Do I need a new receiver (if I buy a 4k tv)

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by eclipse01, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. eclipse01 macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #1
    Hello,

    I have an Onkyo 606 receiver, works great! It of course does not do 4K or 3D within the HDMI's.

    My question is, I currently use it as an HDMI switchbox for all my devices, is there anyway I can use my new 4K TV as a HDMI swichbox and just use the receiver for its sound capabilities from here on out?

    Or do I need to upgrade my receiver?
     
  2. Rigby macrumors 601

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    San Jose, CA
    #2
    Probably. In theory you could use HDMI ARC (audio return channel from the TV to the AVR), but I think the Onkyo 606 is probably too old for that (but you can check if the HDMI output says "ARC"). If the TV has an optical S/PDIF audio output, you can use that to loop the audio back to the AVR. However, you may lose audio quality since S/PDIF doesn't support newer multi-channel formats like DD+, DTS-HD and TrueHD; many TVs even downgrade the audio to stereo on the optical out.
     
  3. veeco3110 macrumors 6502

    veeco3110

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    #3
    That's how I have mine set up. I have a Sony 55 inch 4K tv, denon receiver, and definitive technology speakers. My receiver supports 4K and everything else. But I have everything running via hdmi to my tv. I'm using the receiver for audio only. You just need to make sure you switch the audio input on your tv for it.
     
  4. bluespark macrumors 65816

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    New York
    #4
    Exactly, and this is a very common setup. Use HDMI to connect video from source devices to the TV. Use the devices' audio out to connect audio to the receiver. Do whatever is needed with universal remote, etc., to match the appropriate inputs and you'll be good to go.
     
  5. CaTOAGU macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Audio ARC will only support upto 5.1 channels in Dolby Digital and won't support multi-channel PCM as far as I know. It also varies by TV so make sure you check before committing to that route.

    If you're not planning on using the 4K resolution yet, as material is still limited, or some of your sources (say Apple TV) won't output 4K, running everything through your existing receiver will still work. It will send either a 1080P (or lower as require) signal to the TV, the TV would then upscale the image to it's 4K native resolution.
     
  6. mattopotamus macrumors G4

    mattopotamus

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    #6
    If you want the receiver to be the hub, you would need a new one that supports HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 if you plan on watching 4K content. If you want to keep the receiver you could use ARC or the optical audio and make the TV the HUB.

    As CaTOAGU pointed out, you would only get 5.1 DD with the methods I mentioned above. If you truly want the best setup it would be getting a new receiver with the 4K specs and keeping the receiver as the hub. Then would be able to support all of the audio formats.
     
  7. eclipse01 thread starter macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #7
    Thanks for the replies,

    I am trying to understand this, so with Arc, I can only do 5.1 (not 7.1) but it will do HD audio? Also my receiver has to support it?
     
  8. CaTOAGU macrumors 6502

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    #8
    If by HD audio you mean Dolby true hd or dts master audio then no it won't. It will only go up to 5.1 channels of Dolby digital afaik.
     
  9. Cnasty macrumors 68020

    Cnasty

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    #9
    I currently am using a HDMI switcher that supports 4K but I am in the market for a receiver to handle all of this versus the switcher. Only thing is I have a sound bar in this set up and not speakers so no need for the receiver just yet even though the quality of the receiver far outweighs the switcher is my understanding.
     
  10. eclipse01 thread starter macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #10
    guess I will be needing a new receiver then. such a shame...
     
  11. mattopotamus, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015

    mattopotamus macrumors G4

    mattopotamus

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    #11
    This. If by HD audio you mean actual music the answer is no as well. ARC at best and do 5.1 DD. Anything else would be "down" converted to 5.1 DD (Dolby True HD and DTS). It is the same thing as using optical. The only reason to really use ARC over optical is if you use HDMI-CEC, otherwise they are the same.

