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ogs

macrumors member
Original poster
Jan 26, 2012
63
0
So, i just installed lion onto my crucial m4, and set the mac pro up so that it boots from that drive. just wondering.. do i need that trim stuff?
 

Xian Zhu Xuande

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2008
899
79
Some SSD drives need it less than others, but technically all should benefit from it. The Crucial M4, for example, basically needs it. On the other hand, OWC says you shouldn't enable it for their SSDs due to it not being necessary (they don't give a good argument for that statement) but many people who have enabled it for the OWC SSDs have encountered various problems.

Technically speaking, TRIM is a very good feature for SSDs to enjoy. It is never left out from the Apple-provided SSDs (as far as I am aware).
 
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GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
4
Here
I've had a pair of OCZ SSD's for about the same amount of time. The one in my wife's computer has trim enabled mine does not. I don't user her computer much but I haven't noticed a difference between the two.
 
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theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
7,434
1,814
Poole, England
I've had a pair of OCZ SSD's for about the same amount of time. The one in my wife's computer has trim enabled mine does not. I don't user her computer much but I haven't noticed a difference between the two.

You would only really notice it if you fill up your SSD on a regular basis.
 
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Xian Zhu Xuande

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2008
899
79
You would only really notice it if you fill up your SSD on a regular basis.
That is not necessarily true. While I won't speak specifically to the OWC SSDs (though they have no technical attribute I am aware of which would explain a complete exemption from using TRIM), the value of TRIM can come to light over time due to frequent deletion without necessarily filling the hard drive.

Though it should be stated that it is not necessarily a life or death matter for a SSD. Some SSDs can perform perfectly well for a reasonable lifetime, without TRIM, under a range of use patterns.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/inside-the-ssd-revolution-how-solid-state-disks-really-work/
 
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haravikk

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2005
1,494
21
I think it's really something you just need to try; I enabled for an OCZ Vertex 2 120gb drive and personally I found it worse with TRIM enabled, in particular I found that Safari stuttered a lot until I turned TRIM back off.

I never did figure out why it did it though, as it never did make any sense, but the change to TRIM was definitely the cause in my case, so keep an eye out for any performance oddities and make up your own mind, would be my advice :)


Also, I'm not sure if SSD's with garbage collection need TRIM enabled? It shouldn't have any real effect, though since the controller can just ignore TRIM requests if it has some other mechanism enabled.
 
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Xian Zhu Xuande

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2008
899
79
Also, I'm not sure if SSD's with garbage collection need TRIM enabled? It shouldn't have any real effect, though since the controller can just ignore TRIM requests if it has some other mechanism enabled.
TRIM enables the garbage collection process to remove data from deleted files, reducing the amount of read/write operations involved in freeing up pages. So TRIM makes garbage collection more efficient and reduces the strain it places on the SSD in the long run. (This is an oversimplification, and there are other factors to consider between controllers, but hopefully it makes sense).

And yeah, many people have had problems with TRIM enabled on OWC SSDs. This doesn't mean those drives wouldn't have benefited from TRIM, however, and by design it should be less important on those drives than, say, on the Crucial M4. But a cynical person could observe less than sincere reasons why OWC might be inclined to say it is completely unnecessary.
 
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wonderspark

macrumors 68040
Feb 4, 2010
3,048
101
Oregon
I've had my Crucial M4 boot drive going now for six months or so without trim, and it still gets the same speeds during tests as before I cloned my OS on it. I only use 98GB out of the 256GB available, and frequently drag large files on the desktop before relocating them to other drives, but other than that I never "fill it up" or anything.

That said, I haven't had any issues, either. Apps boot quick, nothing hangs or gets glitchy... nothing. (Knock on wood, right?) If something were to start screwing up on my M4, I'd try it then. Until then, I subscribe to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
 
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ogs

macrumors member
Original poster
Jan 26, 2012
63
0
I've had my Crucial M4 boot drive going now for six months or so without trim, and it still gets the same speeds during tests as before I cloned my OS on it. I only use 98GB out of the 256GB available, and frequently drag large files on the desktop before relocating them to other drives, but other than that I never "fill it up" or anything.

