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avatarbe

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 27, 2009
29
6
I have a late 2013 mac pro (the trashcan), running Catalina. I rarely upgrade to a new OS if it's not needed, and I've been really happy with both mac pro and catalina for the past years.

I just got my Mac Studio, and I was really excited to boot it up, but so far I'm a bit dissapointed. I tought I would really feel a big difference, but I'm not (I know i'm not using the Mac Studio what it was designed for, and I'm sure it is a lot faster than the mac pro for intensive tasks, but I supposed and hoped I would feel some difference in day-to-day tasks as well).

Instead, I'm a bit frustrated with monterey. Here are some things that are frustrating me, hoping for some solutions for it :)

+ The "complete" button for reminder notifications is now hidden behind an options button. I understand there is no solution for that
+ Same thing for facetime: Before you could just paste a phone number in there and hit call to call a regular (non facetime) number with your phone. Now you first have to hit 'new facetime' before you can do that
+ Activity montor takes more than 6 secons from click to actually displaying some info. Before it was nearly instant
+ Chrome (and some other apps) starts a little bit slower than on my mac pro. Its just a fraction of a second, but noticable.
+ Calling regular phone-numbers with facetime is not usable anymore. I sound very robot-like to the people I talk to. Network is exactly the same
+ The sorting of the results in spotlight is worse than before. On Catalina, most of the time the result I was looking for was in the top 3 items, now I even have to scroll to find what I'm looking for. This is on the exact same set of files btw, and indexing is completed...
+ Some font's in the UI (especially menu-items and window titles) look very blurry. I had to disable font-aliasing to make it somewhat doable
+ ...

So far, I didn't find 1 feature that I really missed in Catalina. It looks to me that things change just to change something, and not because it's better.

But hey, maybe I'm just getting old :)

So if anyone has some suggestions to resolve some of my issues, I'm all ears!
 

haralds

macrumors 68030
Jan 3, 2014
2,889
1,204
Silicon Valley, CA
I do think the notification UI is "not great."
I am running the 12.4 beta and it has been great and quite stable. Universal control is awesome!
I have a curved wide-screen display on my Mac Studio M1 Ultra, the MacBook Pro M1 13" to the its right, and two iPads to its left. I can move the cursors between then all and control them.
 

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,937
For me it serves me quite well and have no issues with it. And with chrome, I would never use it and that’s another story.
Good point. I refused to install Chrome on a new machine I acquired and it turned out to be such a wonderful decision that I went back to my old machine and reformatted it to remove every trace of Chrome. Not having Chrome ever touch a Mac is a completely different experience. Chrome is an infection that makes a Mac permenantly sick.


Edit: turns out I'm not imagining this. I found his article:


 
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MikeDr206

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2021
434
276
Frankly, it is what is is. I recall with Catalina, people would say how much superior Mojave is. And with Monterey, how much better Big Sur was. Snow Leopard always seems to come up, too.

upgrade, deal with the new things, and move on.
 

w5jck

Suspended
Nov 9, 2013
1,517
1,935
So just bend over and take whatever Apple shoves your way? That seems to be the common argument here. I’ve been using Macs since before some of you were even born. With the exception of Apple completely losing its way in the 1990s, the current crop of their OSes are the buggiest garbage I’ve ever seen from them. Voice your damn opinions loudly and maybe they will start to improve them. Act like mindless fan club members and they will continue to shove garbage our way. Apple has great devices, but their software looks like it was written by developers who can’t get a job with any decent company. I think they should tell most of them to just stay home without pay, and try to hire people who actually know how to program.
 

