something.

How did I fix it? By restarting my phone.

Moral of the story: We're well into the 21st century, and we still have to turn off-and-restart our devices to fix things.

??‍♂️

 

[Darth Tulhu]

This all sounds like an "Apple is doomed" thread.

I've been using Apple products since 2001, and while things got pretty dark around 2016 (ahem...butterfly keyboards...) Apple maintained their momentum in other areas that I didn't care for at the time.

I raged against the machine for a long time and held on to my 17" MBP, and 2011 iMac and bought NOTHING from Apple since then until 2020.

Then something happened.

Supporting tech services like 4G LTE, ubiquitous WiFi and cloud storage and access, along with the iOS revolution (centered around the iPhone) and the true empowerment of the iPad has allowed me to completely ditch the Mac; something I NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS thought I would do.

I get that computer nerds (I use the term lovingly) are disappointed that the Mac is no longer the center of Apple's universe, but I feel we are truly living in the future.

The iPhone, iPad, Pencil, Watch, iCloud and AirPods combination simply cannot be beat in ease of use, convenience, and access to everything I ever needed a computer for.

My Macs just sit there. I never have to plug in external drives. I don't even use a monitor at home. I have the best screen ever THIS close to my eyeballs. But even so, when appropriate I sling to my 85" tv, or use my FireStick (for consumption), and I'm good. I only compute at a desk for work. Otherwise, I compute literally everywhere else.

Yes, there's always room for improvement, and I'm of the mind that Apple holds back features so we have something to look forward to in the future and to drive future sales. But there have always been bugs, always problems, etc. We must avoid looking at the past with rose-colored glasses.

So I think Apple is better than ever now, and Steve's vision of "computing for everyone" is fulfilled. Steve's been dead for 10 years and Apple is FAR stronger both financially and product-wise than ever before. Apple has (arguably) driven the ENTIRE industry to change, and I love where it's going.

I think Apple will be just fine, and so will tech, and so will we. Computing has NEVER been easier, and I think Apple is LARGELY responsible for that.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I find myself just not really excited about this company anymore.

So much "change for the sake of change" and the switch to a services push -- while I guess understandable in some ways -- continues to turn me off. I'm so tired of having Apple services marketed to me all over the place.

 

[400]

Tricky to quantify. I bought into Apple back 1999 after an Amiga and Amstrad, never used Windows product for personal use apart from a short stint with a laptop for Open University requirements. Overall I have liked it, preferred the methods etc. (work was all Windows, many years using it).

But, always felt each iteration was a lag in the market. OK, it is put together well, too well in later years as they chase the form factor of slim, thus removing ease of repair (or mods). This new 24", I like it, if I were in control, I would certainly do it different. But I am not in control. I got this one as my 2013 one was having issues.

I appreciate design time to market, tech will pass that time slot, can live with that but still niggles in some cases when apparently older bits are used when better were available.

Cloud services I like, more for the privacy compared to others, but usually the phone, pad and iMac all play ball. It can drive me nuts though for a simple issue.

Apple support have been absolutely superb with the muck up that was a result of me trying to do something the software should have prevented me doing (installing Big Sur on external HD that wiped certain security features from the desk top and probably unrelated messing up 700gb Photo library that is taking over a week to re download).

Games, don't really ever think Apple has ever got close to sorting this, nor the will. Not sure what will happen with M1, time will tell.

But my options are services I will not voluntarily get involved with, and a OS I don't like though it can run on hardware that will make this 24" look like a pensioner. And probably buy a PS or X box. Overall I like the OS and integration with Apple (despite glitches).

So I sit with a nice but expensive all in one, knowing the reason why is the software and security on other systems? One could argue Apple saw me coming (to coin the used car salesperson phrase ?).

