Disk Utility Replacement???

Discussion in 'OS X El Capitan (10.11)' started by PCforever?, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. PCforever? macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    #1
    Ok... Im not a power user, but I did occasionally need to repair permissions etc on a portable hard drive... I go to use Disk Utility in El Capitan and the stupid Apple people have taken away all of its functionality!! I have a folder on a hard drive that I copied some files into, when I look in Finder cant see them... I go to recopy them and Finder says "cant be written (Error code -36)"... I cant repair permissions... First Aid is useless as says everythings OK WTF!!!

    Is there a Disk Utility replacement that you can recomend Or am I missing something... Cheers Gary
     
  2. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Location:
    Denmark
    #2
    -36 is a nasty one that usually indicates hardware failure.
     
  3. leman, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015

    leman macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #3
    Repairing permissions on an external drive does absolutely nothing. I love it how a person without any technical insight calls Apple - who has designed the system in the first place — "stupid".
     
  4. KALLT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    #4
    Can you post the entire error message? Which format does your external drive have?

    It serves as a reminder that Apple has done the right thing.
     
  5. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #5


    Sounds like your external drive has been failing for a while, your "repairing permissions" action won't haveing been doing anything other than allowing a further retry wait period, hence it started working again. Wait and try again and it might work but basically its time to replace that drive IMHO. Then perhaps learn what these tools do and are for, then yopu'll have less frustration blaming tools that don't work in the way you think.
     
  6. MacRobert10 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    #6
    Disk Utility's "repair" mode doesn't really repair anything, it's correcting possible index problems with your disk. It can do a number of operations but none of them actually "repair" anything. A dying drive is a dying drive.

    You could probably test the thing with something like Scannerz (http://scsc-online.com) but that would likely just confirm the existence of the problems and what type they are. The documents with that package have some info on how to attempt to remap bad sectors, which requires reformatting and zeroing the drive, but nowadays with drives being as cheap as they are, I would think few people even bother attempting it.

    You might want to check the how-to section of the website I just mentioned and read the article on bad hard drive symptoms. Maybe it will help you.
     
  7. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #7


    Even if that worked in this case, it wouldn't restore my confidence in any drive of that age TBH.
     
  8. MacRobert10 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    #8
    No. I think it's considered a "last ditch" effort. I could imagine doing that years ago, but not now.
     
  9. KALLT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    #9
    Why is everyone assuming that the drive is failing? A quick web search on error -36 reveals various causes, like this one.
     
  10. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #10
    Because it will still then be a 5yr old drive so personally my confidence in it going fwd would be low, I would call it quits now. What routine activity renders parts of filenames unreadable or unwritable? The fact that question has come up would tip me over on that age of drive and I would replace it before it becomes "Hey my drive just crashed, what now?"
     
  11. weinschela macrumors regular

    weinschela

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Location:
    New York suburb
    #11
    No matter what the OP problem, having an adequate disk utility rather than the dumbed down one in 10.11 is not a bad idea.
     
  12. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68020

    Ulenspiegel

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Location:
    Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
    #12
    If you need a disk utility replacement, then Onyx is your choice. I guess this was your question. ;)
     
  13. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #13
    Now Mac ownership is way beyond power users its a good idea IMHO to remove misleading options and limit riskier options to the CLI, that makes it harder for consumer users to cause issues while trying to fix others.
     
  14. LittleDavid macrumors newbie

    LittleDavid

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Location:
    South Philly
    #14
    A possibly stupid question, if I may. Isn't it SIP that makes repairing permissions redundant by protecting the files whose permissions might be damaged/changed by programs? And if that's the case, does disabling SIP, as I have done, create the need for repairing permissions again.

    I disabled SIP in order to delete a program, but I could enable again if needed since Onyx no longer has the repair permissions function. I'd be scared to use the previous version to do it tbh.
     
  15. whodatrr macrumors 6502a

    whodatrr

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    #15
    Not an expert here, and don't know much about how repair mode operates.

    What I do know is that I recently ran into an issue where the El-Cap Disk Utility GUI was unable to create a volume. Actually, it didn't even recognize the drive. But alas, the full Disk Utility still lived in the command line. Did a diskutil cs list to find the LVGUUID. Then did a diskutil createvolume against that ID, and had everything up and running just fine.

    Point is, while the GUI may be buggy and dumped down, the command line is still there.
     
  16. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #16


    Interesting as both "old" and "new" DU via GUI can't deal with Core Storage it seems, despite (obviously) the CLI tools being there, presume again this is to prevent to unwary/rookie messing with something deemed too complex?
     