MikeDr206

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2021
434
276
So just bend over and take whatever Apple shoves your way? That seems to be the common argument here. I’ve been using Macs since before some of you were even born. With the exception of Apple completely losing its way in the 1990s, the current crop of their OSes are the buggiest garbage I’ve ever seen from them. Voice your damn opinions loudly and maybe they will start to improve them. Act like mindless fan club members and they will continue to shove garbage our way. Apple has great devices, but their software looks like it was written by developers who can’t get a job with any decent company. I think they should tell most of them to just stay home without pay, and try to hire people who actually know how to program.
Huh. I was born many years before Apple was founded. My first Mac was an SE. But whatevs.
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
20,664
4,086
New Zealand
So just bend over and take whatever Apple shoves your way? That seems to be the common argument here. I’ve been using Macs since before some of you were even born. With the exception of Apple completely losing its way in the 1990s, the current crop of their OSes are the buggiest garbage I’ve ever seen from them. Voice your damn opinions loudly and maybe they will start to improve them. Act like mindless fan club members and they will continue to shove garbage our way. Apple has great devices, but their software looks like it was written by developers who can’t get a job with any decent company. I think they should tell most of them to just stay home without pay, and try to hire people who actually know how to program.
Indeed. Something that drives me bonkers on this and other forums is variations of "I don't personally have a problem with this, therefore everyone else should be happy with it too". That is not helpful to anyone. Even if you personally avoid buggy features, that's no reason to discourage fixing them.
 

StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,125
2,162
I have a late 2013 mac pro (the trashcan), running Catalina. I rarely upgrade to a new OS if it's not needed, and I've been really happy with both mac pro and catalina for the past years.

I just got my Mac Studio, and I was really excited to boot it up, but so far I'm a bit dissapointed. I tought I would really feel a big difference, but I'm not (I know i'm not using the Mac Studio what it was designed for, and I'm sure it is a lot faster than the mac pro for intensive tasks, but I supposed and hoped I would feel some difference in day-to-day tasks as well).!

I use both a 2013 trash can and a Mac Studio, and there is a huge difference in basic responsiveness and scrolling between the two machines. It’s night and day difference in basic UI responsiveness, especially when there are background tasks going on. The Mac Studio wins hands down.

When I set the Studio up the first time, I used Migration Assitstant, which brought over a bunch of old user library items that caused issues. If you used migration assistant, try creating a new user account, and restart your machine logging into the new user. Launch safari, or notes, or any stock app and compare it to the trash can.

On the Studio you can go to the menu item in system preferences and “erase all contents and settings” if you need to start over and setup your machine without old cruft (if you used migration assistant).
 
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Aston441

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,937
So just bend over and take whatever Apple shoves your way? That seems to be the common argument here. I’ve been using Macs since before some of you were even born. With the exception of Apple completely losing its way in the 1990s, the current crop of their OSes are the buggiest garbage I’ve ever seen from them. Voice your damn opinions loudly and maybe they will start to improve them. Act like mindless fan club members and they will continue to shove garbage our way. Apple has great devices, but their software looks like it was written by developers who can’t get a job with any decent company. I think they should tell most of them to just stay home without pay, and try to hire people who actually know how to program.
OS 8 was far, far FAR far worse than any OS ever, with the exception of Windows 3.0
 

avatarbe

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 27, 2009
29
6
I use both a 2013 trash can and a Mac Studio, and there is a huge difference in basic responsiveness and scrolling between the two machines. It’s night and day difference in basic UI responsiveness, especially when there are background tasks going on. The Mac Studio wins hands down.

When I set the Studio up the first time, I used Migration Assitstant, which brought over a bunch of old user library items that caused issues. If you used migration assistant, try creating a new user account, and restart your machine logging into the new user. Launch safari, or notes, or any stock app and compare it to the trash can.

On the Studio you can go to the menu item in system preferences and “erase all contents and settings” if you need to start over and setup your machine without old cruft (if you used migration assistant).
But what OS where you running on the Trashcan? I suppose also Monterey?
I did a clean install on the Mac Studio, and I cannot say I see any difference in responsiveness.

As for just going with the new thing, I will, I don't have another choice, but it seems companies are not really interested in bringing the best software. It's not just apple. I for example upgraded to 1password7 (from I don't know what version, 5 or 6 I think). And I just don't understand some of the ui/ux descisions. Same for all google products.

They should just put 5 times the thinking time they put in now before building something. They are multi-billion companies, they can do it.
 
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Freeangel1

Suspended
Jan 13, 2020
1,191
1,753
Well at least your consuming a lot less electric with the Mac Studio than the 2013 Mac Pro.

I have 2 2013 Mac Pro's myself also running Catalina. I agree with you. I like using Catalina alot better than Big Sur and Monterey which are a bloated buggy mess. don't understand why they are 12GB in size?

Windows 10 and 11 are still both less than 5GB in size and they are both snappy and responsive.