Loving the new iPad pro though. With the pen, editing CR2 camera raw pics is a dream.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think I'm suffering a bit now from a sort of sedimentary build up of minor aggravations around the path Apple have trodden over the last half decade with the MacBook lineup. In 2015 when I got my first MacBook Pro, everything was so great, it's a machine I loved instantly and still do today. About a year in I was not ready to upgrade yet, but I was certainly curious to see the 2016 update, that was probably the point I started really looking into sites such as this and became familiar with the idea it'd likely be a full redesign, and with terms like 'SkyLake' and 'Magic Toolbar' (the rumoured name for the Touch Bar). Also the idea that the design language would probably take inspiration from the 12" MacBook (hey, great, that little computer looks amazing!).

Then we get to October 2016 - how exciting, it's finally itshappening.gif! I'm now 'into Apple' enough to watch things like their product presentation videos, I finally get to see the new design after waiting so many months! And Wow, what a beautiful computer! But oh, that costs a lot more! Wait, what if I need to plug in a USB drive? Hmm, I wonder what a keyboard with only .5mm of travel actually feels like to type on? So ok, it's going to cost a lot more going forward, well, I guess if I only upgrade at 4 year intervals I can get the final and best revision of each MacBook Pro generation, that's still a pretty nice solid/ regular upgrade path. Roll on 2019!

By mid 2017 - the butterfly Keyboard, then display flex problems come to light. Controversy is swirling over those plus the move to solely USB C, plus the price increase. A lot of my early enthusiasm is tempered, I've tried the new design out, managing to borrow a family members, and I really don't like typing on it (which is what I do a lot of). It makes my fingers sore if I want to type at over 20WPM. Later in 2017 I sign up here, I want to know if maybe there could be a 15 inch MacBook Air that's cheaper and still has 'legacy' ports. Nobody seems to be talking about it but perhaps that's why they stopped selling the 11" Air?

Flash forward to early 2019, I suppose this will be the year for me, My reservations have only grown, but I've learned choice isn't Apple's modus operandi. You go with what they deign to offer or you can look elsewhere. I'm ready to go when the 2019 15" is launched... only now there's swirling rumours about a 16" coming shortly after, and it's going to have a much better keyboard, and a bigger screen to boot! Well that sounds like it's definitely worth waiting a bit longer for!

Mid 2019, rumours about Arm macs in 2020 reach fever pitch, hmm, Apple are running circles round everyone else with the iPad performance, I've already been convinced for a while that using a close relative of the A12X in a laptop would yield impressive results -> November 2019, the 16" launches, and I'm initially very impressed, but in the end I can't get around the Apple Silicon carrot just on the horizon (rightly it seems in the end!)... Aaand that's where I'm still stuck some 20 months later. If only Apple had offered some sort of 15" M1 laptop last year.

I'm aware as I type this it all seems a bit petty, entitled and first world problemy, but disenchanted is definitely the word for my current feelings. It feels like I've been waiting and waiting and each time there's news it's bad or heavily favours waiting even longer. You could argue maybe the leaks are the problem here, but then if I'd been totally in the dark I'd probably have bought the 2019 15" and been annoyed a few months later when the 16" arrived. Or if I'd dallied until the 16" launched and got that, then just a year later I'd probably have felt a bad having dropped so much money on something that doesn't have all the revolutionary benefits of Apple Silicon. Yes there's always something better round the corner, but there's also definitely times when it is better to wait.

Leading on from that, Apple do seem to have had some definite success in cracking down on leaks, and that really just makes things even more frustrating. The rumours don't go away, we just get people inferring and projecting instead of giving out solid information. It's all started trying my enjoyment of tech/ Apple as a hobby. I do have regular breaks from here (sometimes a week, but I've gone a couple of months as well... so far I always come back though) and increasingly it feels a bit of a relief. I think it's too easy to make all this feel much bigger than it is when you immerse yourself in it because it's something you enjoy.

Anyway, that was longer and more of a rant than it probably had any right to be, but at least it's off my chest now! ??

 

[djlythium]

This all sounds like an "Apple is doomed" thread.

I can def see what you might say that. I’ll be clear in saying that wasn’t my intention for this thread; rather, I wanted it to be a centralized place to speak about the variance in Apple’s tech quality, hence the poll.

Personally, I don’t think Apple is doomed at all. I just think they’ve dropped back down to the ‘bugs and glitches’ level of other platforms, while still pushing a high premium and ‘it just works’ narrative.