  17. MrNomNoms macrumors 65816

    MrNomNoms

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    #17
    And to be honest, if you're a real hard core power user then you'll be willing to spend the time learning the ropes (that is why that particular user is considered a 'power user' because their willingness to learn new skills and have higher than average knowledge about using said operating system). I'm hoping that Microsoft does something similar by getting rid of the Management Console and replace it with PowerShell commands then create a user friendly front end for the average person which avoids mishaps - UI for end users, CLI for pro's.
     
  18. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #18
    Sum's it up nicely :)
     
  19. leman macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #19
    I still fail to see how the new Disk Utility is 'inadequate'. So, it has removed RAID UI, not a big deal. Other than that, it can do anything the old Disk Utility could do, and its certainly better organised.
     
  20. MrNomNoms macrumors 65816

    MrNomNoms

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    #20
    And to be honest the AppleRAID has more or less being deprecated as the industry is moving to hardware based RAID's such as Drobo 5D which avoids the many listed issues that AppleRAID has (Mac Performance Guide has outlined them).
     
  21. AVonGauss macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    #21
    That's an opinion and likely an inaccurate one. Hardware based RAID (aka a RAID card with a dedicated RAID processor) is actually what's on the decline, even in its home turf of enterprise in favor of software based RAID implementations. Drobo including the Drobo 5D does not use hardware RAID, but rather BeyondRAID which is simply the name they gave to their software implementation of RAID.
     
  22. MrNomNoms macrumors 65816

    MrNomNoms

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    #22
    True, I should have been more exact from the point of view the the RAID isn't being handled but the end users operating system but the devices own operating system.
     
  23. Ebenezum macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    #23
    Better organised is a matter of opinion. Previously I could see all drives in the same window but for some reason resizing window isn't possible in new Disk Utility and it means I can't see all of the drives I'm using for backups. Apparently Apple thinks no one is using many drives simultaneously?

    As for features I am not impressed by the way Apple removed option to burn disk images. Yes, I can use Finder for that but why remove usable features?

    Furthermore I don't understand what was the Apples goal in the redesign? In my opinion updates should provide better functionality, not strip away things that worked previously without warning!
     
  24. KALLT, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015

    KALLT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    #24
    Preventing window resizing is definitely a break with Apple's design conventions and there is really no excuse for this. I trust that Apple will fix this.

    I think we have to assume that Apple's goal was to make the program more approachable. For this they rewrote the user interface, but not the underlying code. I think they left features out that were available elsewhere. Finder can burn discs just as good and it kind of makes more sense to do it there, as you are doing something with a file, not manipulating a drive or disk image. Making Disk Utility more Finder-like was also a good idea and I really appreciate the clear separation between actions and content. The old version was a bit confusing sometimes, there were buttons and tabs everywhere and it wasn't always clear which part of the drive you were addressing or which 'mode' you were in. I know that some of my less tech-savvy friends found it intimidating.

    As an example (see image below): the partitioning panel was a bit weird. When you clicked on the partition tab, it looked as if you were already in the process of partitioning your drive. If you made one small change, you couldn't leave the panel without discarding the changes first. To that end there were two buttons at the bottom: revert and apply. This is a weird behaviour that you don't find anywhere else. Destructive actions are typically designated with separate panels, so that your workflow is interrupted and you become consciously aware that you are in fact doing something that has consequences. The new approach is, in my opinion, much better: you click on the partition button in the menu bar or toolbar, a panel slides open with a cancel and apply button. This gives the distinct impression that you are in an intermediate stage that you can always discard by clicking on cancel. It's like a save panel; it's familiar.

    There are other neat changes. For instance, when you remove a partition, the one that comes before it will just be upscaled by default instead of marked as free-space. I also like how particular actions are more focussed now, for instance, to format a drive you just select the drive or partition, click on the format button and it will present the relevant options to you. Another example: first aid now verifies and repairs in one go, removing needless choices the user has to make. The same with restoring: you select a drive or partition, click on restore and choose the image you want to to apply to it.

    As for RAID, I don't know why they removed it. Some here have said that it's not a very common function. If you accept the premise that Apple wants to keep the program straightforward, it could be an explanation. Also note that Apple does have a separate program for AppleRAID cards (RAID Utility) for Mac Pros. Maybe they actually want to relinquish that to professional third-party tools.

    iu.jpeg Screen Shot 2015-11-02 at 19.56.28.png
     
  25. MacRobert10 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    #25
    That's a good point. Another thing to watch out for if you're mixing and matching boot OS X drives, Mountain Lion and earlier cannot read some of the files on Yosemite and El Capitan because the resource fork compression is different and it will generate an I/O error.
     

Share This Page