Do I have a defect? I can't tell

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by poopieboy, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. poopieboy macrumors newbie

    Aug 22, 2009
    Hi everyone. I have a mid 2010 13" MBP which I don't really use too much because I end up using my work laptop a lot instead.

    The other day i was using my MBP and stepped out to grab lunch and when I came back I couldn't click my trackpad. I noticed the trackpad was sticking up past the frame just slightly and so thought it was a swollen battery.

    I took it to the Apple store the next day and they ran a diagnostic, told me that my battery is no longer good and I need to shell out $129 for a new one. I asked what the expected life of the battery should be and the tech said about 700 to 1000 cycles. I showed her that my cycle count was only 403 and that I just simply don't understand how it could go bad all of a sudden. She said its not a defect and my battery just happened to have a short life span and insisted I pay the $129 to replace it.

    I really feel that given the amount of use and level of care that I've given this thing, along with Apple's published battery life statistics, my battery would be considered by any reasonable person to be an outlier and not the norm, and therefore should be considered defective and be replaced for free or at least at a reduced price. Am I completely wrong here? Or if I happen to be right? How do I make it 100% clear to them?

    Any help means a lot - thanks everyone.
  2. troop231 macrumors 603

    Jan 20, 2010
    I've heard some (not all) Genius's will replace your battery for free if it's nowhere near the claimed 1000 cycles. That's what I plan on doing with my 2011 MBP with battery issue; 128 cycles and 92% dead.
  3. poopieboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Aug 22, 2009
    So what can I really do besides claim that I've also "heard" that some geniuses replace it? I know this is the case but it just doesn't sound convincing and I don't think it makes too much sense to keep going to different Apple stores to see who will be that *one* genius that replaces it for free.
  4. Shrink macrumors G3


    Feb 26, 2011
    New England, USA
    My experience was that if the device is beyond the one year warrantee (even with Applecare), it is considered a consumable and will not be replaced free. If the battery needs replacement within the first year, it is considered defective, and replaced free. But beyond one year, irrespective of the number of cycles, the battery is considered normal and, therefore, one must pay for the replacement of a consumable.

    But it's always worth a shot at asking for a free replacement...nothing to lose.:D
  5. kage207 macrumors 6502a

    Jul 23, 2008
    Listen, you don't deserve to get it for free. You don't get to demand for things to be free. It is outside the warranty coverage. Get over it. If you get a genius or manager who will do it for free then they are doing you a favor. Otherwise, get over it.

    Yes, they maybe will. Uh, 92% of its health? Or do you have a screenshot to prove it only holds 8% of the original capacity after 128 cycles? Did you leave it plugged in all the time and never exercise your battery? Please show your claim.
  6. troop231 macrumors 603

    Jan 20, 2010
    Yeah :) I suppose it also helps when you live hours away from the Apple store and only come there for swapping out defective equipment lol. Also picking up my brand new rMBP before the Genius appointment so hopefully they'll replace the battery.
  7. Alexjones macrumors 6502

    May 28, 2010
    Outstanding avatar Shrink. Great movie (The 1932 original)
  8. Shrink macrumors G3


    Feb 26, 2011
    New England, USA


    Actually, it's a selfie...I thought the plastic surgery went rather well!:p
  9. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    You're out of warranty and while I feel for you, the computer/battery is 3 years old. Apple is under no compulsion to replace a component that was used for 3 years. Batteries age and fail, as Shrink stated they're consumable. Cycle counts are worth the paper they're printed on, so to speak. They mean nothing other then having some people hung up on the value.

    Your battery lasted 3 years, not great but not horrendous.
  10. snaky69 macrumors 603

    Mar 14, 2008
    You did not have a defect. Lithium batteries swell, all of them, either after X amount of time, or X amount of cycles, whichever comes first.

    Said X depends on the battery, some last longer than others, but they all end up doing it.
  11. jondunford macrumors 6502


    Oct 22, 2013
    Going for a poo Moderator
  12. sabbyp macrumors regular

    Oct 26, 2013
    if the lifetime of the battery is rated at 1000 cycles, and it's only going to give you half of that, that's considered a defect and I would complain about it.
  13. BlackbookGuy macrumors regular

    Feb 21, 2012

    I don't know, but this sounds like a classic right-wing argument that giant, wealthy corporations need protection from consumers and not the other way around. The battery sounds like a dud to me, and if it hasn't lasted as advertised it should be replaced by said giant, wealthy corporation. You can dress this argument up as hard-working Titans of industry versus lazy and entitled consumers, but that's just ideology detached from the facts on the ground - the battery sounds like a dud.

    It's sweet of you to look out for Apple's interests though, since they are a small, at risk company with little profit to speak of ;-) (Side note - are you by chance from the USA or Alberta? No worries, just wondering.)

    At the end of the day though, I'm going to take your side in this argument because the thread starter has such an aesthetically unpleasing username.
  14. kage207 macrumors 6502a

    Jul 23, 2008
    Yes, I'm from USA. I do believe in capitalism as the best market out there. What do you think Steve Jobs was for? You need to work hard for the things you want. This might sound harsh and rude but it's the cold facts of life.

    In my case he needs to pay the price for a new battery because I get tired of people demanding. People demand luxury here in America and that's outright ridiculous. You need to work hard for it. Your argument is invalid that I'm 'protecting' Apple is simply not true.