I completely appreciate your addition, also! ??

So much "change for the sake of change" and the switch to a services push -- while I guess understandable in some ways -- continues to turn me off.

Word, this, for sure. I feel like it’d be really innovative right now if Apple moved to a 2 or 3 year update cycle, with subtle revisions along the way to iron everything out.

So I sit with a nice but expensive all in one, knowing the reason why is the software and security on other systems?

Your whole post was great, mate, but this especially caught my eye. Right, other systems now are competitive in their own ecosystems, for sure. It would be far to much work, not to mention be expensive, to fully switch over to another ecosystem, + plus I don’t see any real benefit because everyone now seems parallel in build quality (s & h), which is most detrimental for Apple because they used to be so bug-free.

I think I'm suffering a bit now from a sort of sedimentary build up of minor aggravations around the path Apple have trodden over the last half decade with the MacBook lineup.

Perfect way to describe the feeling, though I’ll extend that to the whole ecosystem. We all know about Apple’s ‘we’ll build what we want and you’ll like it’ philosophy, but I was actually surprised when they made the iPP identical to Sonny Dickson’s original render, which was what everyone wanted! ?????? Really, I’d love to see Apple distill out 10 solid ideas, then poll the large tech community on our top 7, or something to that effect. ?

Thanks everyone for your contributions!

 

[400]

Your whole post was great, mate, but this especially caught my eye. Right, other systems now are competitive in their own ecosystems, for sure. It would be far to much work, not to mention be expensive, to fully switch over to another ecosystem, + plus I don’t see any real benefit because everyone now seems parallel in build quality (s & h), which is most detrimental for Apple because they used to be so bug-free.

I have never signed up to google for example, I refuse to use them. I appreciate that they probably have stuff on me but it gives me something to go trying to avid their business model. Same with facebook. And with windows, just never liked it past a tool when I was working. Using the latter for work, all day every day, I appreciate the alternative in Apple but knowing I am getting gouged.

Mind you, we were issued a Windows phone to replace the blackberry at work, both were absolute dire locked down pointless bits of kit. A bit of string and 2 tin cans would have worked better. Most functions were disabled past documents and mail, so never got to use them un fettered but didn't like the OS on either.

Magic wand time. Every Apple event where they announce something, no stage set up, no woo and hoo. Just a bit of scrap paper coffee stained and cigarette burned as a press release handed out the kitchen porters door as an after thought for the press.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Magic wand time. Every Apple event where they announce something, no stage set up, no woo and hoo. Just a bit of scrap paper coffee stained and cigarette burned as a press release handed out the kitchen porters door as an after thought for the press.

I hope your wand is broken.

Where's the fun in this? I have been disappointed with plenty of Apple keynotes in 20 years, but when they deliver (something for me), it's like Christmas.

When Steve was around this was almost ubiquitous, but as Apple reached maturity things obviously began to slow down.

That said, for me lately Apple has been ringing the jingle bells: the new Mac Pro, the death of the butterfly, the 16" MBP, the transition to all Apple Silicon, the A and M chips, the newest iPad Air and Pros (with M1), the Magic Keyboard for iPad (I love that thing), iPadOS 15, the newer Watches (and their health features), and the new colorful iMacs, all do it for me.

My wallet was jumping out of my pants on its own.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I can def see what you might say that. I’ll be clear in saying that wasn’t my intention for this thread; rather, I wanted it to be a centralized place to speak about the variance in Apple’s tech quality, hence the poll.

Personally, I don’t think Apple is doomed at all. I just think they’ve dropped back down to the ‘bugs and glitches’ level of other platforms, while still pushing a high premium and ‘it just works’ narrative.

I completely appreciate your addition, also! ??

I think that Apple has SO MANY more products out there that the bugs and glitches thing scales out.

This may be apologetic, but we cannot expect Apple to be as "stable" as when they just had 1 iPhone, 1 iPad, 2 iMacs, 1 MacBook, 2 MacBook Pros, and 1 Mac Pro and that's it.

They have WAAAY more products (and services) now, and yet (all things considered) they work together better than ANYTHING else on the market.

