DNES-318350 in Q950

SirFoxx

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Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
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Galien, Michigan
I'm baaaaaaaack...heh

Hello. Its been quite some time since I've been on this forum due to college, and the scsi bus chip refusing to cooperate with anything. I recently picked up another gently used Q950 mobo, and it does work with both of the performa 6115cd 325mb hdd, along with a failing 2gb Fireball out of another performa I have. My intentions are to get this 18gb 68-pin hard drive working in my quadra so I can transfer all the info off of the other old hard drives, and so I can mess around with my quadra once again. When I left off, I made a 1gb HFS partition on it using my beige g3, hoping that maybe I can install OS7 on it using the 'hacked' version of the installer.

I lost the use of my macbook since my mom needed it, and I have since moved from my parents place. However, if needed, I can remote into my macbook and work with it if I can get ahold of my mom. I did clone the drive in hopes of getting it to work with my intel based laptop, though that seems like too much of a hassle to do at the moment. I am currently burning the old floppy images using rawwrite on my desktop, so the ability to modify the images are non-existent at the moment.

When we left off, my quadra would only see the dnes drive on ID 4, saying that there was a termination error in Mt. Everything, even though the ID was NOT set to ID 4. The equipment I have to work with are as follows:

x1 50-pin cable
x1 68-pin cable
x1 50-pin Passive + Active Terminator
x1 68-pin Active Terminator
x1 50 / 68 pin adapter
x1 50 / 68 / 80 pin adapter

I have tried different combinations of cables and terminators in hopes of getting the drive to work. Now the case is that whenever it is connected to the scsi cable, it will not spin up, even though the 'enable auto-spin' is jumpered on the jumper block. That is where I am stuck now. I was wondering if I can get advice as to how to maybe get the drive to spin up when plugged in to the scsi cable, and maybe getting an OS installed on it.

Side note: I picked up an Accelerator Power Pump overclock kit for my quadra. It was new in the box, and for only $20, it seems like a cool thing to try if I can get this mess to work.
 

MacTech68

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Mar 16, 2008
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Looking back at the old thread, what are the markings on RP7 next to the power connector on the motherboard.

I'm still leaning in the direction that Apple did something to the termination on the internal SCSI BUS to boost the data transfer rate (as noted in the Developer Tech Notes for the Q900 & Q950).

 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
2
Galien, Michigan
Looking back at the old thread, what are the markings on RP7 next to the power connector on the motherboard.

I'm still leaning in the direction that Apple did something to the termination on the internal SCSI BUS to boost the data transfer rate (as noted in the Developer Tech Notes for the Q900 & Q950).
Here is the resistor pack. It is yellow on this board. The markings are as follows:

SOGC-2001
87ROF
DALE9305

According to the Vishay data sheet, it is a 20-pin, bussed, 87-ohm? +-1%(10R0 = 10ohm, 87R0 = 87 or 870?) resistor pack. Hope this helps.

 
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MacTech68

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Mar 16, 2008
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Australia, Perth
Same as the black resistor pack, 19 x 87 Ohm resistors tied to pin 20.

Can you get a pic of the Apple terminator - specifically the printing on the black resistor pack (one should be visible, the other may be unreadable).

I've been reading up on the 53C96 and it does not reference such a low pull up/pull down resistor - Apple must have done their own research and testing for the internal bus, and I suspect the original Q900/Q950/WS95 terminator is vital.

Interestingly, however, is that the external SCSI BUS is terminated on the motherboard in a conventional passive way. So, using the 'External BUS' 50pin connector (nearest the rear edge of the motherboard) with a passive (220 ohm, 330 ohm) terminator on the end of the cable SHOULD work.

According to Apple Tech Procedures Macintosh Family Volume Two March 1992, the Quadra 900's internal SCSI BUS uses 'Active' termination, so I assume the 950 is the same. So either there is some definitive incompatibility to the specific drive or.... we're missing something entirely. :rolleyes: :oops: :(
 
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SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
2
Galien, Michigan
Same as the black resistor pack, 19 x 87 Ohm resistors tied to pin 20.

Can you get a pic of the Apple terminator - specifically the printing on the black resistor pack (one should be visible, the other may be unreadable).

I've been reading up on the 53C96 and it does not reference such a low pull up/pull down resistor - Apple must have done their own research and testing for the internal bus, and I suspect the original Q900/Q950/WS95 terminator is vital.

Interestingly, however, is that the external SCSI BUS is terminated on the motherboard in a conventional passive way. So, using the 'External BUS' 50pin connector (nearest the rear edge of the motherboard) with a passive (220 ohm, 330 ohm) terminator on the end of the cable SHOULD work.

According to Apple Tech Procedures Macintosh Family Volume Two March 1992, the Quadra 900's internal SCSI BUS uses 'Active' termination, so I assume the 950 is the same. So either there is some definitive incompatibility to the specific drive or.... we're missing something entirely. :rolleyes: :oops: :(
Sure. I'll have to grab a pic when I'm home from work. I'll also see if the Apple drive works with the active terminator I have as well. I'll also try the external connector and see if that works.
 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
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Galien, Michigan
Good news! I got it to work!!! I hooked it up to the external scsi connector, and used the 50-pin cable, connected it to the 50/68/80 adapter, and used the 68 pin lvd/se terminator as well. I left off the passive 50 pin apple connector, and disabled SE mode on the hard drive. I got the hard drive partitioned into 4 4gb pieces. I tried the OS7.0 installer, and instead of trying to install to the individual partition, it was looking at the whole size of the hard drive, and saying it was too big. I then tried the 7.5.3 installer, and it made it all the way through to the 7th disk, then when it went to finish up with disk 1, it failed, wasting about 45 minutes of my time. I will retry the install tomorrow, and see if it works. If it doesnt....well I will find a way! I didn't come this far to fail now!
 