I am going to wait for the M2 or M3 Ultra Mac Studio before I make the jump.

Hopefully they slim down the OS and fix all the bugs and memory leaks by then??
 
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StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,125
2,162
But what OS where you running on the Trashcan? I suppose also Monterey?
I did a clean install on the Mac Studio, and I cannot say I see any difference in responsiveness.

As for just going with the new thing, I will, I don't have another choice, but it seems companies are not really interested in bringing the best software. It's not just apple. I for example upgraded to 1password7 (from I don't know what version, 5 or 6 I think). And I just don't understand some of the ui/ux descisions. Same for all google products.

They should just put 5 times the thinking time they put in now before building something. They are multi-billion companies, they can do it.
High Sierra on the trash can.

if you don‘t notice how much more responsive the Mac Studio is to user input and scrolling, there must be a problem. My wife’s 24” iMac with a plain M1 is more responsive than the trashcan. It could never do the heavy lifting or have 6 Creative Cloud apps open at once, but scrolling in Safari (or any stock app) and responsiveness to user input is so much smoother on any M1 (including my 2021 iPad Pro) over any trash can — and I say that as someone who has enjoyed using the 2013 Mac Pro!
 
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Aston441

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,937
Frankly, it is what is is. I recall with Catalina, people would say how much superior Mojave is. And with Monterey, how much better Big Sur was. Snow Leopard always seems to come up, too.

upgrade, deal with the new things, and move on.

Snow leopard was amazing. Perhaps perfect, or as perfect as an operating system can be. Everything since has been "features" for marketing purposes. And MacOS is a mess now.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,104
5,447
ny somewhere
Snow leopard was amazing. Perhaps perfect, or as perfect as an operating system can be. Everything since has been "features" for marketing purposes. And MacOS is a mess now.
yes, why can't it be 2009 again... ? why anyone would give up icloud, better security, universal control, hide my email, a protected OS, etc etc, and a present & future with the silicon chips, to go back 13 years... is beyond me. but to each his (or her) own. ?
 

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,937
yes, why can't it be 2009 again... ? why anyone would give up icloud, better security, universal control, hide my email, a protected OS, etc etc, and a present & future with the silicon chips, to go back 13 years... is beyond me. but to each his (or her) own. ?
iCloud is subscription. I don’t subscribe to anything, I invest that money instead. Let’s see how many of those things I use… oh, I use none. Your better security is more ways for more entities to watch everything you do, everyone you meet, everywhere you go.

Your new silicon chips run modern bloat ware at the same speed as old chips ran less bloated ware two decades ago.

Forest/trees
 

swingerofbirch

macrumors 68040
yes, why can't it be 2009 again... ? why anyone would give up icloud, better security, universal control, hide my email, a protected OS, etc etc, and a present & future with the silicon chips, to go back 13 years... is beyond me. but to each his (or her) own. ?
I've been using OS X since Mac OS X Public Beta in 2000, and I used Macs long before that. The current state is garbage. The first party apps are garbage. Networking is garbage. I'm not sure what you mean by security. Apple's own OS updates sometimes brick Macs to the point they need repair, and of course now you can't even pull the drive out on Macs so you have to trust Apple with it when you bring it in for repair. How is that secure? What more could you protect from than a totally nonfunctional computer? The amount of advancement that happened in the early days of NeXTSTEP becoming OS X was at a staggering pace. It's now regressive. Third party developers run by just one person write better software than what is included by default.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,104
5,447
ny somewhere
I've been using OS X since Mac OS X Public Beta in 2000, and I used Macs long before that. The current state is garbage. The first party apps are garbage. Networking is garbage. I'm not sure what you mean by security. Apple's own OS updates sometimes brick Macs to the point they need repair, and of course now you can't even pull the drive out on Macs so you have to trust Apple with it when you bring it in for repair. How is that secure? What more could you protect from than a totally nonfunctional computer? The amount of advancement that happened in the early days of NeXTSTEP becoming OS X was at a staggering pace. It's now regressive. Third party developers run by just one person write better software than what is included by default.
i hear you, and disagree. i (mostly) like moneterey; i love universal control. my macs run fast, stable...not perfect, (but this is true in every OS version).

there are always bugs, issues. welcome to the world of OSes, and all software.

personally, i would not want to go back to 2009, to intel, the power pc, or... anywhere back.