So while yes, there are glitches and bugs, the quality is still there and in spades. I cannot believe how well it does work together sometimes, given all the moving parts involved.

Google is better at some specific things (Voice Assistant, Maps, etc.), but no one, NO ONE is even close to providing the ecosystem integration that Apple does, over so many devices, with the same level of ease-of-use.

It almost seems like the Mac is the odd man out; I rarely have problems with my iDevices integrating with each other.

iPhone, iPad, Pencil, AirPods, Watch, Beats cans, AirTags, iCloud Drive, Music, Photos, Notes, Messages, Family Sharing, Find My, Mail, Phone, Health, and Siri (for simple things like setting timers and alarms and hands-free calls).

All my mains, synced beautifully and worry-free.

I'm waaay too deep in Apple-land, and the competition is not even close to there yet.

So I cut Apple a little slack, at least until this AS transition is over and all these new(er) products mature a bit more.

 

[djlythium]

we cannot expect Apple to be as "stable" as when they just had 1 iPhone, 1 iPad, 2 iMacs, 1 MacBook, 2 MacBook Pros, and 1 Mac Pro and that's it.

I'm going to respectfully rebut here on some points here. ?

Why not? If you're right, that we cannot expect them to be as 'stable', I find that problematic because, IMO, it's indicative that the machine has gotten too big. Imagine, in your car, if you had to tap the brake or gas pedal twice for them to work, or sometimes the headlight switch doesn't turn on the headlights, and the only way to solve it is to toggle the vehicle off/on. Would you feel the same way? (I find this metaphor somewhat appropriate because we trust the correct operation of the car, and by extension, the manufacturer, to ensure our livelihood, just like we're entrusting these companies to ensure our digital livelihood).

In fact, I think we can, and should, hold Apple to a much higher standard because 1) they're one of the richest companies on the planet, with near unlimited access to resources, to make such stability a reality, 2) it wasn't too long ago that prior OSs were highly stable WHILE having a few small bugs; a few is fine, but when the scale, as you say, has become so massive, that's unacceptable, 3) we're paying a premium for their products and services. Absolutely, the 'norm' should be actually experiencing a bug/glitch, which is clearly not the case today.

and yet (all things considered) they work together better than ANYTHING else on the market.

How do you know this? Do you have quantified data to back this up? Or are you speaking from anecdotes?

no one, NO ONE is even close to providing the ecosystem integration that Apple does, over so many devices, with the same level of ease-of-use.

Again: quantified data, or anecdotes?

Thanks for your thoughts here! ??

 

[400]

I hope your wand is broken.

Seller stopped sending me replacements as no spells ever worked.
?
(My wallet hates the day as well, especially if the next announcement is a juicy desk top, this 24" might be traded up faster than a fast thing on the planet Fast. oh and new iPhone, darn it)

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I'm going to respectfully rebut here on some points here. ?

Why not? If you're right, that we cannot expect them to be as 'stable', I find that problematic because, IMO, it's indicative that the machine has gotten too big. Imagine, in your car, if you had to tap the brake or gas pedal twice for them to work, or sometimes the headlight switch doesn't turn on the headlights, and the only way to solve it is to toggle the vehicle off/on. Would you feel the same way? (I find this metaphor somewhat appropriate because we trust the correct operation of the car, and by extension, the manufacturer, to ensure our livelihood, just like we're entrusting these companies to ensure our digital livelihood).

Fair enough. Although currently my bugs and glitches are few and far between, I can accept that may not be true for everyone.

From what I can tell, there have ALWAYS been glitches here and there, especially with new product releases. There are simply more products to compound the amount and visibility of said issues given Apple's current position on the market.

I also don't make a living using Apple products. My Apple use has ALWAYS been at the consumer level, so I simply have not experienced the "decline" you refer to, nor the work-stopping issues.

In fact, I think we can, and should, hold Apple to a much higher standard because 1) they're one of the richest companies on the planet, with near unlimited access to resources, to make such stability a reality, 2) it wasn't too long ago that prior OSs were highly stable WHILE having a few small bugs; a few is fine, but when the scale, as you say, has become so massive, that's unacceptable, 3) we're paying a premium for their products and services. Absolutely, the 'norm' should be actually experiencing a bug/glitch, which is clearly not the case today.