    So let's break this down. Apple gives a one year limited warranty. They say the battery is covered for that year. That means if the battery loses more than 20% of it's original capacity they will replace it. So, it is 3 year later (almost 4) and a battery doesn't change at all over time? I think it does. It is a electrochemical reaction. You get AppleCare to protect your investment or in this case the OP wins because the battery replacement is cheaper than AppleCare.

    The OP said the battery has swollen in size. Well did you ask the OP if they properly took care of the battery? Did they cycle their battery properly? When not really using their laptop for long period of time did they store the battery properly at like Apple recommends?

    So, you can't prove the OP did this, nor can I prove that they did not. I'm not saying Apple needs protecting. I'm saying I don't like the entitled attitude the OP has taken saying that he needs help to be protected when there is no obligation to. The OP is asking the Apple managers to go out of their pocket to pay for the battery (it cuts into their bonuses).

    I'm not defending nor helping the OP get a free battery because I don't know if proper care was given. $129 is not bad at all for batteries. Other companies it is $150-$300.

    Given all this information it does not sound like a dud. It sounds like incomplete information given and whining that he shouldn't have to pay and seeking validation. I don't like people who feel entitled, nor give proper care to their electronics. If it were me, a poor college student, I'd gladly pay the $129 but I bought the AppleCare.

    AppleCare is only worth it for the Mac. iOS devices, not so much.
  15. DowdyFick macrumors regular

    Sep 3, 2013
    I don't believe you, please prove your claim :D.
  16. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    Its a three year old battery. The number of cycles is only of secondary relevance here. IMO, clearly not a warranty case. Sure, the battery seems to be below the expected average, but mileages vary.
  17. poopieboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Aug 22, 2009
    OK so if I replace the battery, is the $129 with Apple the way to go? Or do I have a significant (over $70) savings by buying the part online and installing it myself? I am planning on buying an original apple battery which looks like it goes for about $40 online.

    Also I should say that my main plans with this laptop are to replace the battery, sell it on craigslist, and buy a new retina display MBP. So.. since I don't want to invest too much cash into this thing, is going to the Apple store and dropping roughly $145 (after tax) on this battery truly my wisest option?
  18. poopieboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Aug 22, 2009
    Also, I don't really understand the perceived sense of entitlement that some of the people here are getting from me. I don't have any sense of entitlement to anything other than what has been communicated to me as the expected amount.. which was roughly 1,000 cycle counts. 403 is pretty far off, I don't think any of you can ignore that.

    Also, 3 years IS a long time - I agree! But if Apple thought that was a relevant indicator to battery life, don't you think they would have published that type of statistic, or a cycle count AND time duration statistic, rather than ONLY a cycle count statistic? Contrary to what some may think, I don't feel entitled to a new battery. I already got 400 cycles, a new one that gives me 1,000 cycles would put me at 1,400. I honestly don't deserve that. If I feel entitled to anything at all, its to an explanation for the huge 600 cycle count variance here, given that I used it lightly and never really took it out of the house.

    I hope that makes a little bit better sense.
  19. john123 macrumors 68020


    Jul 20, 2001
    This was all you had to say. Batteries don't just die with cycles. They die with age. You're not an outlier, although you are a bit unluckier than some.

    Probably not. You will never recover that investment. Does your computer work at all plugged in? Or for any period of time when on battery power? If so, you're better selling it and discounting the price just a bit.

    The answer, in a word, is physics and electrical engineering. That's just how batteries work. There's a wide range. The 1000 cycles number is an expected value. Think of things like a bell curve—there's an average and then there are values to the left and right of it.
  20. kage207 macrumors 6502a

    Jul 23, 2008
    Your sense of entitlement is coming on here and looking for validation that you should be able to get a brand new battery for nothing. That's my problem. Some may not, I do because I don't like the something for nothing mentality.

    EDIT: Yes, I know you asked saying yes or that you were wrong, for me you are looking for validation in terms of asking for a new battery. That annoys me but keep in mind, that's just me.

    Like other posters say, you just got the bad luck. Also, know that maybe you didn't workout your battery correctly which caused some areas to continue to try to increase its electron load causing the swelling. :/ Batteries do age with time just like everything else.
  21. JD92 macrumors 6502a


    Apr 14, 2005
    I think you're in the right in demanding a new battery. Sure, a three year old battery might go bad even if you've only done half the rated cycles and that might just be something you have to accept unless you get a friendly Genius - but that fact that the battery swelled up and physically moved your trackpad indicates a far more serious problem. That should never happen to a battery. Demand to see a manager and get it fixed.
  22. davidjearly macrumors 68020


    Sep 21, 2006
    Glasgow, Scotland
    If this were me, I would be pursuing a case against Apple using UK consumer law.

    Your battery didn't even last half the usage as advertised by the retailer. The technology of the battery is irrelevant - it's up to the manufacturer to decide whether to incorporate such unreliable, unpredictable components and this should not be passed onto the consumer.

    High value goods are expected to function for a reasonable amount of time. In Europe, this is up to 6 years after purchase. I'm not sure if there is equivalent regulations elsewhere.

    If the battery had even remotely approached the number of cycles advertised by the retailer, I'd say you would be being less reasonable.

    In any case, I think the comments regarding you having some sense of entitlement are way off the mark. If I bought a hard drive (another tech prone to failure), I would expect this to last for up to 5 years after purchase. If it didn't, I'd seek to claim against the retailer for repair/replacement. Batteries are no different.

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