    The best solution to get the most of of your system is a new receiver and use your current speakers. Personally, I just use ARC since I use HDMI-CEC and it works for me..5.1 is all I need :)
    I have a vizio 5.1 soundbar with satellite speakers.
     
  12. eclipse01 thread starter macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #12
    Thanks everyone,

    one more question, what is the purpose of receivers only having 4k pass through ONLY vs 4k up convert and Pass though. I have seen a few confusing answers elsewhere on the net. Hoping someone can break it down a bit easier for me.
     
  13. CaTOAGU macrumors 6502

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    #13
    A 4K tv has a native resolution of 3840 x 2160 pixels, all images on the TV are displayed at this resolution. If the tv is fed a signal that is less than that, say 1080P, it will upscale (up convert) it to its native resolution.

    A receiver with 4K pass through, will send a 4K signal from a 4K source unaltered to the tv. One that can up convert can take a lower resolution signal and convert it to 4K. Unless you're paying serious money, it's unlikely to make any difference where the upscaling (up conversion is done). But any image displayed on a 4K tv will be at 3840 x 2160 pixels regardless.
     
  14. whodatrr macrumors 6502a

    whodatrr

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    #14
    Just a thought...

    You may want to consider separating amplification from the bells and whistles? While separate pre-amps are usually more expensive, some receivers will have pre-outs, allowing you to feed the signal to an amp. The dedicated amps have better sound than recovers anyhow. Doing this, you can focus on the low-powered receiver that has all the bells and whistles, but is at a lower price than its more powerful siblings. And you can still use a powerful amp that will kick any recovers' butt. Next time a new technology comes out (5k, a million channels, HDMI 99, etc), you can still use your amp.

    I get amps at Emotiva, but there are lots of good sources.
     
  15. eclipse01 thread starter macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #15
    I really don't want all the bells and whistles, I just want to have HD audio and display 4K, I really didn't care how I did it (was hoping I could do it with my TV and hub that comes with it) but that seems to not be an option, so now i'm looking at replacing my 6 year old receiver so I can get best of both worlds however, I really don't want to spend more then $350-400 for a receiver. So I am seeing if I really need 4k up convert vs just a receiver that does both upconvert & pass through.
     
  16. thisismyusername macrumors member

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    Nov 1, 2015
    #16
    You don't. Your TV will upconvert if necessary. Besides, at your price range, I doubt you'll find a receiver that does HDMI-to-HDMI up conversion to 4K and if you do, I doubt it will be any better than what your TV can do.
     
  17. eclipse01 thread starter macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #17
    cool,

    thanks i'm assuming the TV will do just fine (Samsung JS9000-this I am not "skimping" on)
     
  18. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    Jun 2, 2010
    #18
    Now may not be the best time to buy a new receiver. There are only a handful of receivers that support HDMI 2 and HDCP 2.2 you can expect to see more next year.
     
  19. thisismyusername macrumors member

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    Nov 1, 2015
    #19
    That might have been the case last year but not anymore. HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are widely supported in the 2015 model 4K receivers.
     
  20. eclipse01 thread starter macrumors 68020

    eclipse01

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    #20
    Yeah, I was looking at the Denon AVR-S710W (which was $350 a few days ago, not so much anymore)

     
  21. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    Jun 2, 2010
    #21
    Many companies have announced products that are not yet shipping. I know Denon and Pioneer have product shipping but there are three manufacturers that I am considering who have all announced product and none of them are available for purchase.
     
  22. thisismyusername macrumors member

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    Nov 1, 2015
    #22
    I still stand by my comment. I was shopping for a 4K capable receiver last month (I went with an Onkyo TX-NR646) and had no trouble finding ones that support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. In fact, I don't recall seeing a 2015 model that didn't support those 2 things.
     
  23. mattopotamus macrumors G4

    mattopotamus

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    Jun 12, 2012
    #23
    Agreed. Most have 2.0 and 2.2. In fact, I would say it would be difficult to get a new one without those specs
     

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