SirFoxx

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Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
2
Galien, Michigan
Got it installed! On boot, the system was bombing due to the scsi manager 4.3. I removed it from the extensions folder and now it boots fine.

Since I am unable to modify disk images, and copy files properly to floppies, is there a some way to set up an ftp or file sharing server locally so I can transfer the files with my pc without having to use floppy disks? I am currently down to two good floppies, and I would like to start installing "drivers" for my supermac thunder 24 and my PPC card.
 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
2
Galien, Michigan
You have a G3 Desktop, yes? Are there no SCSI drives with a bootable Q950 System?
I do, however, it is back at my parents place. I found a very in depth article from the guy who, on the forum awhile ago was posting videos of him connecting his Apple watch to his Mac 512k, on how to setup an ftp server on Windows 7, and how to (i think) get it to work with the old Macs. I will look more into it tomorrow.
 

havokalien

macrumors 6502a
Apr 27, 2006
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Kelso, Wa
Why not just get an ethernet adapter on the 950, get it on a network and download the software from say a network hard disk? or shared computer?
 

SirFoxx

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Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
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Galien, Michigan
Why not just get an ethernet adapter on the 950, get it on a network and download the software from say a network hard disk? or shared computer?
That is what I'm attempting to do. I have an AAUI adapter, however my q950 isn't located near the router, so I have to go buy a patch cable to connect it to my Windows desktop and go from there.
 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
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Galien, Michigan
Another question -- turns out when I installed the OS the first time, it was 7.5, not 7.5.3. I have found a way to copy all of the 19 .smi files to the mac using a program for windows called Transmac. I installed it, and now when I go to boot, it says that "The system file on this startup disk may be damaged. The Installer can be used to repair this disk". I have tried starting with no extensions, but it resulted in the same error. Any ideas as what to do next...?
 

SirFoxx

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Jul 9, 2012
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Galien, Michigan
I actually found that link and made the flippy. However, once I've booted from it, I'm not sure what to do once I'm at the desktop..
 

MacTech68

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Mar 16, 2008
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You should grab the 7.5.3 install (Apple's free release of 7.5.x) unless that's what you're using. If you're using flat 7.5.0 and already have all the updaters ready, then that's fine too.

If you can drop it uncompressed into a second volume or hard drive, boot from Network Install floppy and run the install.
 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
2
Galien, Michigan
You should grab the 7.5.3 install (Apple's free release of 7.5.x) unless that's what you're using. If you're using flat 7.5.0 and already have all the updaters ready, then that's fine too.

If you can drop it uncompressed into a second volume or hard drive, boot from Network Install floppy and run the install.
Wanna hear something funny? I had the same issue with 7.5.5 with it crashing right at boot. If you booted with extensions off, it gave an address error. So I said, F*** IT, I'm plugging it back into the main scsi header. And guess what. IT WORKED. ARGHHHH Gosh I hate scsi sometimes.

Anyways, onto my current problem. Yay?

I have been trying to setup an FTP server on my desktop and have my Q950 connect to it. I got the IP's setup, and the computers are talking to each other (under ethernet adapter settings, it is showing that my computer is receiving packets from q950, and I can successfully ping the q950). I installed Fetch 2.1.2 as the ftp client on the q950. Now, on the windows side, I have set the ftp server up with the most basic login requirements (username and password are 123). On fetch, it says error on password:user cannot log in. I have tried removing the password and it says "error on password: user cannot log in, home directory inaccessible". Not too sure where to go from here since my networking skills arent the greatest when it comes to dealing with servers of any sorts.

Here is the link I am using to try and guide me. Warning -- there is a lot of text to sort through.

http://www.applefool.com/se30/

EDIT: Turns out I had to share the folder to everyone, then it started working in fetch. WOOOOO!!! Now I can share files between my 1992 Quadra 950 and my Modern AMD Desktop. Oh the joys of technology! (Even if its a bitch to setup lol)
 
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MacTech68

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Ahh, SCSI Voodoo. It's possible that the termination was marginal on the other port.

In any case, cross fingers it keeps working.

Just for future reference, I'd still like a pic of the Apple terminator. ;)
 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
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Galien, Michigan
Gah, everytime I want to do something with my mac, another issue arises. This time its that whenever I boot up my q950 with the ppc 601 card, it crashes, usually with an error 11. With the extensions off, itll either boot fine, or make it to the desktop before bombing saying that the finder is what caused it to crash. From what I read, error 11 indicates a hardware issue..? I tried booting off the hard drive that I pulled from a ppc performa, and it loaded it with no issues. It is running 7.5.1....Could it be that 7.5.5 has too much proprietary 68k software for the ppc card to work right? Do you think 7.6.1 would remedy these issues?

Here is the pic of the terminator. If you need it with the cap values as well, lmk.

 
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MacTech68

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Do you have the "Power Macintosh Card" control panel installed ? If so, try turning off the card in the control panel.

"Power Macintosh Card" control panel.jpg


Remember, the software on/off switch only changes the state when you shutdown - ie NOT with a restart.

The state of Virtual Memory may also affect the stability. Generally, the card works better with Virtual Memory "ON", but older 68K only applications may run better with VM "OFF".

As for what system works best with the card, that's hard to say.
 

SirFoxx

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
133
2
Galien, Michigan
Do you have the "Power Macintosh Card" control panel installed ? If so, try turning off the card in the control panel.

View attachment 696443

Remember, the software on/off switch only changes the state when you shutdown - ie NOT with a restart.

The state of Virtual Memory may also affect the stability. Generally, the card works better with Virtual Memory "ON", but older 68K only applications may run better with VM "OFF".

As for what system works best with the card, that's hard to say.
That's the one! Do you happen to have a download link for it?