Do appleTV’s sell well?

[HDFan]

All that said, I hope that Apple doesn't drop the Apple TV anytime soon,

The situation is more complex than just Apple TV sales numbers. The Apple TV is part of an ecosystem, which includes the hardware, Apple TV+, iTunes Movies and TV shows. The Apple TV app is appearing on more and more devices - Roku, TVs, Playstation, etc. so the universe itself is expanding. Apple wants to expand this universe as much as possible. [I wonder how much they are paying these vendors to put the app on their device?]. So it might be possible for Apple to say "I don't want to deal with it, let someone else handle it". That's what they did with Airports.

The airport had reasonably easy to use replacements. Apple is limited by the hardware capabilities of the other vendors in terms of what can be supported. And as we know with the auto negotiations, Apple wants to be in control and have things done their way. Automakers don't want to give up their autonomy and just be Apple's manufacturer.

So the Apple TV hardware is where they have complete control, and can leverage it to fully use the Apple ecosystem, which the other vendors can't. So sales numbers may not be as important to them as creating just another way of locking people into the ecosystem and promoting sales of other devices.

 

[decafjava]

It's probably selling well enough to justify a new model, but that's just gut reaction.

One factor that's not often mentioned is that some cable TV providers supply Apple TV as their "cable box." I suspect that market alone would be enough to justify continuing the product line, and it probably doesn't appear in the pie charts when analysts gauge retail sales.

Right, exactly my case situation though I had the previous ATV box which actually had a better remote IMO.

 

[Bill Kid]

we might as well look at main competition before giving a possible answer.
1. Roku ultra, supports airplay2 and bluetooth headphones that come bundled with the package and can be connected on the smart remote. not a gamers console but you can not beat its price
2. Google TV (stadia games and few android games) has no airplay but has alternative chromecast support (comes with usb type C and supports few hubs for expansion purposes). supports bluetooth controllers for android games and stadia controllers. not many android games are available in the play store
3. Fire TV 4k max by amazon (their mistake was not to offer its product with usb type C port) they offer something similar to google stadia called Luna. Will wait for a better spec hardware to appear before I buy it. hardware cpu and gpu performance is similar to chromecast supporting cloud gaming in 4k.

I would say 1 and 2, depending on market availability and pricing strategies, are the market leaders.

if apple offered the m1 or m2 chip on its apple tv maybe that would create a different niche market and promote sales. apple tv usually comes with older than latest iphone/ ipad pro chip technology which I am not excited about. synergy with apple store games is a consideration so is bluetooth 5.2 support, type C support, ethernet 1ghz, wifi 6 etc. yes it could become a great app store games platform other than playing movies in 4k with hdr10+ Dolby vision dolby atmos HLG support etc that all previous 4k tv media players also support.

I have not purchase Fire TV 4k max either because it has no usb C connection and the international version was not discounted in Christmas vs USA vs UK vs German Versions which were, not that I need one since I purchased Google TV locally Roku ultra 2020 from amazon US, Roku express 4K from amazon DE.

 

[jwolf6589]

we might as well look at main competition before giving a possible answer.
1. Roku ultra, supports airplay2 and bluetooth headphones that come bundled with the package and can be connected on the smart remote. not a gamers console but you can not beat its price
2. Google TV (stadia games and few android games) has no airplay but has alternative chromecast support (comes with usb type C and supports few hubs for expansion purposes). supports bluetooth controllers for android games and stadia controllers. not many android games are available in the play store
3. Fire TV 4k max by amazon (their mistake was not to offer its product with usb type C port) they offer something similar to google stadia called Luna. Will wait for a better spec hardware to appear before I buy it. hardware cpu and gpu performance is similar to chromecast supporting cloud gaming in 4k.

I would say 1 and 2, depending on market availability and pricing strategies, are the market leaders.

if apple offered the m1 or m2 chip on its apple tv maybe that would create a different niche market and promote sales. apple tv usually comes with older than latest iphone/ ipad pro chip technology which I am not excited about. synergy with apple store games is a consideration so is bluetooth 5.2 support, type C support, ethernet 1ghz, wifi 6 etc. yes it could become a great app store games platform other than playing movies in 4k with hdr10+ Dolby vision dolby atmos HLG support etc that all previous 4k tv media players also support.

I have not purchase Fire TV 4k max either because it has no usb C connection and the international version was not discounted in Christmas vs USA vs UK vs German Versions which were, not that I need one since I purchased Google TV locally Roku ultra 2020 from amazon US, Roku express 4K from amazon DE.

The AppleTV OS does not need the latest chip technology as it would be overkill.

 

[Roy Hobbs]

I am talking about the hardware not the streaming service.

