Do i need 4 gb of ram? never heard anyone ask this

[Dreamail]

Not sure if this is still true for Leopard, but tests with earlier OSX versions have revealed that 4GB is a sweet spot.
Somehow memory paging seems to be build around a 4GB maximum, i.e. virtual memory paging becomes a lot more efficient in OSX from 4GB onwards.

Or in other words, certain OS actions become dramatically faster with 4GB as opposed to e.g. 2GB or 3GB of RAM.
Speed increases seen on desktop Macs were up to 50% for certain tasks (and with highly fragmented harddisks - where the paged virtual memory goes).

If that's really true, I'd definitely go for 4GB and nothing less.
Not because you need the 2 extra GB - but because you want the extra speed.

 

[RedTomato]

I don't know about the sweetspot, but my C2D MB feels 10x faster with 4GB.

It came with 1GB, and tbh felt like a bit of a dog compared with my old PB. Switching apps took up to 10 secs at times, which hit my workflow, and wasn;t what I expected from a *new* machine. With 4gb, app switching is instantaneous, and it feels like a whole new machine.

Performance under a heavy load, (which is quite rare with what I use) is probably the same or a bit faster, but the *feel* of my MB, my daily computing experience, is much much better, and that's what counts to me.

 

[Sogo]

I Think for what you do, 2GB is fine. But if you do have some extra cash, then by all means go out and upgrade to 4Gb. Its kinda like buying a large hard drive, you may not have need all 500Gb, buts it nice to know you have the space for all the things you want. Eventually you will fill it up and will need to buy a larger drive. In the end the 4Gb of ram can only help you, not hurt you.

I say stay with 2gb if what you do is tolerable with you.
Buy the extra ram if you have the money and want to upgrade.

 

[benlangdon]

I don't know about the sweetspot, but my C2D MB feels 10x faster with 4GB.

It came with 1GB, and tbh felt like a bit of a dog compared with my old PB. Switching apps took up to 10 secs at times, which hit my workflow, and wasn;t what I expected from a *new* machine. With 4gb, app switching is instantaneous, and it feels like a whole new machine.

Performance under a heavy load, (which is quite rare with what I use) is probably the same or a bit faster, but the *feel* of my MB, my daily computing experience, is much much better, and that's what counts to me.

well thats 1 to 4 gigs thats a big difference i am right now half my ram is used and i am doing almost nothing well/ mail / itunes / safari / candybar / playing with dockaliciouse / preview

 

[Dreamail]

well thats 1 to 4 gigs thats a big difference

RAM vs speed tests have shown that even a machine with 3.5GB RAM is remarkably slower than one with 4GB. And for a reason: it seems that with 3.5GB virtual memory still pages to the HD a lot, while the whole paging stops the moment the machine has 4GB. Suddenly OSX feels like all its virtual memory comes from a RAM disk rather than a harddisk.

 

[benlangdon]

RAM vs speed tests have shown that even a machine with 3.5GB RAM is remarkably slower than one with 4GB. And for a reason: it seems that with 3.5GB virtual memory still pages to the HD a lot, while the whole paging stops the moment the machine has 4GB. Suddenly OSX feels like all its virtual memory comes from a RAM disk rather than a harddisk.

well what if no page outs are being written?
i have none as we speak

 

[gauchogolfer]

well what if no page outs are being written?
i have none as we speak

If you have zero page outs then you're fine.

 

[Dreamail]

well what if no page outs are being written?
i have none as we speak

That's a good question.

Can RAM get as fragmented as harddisk space? And would it matter if memory is fragmented?
Some people hardly ever reboot their MacBooks, they merely set them to sleep. What if you keep going for weeks without a reboot? Will you still have few page outs at that point? Or will you have more due to fewer chunks of consecutive RAM?

I noticed that certain apps (iPhoto and Photoshop come to mind) tend to gobble up RAM - and return it quite fragmented. Would it make a difference in that case if you have 4+ GB of RAM?

 

[blackbelt]

is crucial a good/ safe way to go. The prices seem good, and i have read good things on these forums. Anyone have any other suggestion?

 

[rychencop]

is crucial a good/ safe way to go. The prices seem good, and i have read good things on these forums. Anyone have any other suggestion?

OWC

 

[heatmiser]

That's a good question.

Can RAM get as fragmented as harddisk space? And would it matter if memory is fragmented?
Some people hardly ever reboot their MacBooks, they merely set them to sleep. What if you keep going for weeks without a reboot? Will you still have few page outs at that point? Or will you have more due to fewer chunks of consecutive RAM?

The number keeps building. I ran my MB on 10.4.11 w/2gb for 45 days earlier this year, and the number just kept growing. I eventually rebooted when switching to Leopard.