advancement slows down, and this makes sense. everything cannot be an innovation; we start with 'revolutionary' ideas, then we develop those ideas more carefully, slowly.

like you, i have opinions. we both have opinions, and neither one of us (or basically, any one of us) can claim our opinions to be 'facts'. but if you think it's all garbage, buy an older mac on ebay, run an older OS, and enjoy yourself.

problem solved ?
 

jameslmoser

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2011
696
669
Las Vegas, NV
So just bend over and take whatever Apple shoves your way? That seems to be the common argument here. I’ve been using Macs since before some of you were even born. With the exception of Apple completely losing its way in the 1990s, the current crop of their OSes are the buggiest garbage I’ve ever seen from them. Voice your damn opinions loudly and maybe they will start to improve them. Act like mindless fan club members and they will continue to shove garbage our way. Apple has great devices, but their software looks like it was written by developers who can’t get a job with any decent company. I think they should tell most of them to just stay home without pay, and try to hire people who actually know how to program.
As a developer I know first hand more often than not its management. They need to stop with the yearly "upgrades" and actually release things when they are really ready. This yearly OS release is an obvious attempt to push new hardware and depreciate older hardware to try and generate more sales. They learned this from the iPhone and people who want the new phone every year.

The fact they tie application updates to OS versions is also ridiculous. They build it all as if its one monolithic program.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,104
5,447
ny somewhere
As a developer I know first hand more often than not its management. They need to stop with the yearly "upgrades" and actually release things when they are really ready. This yearly OS release is an obvious attempt to push new hardware and depreciate older hardware to try and generate more sales. They learned this from the iPhone and people who want the new phone every year.

The fact they tie application updates to OS versions is also ridiculous. They build it all as if its one monolithic program.
what do you expect? less planned obsolescence? apple is a corporation, and one of it's essential responsibilities is to make money. no money in free OS updates.

i, for one, am happy they keep things moving forward, and, as always, we can update/upgrade...or not. no one forces us to...
 

Jeven Stobs

Suspended
Apr 8, 2022
224
226
Frankly, it is what is is. I recall with Catalina, people would say how much superior Mojave is. And with Monterey, how much better Big Sur was. Snow Leopard always seems to come up, too.

upgrade, deal with the new things, and move on.
I disagree.
Monterey is an underperforming bug infested UI nightmare that we shouldn’t tolerate.
If we won’t see a considerable macOS improvement coming WWDC, like a Snow Leopard release, I might downgrade my Mac to Catalina, Sierra or High Sierra. I for my part won’t deal with this nonsense much longer.

I completely agree with @w5jck, just taking what is given to us by the all knowing and loving gods from the Cupertino spaceship is not an option.
 
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MBAir2010

macrumors 603
May 30, 2018
6,433
5,920
there
Monterey is an underperforming bug infested UI nightmare that we shouldn’t tolerate.
If we won’t see a considerable macOS improvement coming WWDC, like a Snow Leopard release, I might downgrade my Mac to Catalina, Sierra or High Sierra. I for my part won’t deal with this nonsense much longer.
Every Catalina upgrade on a spare drive last 1 day, the I'm back to Mojave.
I don't know how long Mojave will last so
i might just tolerate Monterey, Salton Sea, Whittier Bvd, Ojia, Sierra Madre Fault-line in the distant future
 

Jeven Stobs

Suspended
Apr 8, 2022
224
226
yes, why can't it be 2009 again... ? why anyone would give up icloud, better security, universal control, hide my email, a protected OS, etc etc, and a present & future with the silicon chips, to go back 13 years... is beyond me. but to each his (or her) own. ?
… ‘no one’ seriously wants to go back 13 years and just lose security and features of recent versions.
The point that made Snow Leopard so great isn’t when it was released, but why it was developed.
Leopard plagued OS X users so considerably that Apple took their resources to fix the OS for their yearly upgrade, instead of trying to patch a problem here and there and introducing new features like they do today.
They listened to their customers, especially those that were actually active in forums and wrote about and to them; noticed a problem, accepted the problem and reacted accordingly.
That’s what we are talking about here, proper action to fix long standing issues. Something Apple hasn’t done (with macOS) in a long while.
Pretty incredible that someone needs to point that out to you.
 
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