How do you know this? Do you have quantified data to back this up? Or are you speaking from anecdotes?

Again: quantified data, or anecdotes?

Thanks for your thoughts here! ??

Yes, this is all anecdotal. But do you have data showing an actual decline in Apple quality and/or increase in the number of issues, past vs present, per product? Or is it anecdotal? I mean, the "gates" go waaay back. I've seen a lot of them in 20 years of diehard Apple fandom (until they killed my beloved 17" MBP).

I spent almost ten years in the Android/PC wilderness, and I came back to Apple for their (in my opinion) unmatched ecosystem. Sammy was the closest thing I could find, and even that was not as good.

However, if there is anything out there that matches the ease of integration of each and every one of these, I'd love to hear of it:

iPhone, iPad, Pencil, AirPods, Watch, Beats cans, AirTags, iCloud Drive, Music, Photos, Notes, Messages, Family Sharing, Find My, Mail, Phone, Health, and Siri (for simple things like setting timers and alarms and hands-free calls)

The center of my universe is the iPad. And there is NO tablet out there that matches it (in my opinion). Once you remove it (or any one component of the above, really) for something non-Apple, the hoop-jumping gets exponentially more difficult to approximate what is essentially frictionless with an all-Apple ecosystem.

So anecdotally, I'd take the (usually minor except for the butterfly keyboard) bugs over ecosystem integration friction, any day.

 

[djlythium]

But do you have data showing an actual decline in Apple quality and/or increase in the number of issues, past vs present, per product? Or is it anecdotal?

Fantastic rebuttal Q! ??????

So, I don't have a single source, no. That said, in my defense, my evidence would be the myriad blog-thread posts on this here site MR + other sites, as well as the various lawsuits. I can compile them if you'd like, but it would take me a while. To your point, I'm not just speaking from a 'FML' perspective. Indeed, I see my situation, but I would not use such a one sided context to generalize across y'all users.

RE the iPadcentric model of the universe: Maybe that's the next step after Copernicus? ??‍♂️? iPadcentrism? I feel you, though. I see what you mean. Personally, I'm waiting for the new iPad Mini. So, WRT the overall picture of my thoughts here, I'm not anti-apple focused, but rather Apple-Improvement focused. Absolutely, I think they can and should do better!

 

[George Dawes]

In the old days I’d upgrade my macs to the latest version knowing things would mostly be fine , nowadays I’m sticking to Mojave and avoiding big sur until I eventually upgrade the whole thing .

Not impressed with the fisher price dumbed down look of big sur tbh , reminds me of a poor imitation of windows xp . ?‍♀️

As for the hardware , don’t get me started on the utterly bizarre infatuation with everything being as slim as possible , it’s utterly bewildering ..

 

[400]

They could have done a really thin and no border, much as my LG TV is at the moment. I would have preferred that and don't know why they didn't.
But pretty much OK with the OS at each release, this step up from Catalina Photo's library to Big Sur and whatever I did borked my library a lot but absolutely cannot fault the support, ticket submitted and the phone was ringing before I got to the kettle.
But then I also back up a lot.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm getting disenchanted much much much more quickly with this story about them and scanning your photos whether you like it or not.

(it's not about this one issue - abhorrent child abuse pix - it's about the concept and them unilaterally deciding and the ramifications of normazling this sort of backdoor access to user data without explicit consent)

 

[Jessica Lares]

Yeah, I think it made most people sick to their stomach. This is where the whole vote with your wallet idea gets problematic because we aren't worried just for ourselves, but of the whole userbase, and the likeliness of this being implemented across platforms (even future/non-existing ones). It's different to not being able to sideload apps, install whatever OS you want, and soldered RAM.

 

[jagolden]

The wheels on the cart are pretty wobbly.
This is what happens when bean counters and committees and self interest take over.
It’s a modern version of what happened to Apple after Jobs was ousted.