 

[benlangdon]

If you have zero page outs then you're fine.

well now that i am home and have my 2nd screen i can get some stuff done.
its currently right now

vm 35.13 GB
in 382.82 MB
out 332.00KB
swap used 14.72 MB



i have barely cracked any work
a lot still to go

you think i should get 4 gigs now?

 

[woodekm]

A Windows friend of mine Shizit his pants when he saw the co$t of Mac ram.

He says that 2.0g was the sweet spot for his XP gaming computer (mostly battlefield 2), and his ram is easily twice the cost of Macs - maybe more. Also he says he cant run more than 2.3g (try splitting that) so I guess anything more is mute for the PC guys.

Just what he told me. I couldn't tell ya' to verify.

With that said, get the additional ram and at least appreciate the cost. It wont go to waste especially if the cost ever goes up.

 

[benlangdon]

so do you guys think i should get 4 gigs

i mean 332 ÷ 382 = 86%

it was hanging a little, i was mostly doing internet stuff though
all i had open was
candybar
activity monitor
mail
itunes
and safari of course.
i should have checked how much safari was taking
i was moving and doing stuff with photos

 

[wk127001]

Can RAM get as fragmented as harddisk space? And would it matter if memory is fragmented?

RAM is actually very fragmented, but from a process' point of view it appears as a linear address space. This is because of virtual memory. If you have no idea what I'm talking about don't worry about it, your system will never take a performance hit from fragmentation in RAM.

 

[n8c]

watch your units!

well now that i am home and have my 2nd screen i can get some stuff done.
its currently right now

vm 35.13 GB
in 382.82 MB
out 332.00KB
swap used 14.72 MB



i have barely cracked any work
a lot still to go

you think i should get 4 gigs now?

benlangdon, if your units are correct, then your 86% calculation is off by quite a bit:

332KB = 0.332MB
0.332MB / 382.82MB = 0.087%

Sounds like you're fine.

 

[thebeephaha]

I always like to put it this way, do YOU think you need 4GB of RAM?

Its purely a matter of need, or want. If you don't feel any reason to upgrade then you are likely fine with what you have.

 

[mankar4]

I found that every activity I do (even internet browsing) sped up noticeably when I upgraded to 4gb.

Today I went to Fry's and saw 4gb on sale for 39.99. It's definitely worth 40 bucks.

 

[eXan]

nice to know. 800 would be nice for the mbp though

so...
buy soon

o ya side note. 1 more post to have 500

800 MHz memory will work at 667 MHz in your MBP, if it will at all.

BTW, you'll be fine with 2 GB. I've just recently upgraded from 1 GB to 2 in my MacBook and barely noticed the difference (usually I have Safari, Mail, Adium, a couple of dictionaries, Word 2008, Pages, iGetter, iTunes open at the same time)

But if you run Windows in Parallels or Fusion, you may benefit from 4 GB.

 

[eXan]

well now that i am home and have my 2nd screen i can get some stuff done.
its currently right now

vm 35.13 GB
in 382.82 MB
out 332.00KB
swap used 14.72 MB



i have barely cracked any work
a lot still to go

you think i should get 4 gigs now?

When your Pagei-in/out ratio becomes like 2:1, then you should start worrying. And not like Page-ins: 40 MB/ Page outs - 20 MB. I'm talking about Page-ins 800 MB/ Page-outs 400+ MB, with Swap Used number over like 400 MB.

 

[brop52]

I bought and installed mine "now" just in case I need it later. Better to have than not.

Got 2 x 2g at the egg = $90 w/ a $15 rebate ($75 tot) for Mushkin ram. Couldnt pass it up. Do I need it now? Prol not. Will I? Never know. I can always pull out the 4g's and replace the original 2 x 1g if I intend to sell, and use the 4 in my new machine (assuming things don't change).

I bought the same RAM, however it became $2 cheaper the morning after I bought it.

By the way, if you do a lot of progressive download videos in F4M and Quicktime you are going to run into RAM issues. I stream (well technically download) my video lectures and watch them on my iMac. Lets just say you can open a lot more lectures at a time with 4 GB over 2 GB. I was having a lot of page outs.

 

[Eidorian]

US$80 to never ask why I need 4 GB of RAM again.

 

[benlangdon]

benlangdon, if your units are correct, then your 86% calculation is off by quite a bit:

332KB = 0.332MB
0.332MB / 382.82MB = 0.087%

Sounds like you're fine.

it crossed my mind when i was writing down but i forgot.
wow, so i would have to be doing a lot

nice well i think this thread is done

 

[e12a]

due to the low cost of RAM its a good upgrade for SR and beyond Macbook Pros. Get it while DDR2 is still cheap (DDR3 is coming). Just ordered G.Skill from newegg.

i do use VMware a lot so this will be useful in dedicating more ram to the virtual machine.

 

[PhaserFuzz]

Just get it. You can buy it for around $80 from newegg.