As you said to some one else "learn to read"

 

[Bill Kid]

The AppleTV OS does not need the latest chip technology as it would be overkill.

but maybe one should have the option of using his apple tv as a mini pc?? just going a step further to give some meaning to purchasing an apple tv which can do more than the competition especially in terms of graphics and functionality.

 

[jwolf6589]

but maybe one should have the option of using his apple tv as a mini pc?? just going a step further to give some meaning to purchasing an apple tv which can do more than the competition especially in terms of graphics and functionality.

I don’t need my appleTV to be a Mac also. I need it to be a appleTV and run TVOS.

 

[Bill Kid]

why market share is not bigger in percentage terms??
1. competition
2. lower spec than current iphone
3. price
4. does not support hdr10+

they should find the right mix with the right specs because the competition as a tv media player with 4k support is there at a 2-3-4 times lower price. I am not convinced yet. can you argue why one should buy an apple tv?

 

[jwolf6589]

why market share is not bigger in percentage terms??
1. competition
2. lower spec than current iphone
3. price
4. does not support hdr10+

they should find the right mix with the right specs because the competition as a tv media player with 4k support is there at a 2-3-4 times lower price. I am not convinced yet. can you argue why one should buy an apple tv?

To use the apple ecosystem. To see one’s photos on a big TV. To play podcasts. To watch all my purchased movies and tv shows on a big tv not a tiny MacBook Pro monitor. AppleTV +. Airplay, etc…

 

[elbert]

Looking towards the day for a A15-based AppleTV!

 

[jwolf6589]

why market share is not bigger in percentage terms??
1. competition
2. lower spec than current iphone
3. price
4. does not support hdr10+

they should find the right mix with the right specs because the competition as a tv media player with 4k support is there at a 2-3-4 times lower price. I am not convinced yet. can you argue why one should buy an apple tv?

Also forgot to mention the apps. I use MLB and watch games on a big tv not a tiny MacBook Pro monitor.

 

[jwolf6589]

Looking towards the day for a A15-based AppleTV!

Not needed. A12 is plenty enough to run TV OS. In fact I have the HD 32GB model and it’s nearly as fast with the old A8 CPU.

 

[elbert]

Not needed. A12 is plenty enough to run TV OS. In fact I have the HD 32GB model and it’s nearly as fast with the old A8 CPU.

I want A15 to lower power consumption to something like 1W.

 

[jwolf6589]

I want A15 to lower power consumption to something like 1W.

AppleTV does not run on a battery.

 

[Juicy Box]

The AppleTV OS does not need the latest chip technology as it would be overkill.

It totally depends on what Apple wants the Apple TV to be.

The way it is right now, the Apple TV is an overpowered, but overpriced streaming box. The competitions' current devices have slower chips than the A10X in the ATVK1. So, you are right, as a streaming box, the latest chip would be overkill because the A10X and A12 is overkill.

If Apple wanted to seriously invest in gaming, this would justify more powerful HW, but I have my doubts Apple will ever do that.

But to your original question, does the Apple TV "sell well", you need to define what exactly you mean by "sell well".

If you mean compared to other streaming devices, then no, the ATV does not sell well at all.
If you mean does it sell well enough to generate a profit for Apple, then maybe, but only Apple would know for sure.

Perhaps a new model is all rumor is because Apple TV’s do not sell well.

The ATV4K2 was released a month after you posted this, so it obviously was not just a rumor, but I don't think that the ATV's marketshare has expanded much since the release.

I don't think an incremental HW update alone would be enough to increase sales, and since the ATV4K2 with the A12 is about on par with the original ATV4K with the A10X when it comes to power, I don't think that helped the marketshare either.

To get more marketshare, Apple will have to make the ATV special or unique, which right now, it really isn't that special, and there isn't too much about it to differentiate it from the competition. Much cheaper devices can do mostly what the ATV can do, but for much cheaper.

Apple will also have to do a lot more promotion and advertising. Compare the advertising for the Apple TV versus The Apple Watch or Apple TV+.

Apple hardly ever advertises the Apple TV, and most non-tech people have never heard of it.

Apple could also just concentrate on the streaming abilities of the ATV, and release a cheaper version.

Apple could go the opposite as well, and release a gaming-focused ATV, getting developers on-board early on for ports and exclusives. Maybe VR/AR as well.


The thing is, I don't think Apple cares about the ATV, nor tvOS. Maybe they crunched the numbers and determined that it just won't be worth the investment, or maybe they feel like it is too risky trying to compete in an already saturated market.

Apple had their chance at making the ATV the must-have entertainment box with the launch of tvOS back in 2015, and they really screwed it, losing any momentum and excitement for the platform. Apple has since shown a lack of interest in tvOS, and the few gaming developers that decided to give the tvOS a try has started to flee the platform.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the current ATV4K2 will eventually be discontinued with no replacement.

 

[jwolf6589]

It totally depends on what Apple wants the Apple TV to be.

The way it is right now, the Apple TV is an overpowered, but overpriced streaming box. The competitions' current devices have slower chips than the A10X in the ATVK1. So, you are right, as a streaming box, the latest chip would be overkill because the A10X and A12 is overkill.

If Apple wanted to seriously invest in gaming, this would justify more powerful HW, but I have my doubts Apple will ever do that.

But to your original question, does the Apple TV "sell well", you need to define what exactly you mean by "sell well".

If you mean compared to other streaming devices, then no, the ATV does not sell well at all.
If you mean does it sell well enough to generate a profit for Apple, then maybe, but only Apple would know for sure.


The ATV4K2 was released a month after you posted this, so it obviously was not just a rumor, but I don't think that the ATV's marketshare has expanded much since the release.

I don't think an incremental HW update alone would be enough to increase sales, and since the ATV4K2 with the A12 is about on par with the original ATV4K with the A10X when it comes to power, I don't think that helped the marketshare either.

To get more marketshare, Apple will have to make the ATV special or unique, which right now, it really isn't that special, and there isn't too much about it to differentiate it from the competition. Much cheaper devices can do mostly what the ATV can do, but for much cheaper.

Apple will also have to do a lot more promotion and advertising. Compare the advertising for the Apple TV versus The Apple Watch or Apple TV+.

Apple hardly ever advertises the Apple TV, and most non-tech people have never heard of it.

Apple could also just concentrate on the streaming abilities of the ATV, and release a cheaper version.

Apple could go the opposite as well, and release a gaming-focused ATV, getting developers on-board early on for ports and exclusives. Maybe VR/AR as well.


The thing is, I don't think Apple cares about the ATV, nor tvOS. Maybe they crunched the numbers and determined that it just won't be worth the investment, or maybe they feel like it is too risky trying to compete in an already saturated market.

Apple had their chance at making the ATV the must-have entertainment box with the launch of tvOS back in 2015, and they really screwed it, losing any momentum and excitement for the platform. Apple has since shown a lack of interest in tvOS, and the few gaming developers that decided to give the tvOS a try has started to flee the platform.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the current ATV4K2 will eventually be discontinued with no replacement.

Who cares about gaming!

 

[jwolf6589]

It totally depends on what Apple wants the Apple TV to be.

The way it is right now, the Apple TV is an overpowered, but overpriced streaming box. The competitions' current devices have slower chips than the A10X in the ATVK1. So, you are right, as a streaming box, the latest chip would be overkill because the A10X and A12 is overkill.

If Apple wanted to seriously invest in gaming, this would justify more powerful HW, but I have my doubts Apple will ever do that.

But to your original question, does the Apple TV "sell well", you need to define what exactly you mean by "sell well".

If you mean compared to other streaming devices, then no, the ATV does not sell well at all.
If you mean does it sell well enough to generate a profit for Apple, then maybe, but only Apple would know for sure.


The ATV4K2 was released a month after you posted this, so it obviously was not just a rumor, but I don't think that the ATV's marketshare has expanded much since the release.

I don't think an incremental HW update alone would be enough to increase sales, and since the ATV4K2 with the A12 is about on par with the original ATV4K with the A10X when it comes to power, I don't think that helped the marketshare either.

To get more marketshare, Apple will have to make the ATV special or unique, which right now, it really isn't that special, and there isn't too much about it to differentiate it from the competition. Much cheaper devices can do mostly what the ATV can do, but for much cheaper.

Apple will also have to do a lot more promotion and advertising. Compare the advertising for the Apple TV versus The Apple Watch or Apple TV+.

Apple hardly ever advertises the Apple TV, and most non-tech people have never heard of it.

Apple could also just concentrate on the streaming abilities of the ATV, and release a cheaper version.

Apple could go the opposite as well, and release a gaming-focused ATV, getting developers on-board early on for ports and exclusives. Maybe VR/AR as well.


The thing is, I don't think Apple cares about the ATV, nor tvOS. Maybe they crunched the numbers and determined that it just won't be worth the investment, or maybe they feel like it is too risky trying to compete in an already saturated market.

Apple had their chance at making the ATV the must-have entertainment box with the launch of tvOS back in 2015, and they really screwed it, losing any momentum and excitement for the platform. Apple has since shown a lack of interest in tvOS, and the few gaming developers that decided to give the tvOS a try has started to flee the platform.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the current ATV4K2 will eventually be discontinued with no replacement.

If this were true then apple would not be releasing updates with new features which they do.

 

[Juicy Box]

Who cares about gaming!

Gaming is a $200,000,000,000 industry, so lots of people, including Apple.

 

[Juicy Box]

If this were true then apple would not be releasing updates with new features which they do.

tvOS has barely changed since its launch in 2015.

There has been changes with the HW, but minor, and not often.

 

[jwolf6589]

tvOS has barely changed since its launch in 2015.

There has been changes with the HW, but minor, and not often.

Oh everything is just your opinion. You don’t like the appleTV I get it.

 

[jwolf6589]

Gaming is a $200,000,000,000 industry, so lots of people, including Apple.

This amazes me. Don’t people have better things to do with their time besides game? What about reading books? I have a 2003 Gameboy advance and barley use it but it’s my gaming machine when I do decide to game which is rare. Batteries last forever.

 

[Juicy Box]

You don’t like the appleTV I get it.

No, you really don't....

This is just a few comments from different ATV threads from only the past year:

you will still be getting the best device on the market.

The Apple TV 4K is by far the best streamer on the market. The speed and UI is much better than the competition.

I am a long time Apple TV user, and still think that it is the best performing option when compared to the competition.

I personally think that the Apple TV and tvOS has the best UI of the streaming boxes, and even at 4 years old, the ATV4K1 with the A10X is still faster than the chips of the competition.

IMO, the Apple TV 4K is still the best streaming box, it is just overpriced for what is currently does.

Overall, the ATV is a lot more polished device, imo.

for viewing content, the Apple TV is the best, imo.

It is okay to like something, or think something is better than the competition, but recognize problems with it.

For example, the Turbo SW20 in my profile photo, when it launched its biggest competitor was the Mazda MX-5. The SW20 objectively beat out the MX-5 in just about every category with the exception of weight, and it was slightly more expensive.

More subjectively, the SW20 had better looks and was more exotic.

Still, the MX-5 outsold the SW20 by a lot, the SW20 was discontinued and most people know what the MX-5 is. When I drive my now 31 year old SW20, I am often asked "Is that a Supra?".

The "best" doesn't mean perfect. The "best" doesn't necessarily mean it sells the best.

Finally, it is okay to point out flaws on something that you love.

 

[jwolf6589]

No, you really don't....

This is just a few comments from different ATV threads from only the past year:








It is okay to like something, or think something is better than the competition, but recognize problems with it.

For example, the Turbo SW20 in my profile photo, when it launched its biggest competitor was the Mazda MX-5. The SW20 objectively beat out the MX-5 in just about every category with the exception of weight, and it was slightly more expensive.

More subjectively, the SW20 had better looks and was more exotic.

Still, the MX-5 outsold the SW20 by a lot, the SW20 was discontinued and most people know what the MX-5 is. When I drive my now 31 year old SW20, I am often asked "Is that a Supra?".

The "best" doesn't mean perfect. The "best" doesn't necessarily mean it sells the best.

Finally, it is okay to point out flaws on something that you love.

It’s all just your opinion.

 

[Juicy Box]

This amazes me. Don’t people have better things to do with their time besides game?

People are into what they are into, and you shouldn't knock em just for that.

I am sure there is plenty of stuff I am into that others would not understand, cars being one of them.

Also, I am sure that there is plenty of stuff you are into that others might not understand. I think I remember a few posts of yours mentioning wanting to get an ATV for your church. And maybe one about the leadership at your church not like Apple products or Macs (it was a while ago).

People could ask "Don't people have better things to do with their time besides ATVs, church, Macs, and Apple products?". You could also add "post on Mac Rumors", as well.

We all are into different things...

It’s all just your opinion.

Yeah, some of the stuff I post is more subjective, and some of the stuff I post is more objective. You have also posted your opinion on this thread and else where. Not sure what your point is.

 

[jwolf6589]

People are into what they are into, and you shouldn't knock em just for that.

I am sure there is plenty of stuff I am into that others would not understand, cars being one of them.

Also, I am sure that there is plenty of stuff you are into that others might not understand. I think I remember quite a few posts of yours mentioning wanting to get an ATV for your church. And maybe one about the leadership at your church not like Apple products or Macs (it was a while ago).

People could ask "Don't people have better things to do with their time besides ATVs, church, Macs, and Apple products?". You could also add "post on Mac Rumors", as well.

We all are into different things...



Yeah, some of the stuff I post is more subjective, and some of the stuff I post is more objective. You have also posted your opinion on this thread and else where. Not sure what your point is.

It is true that the IT TECH leadership at my church does not like apple products.