That said, I haven't had any issues, either. Apps boot quick, nothing hangs or gets glitchy... nothing. (Knock on wood, right?) If something were to start screwing up on my M4, I'd try it then. Until then, I subscribe to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

i would agree if it ain't broke don't fix it.

how do i check the speed of the drive?
 
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derbothaus

macrumors 601
Jul 17, 2010
4,092
30
I use AJA System Test. But it does not work in Lion thanks to Apple's new filesystem issues. You can partition and run the test on that blank partition though.
 
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kirkbross

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2007
665
21
Los Angeles
I clean-installed Lion on an Vertex 3... is TRIM automatically enabled in Lion or do I need to manually enable it?
 
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Xian Zhu Xuande

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2008
899
79
I clean-installed Lion on an Vertex 3... is TRIM automatically enabled in Lion or do I need to manually enable it?
TRIM is only auto-enabled on Apple-provided SSDs. You basically have to use a hack to enable it on third-party SSDs.
 
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GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
4
Here
Thats why I got a drive that has the sandforce chipset in it. Fixes that problem.

So the question was do you need trim?

Not does the sandforce controller that comes in most SSD's better than all the rest....

By the way just about every modern SSD has garbage collection, and sandforce based SSD's don't play all that well with Mac's. To update the firmware on OCZ, OWC and most other SF based drives require a linux distro and patience. Crucial has Mac Firmware updates..
 
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TheGdog

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2010
316
50
North Carolina, USA
So the question was do you need trim?

Not does the sandforce controller that comes in most SSD's better than all the rest....

By the way just about every modern SSD has garbage collection, and sandforce based SSD's don't play all that well with Mac's. To update the firmware on OCZ, OWC and most other SF based drives require a linux distro and patience. Crucial has Mac Firmware updates..

OWC has mac firmware updates. When I did the research to buy my SSD I read several places that the OWC with sand force was the way to go on a mac.

TRIM enables the garbage collection process to remove data from deleted files, reducing the amount of read/write operations involved in freeing up pages. So TRIM makes garbage collection more efficient and reduces the strain it places on the SSD in the long run. (This is an oversimplification, and there are other factors to consider between controllers, but hopefully it makes sense).

Here is a question. What would be the effect of secure emptying trash? Doesn't that write 0s over the deleted files?
 
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Apple Corps

macrumors 68030
Apr 26, 2003
2,575
542
California
Not sure what research you did - but based on my experience the OWC ssd with Sandforce does NOT play well with the Mac Pro.

It is a poor choice.
 
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GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
4
Here
OWC has mac firmware updates. When I did the research to buy my SSD I read several places that the OWC with sand force was the way to go on a mac.



Here is a question. What would be the effect of secure emptying trash? Doesn't that write 0s over the deleted files?

They involve booting into Linux with a live CD. What they've done is package the solution that has always been out there.
 
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thatoneguy82

macrumors 68000
Jul 23, 2008
1,895
2
Beach Cities, CA
I didn't know about TRIM until a few days ago and I really don't know much about it. All I know is that it is good to have. I have a mid-2010 MBP with a crucial m4. It constantly would act up and report wrong freespace after I delete big files or a lot of files. To reclaim the space, I would need to go into recovery and repair it. I figured TRIM would be good and may save me from this, since it will just be writing over the same area. But, who knows. Enabling it was simple, it took <2 mins. I downloaded TrimEnabler, switched it on, restarted. Done. System Info now says TRIM is enabled.
 
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Demigod Mac

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
799
246
SSDs with a Sandforce Controller (OCZ, OWC, Corsair) don't need TRIM because they do the garbage collection themselves.

Others, you'll want to enable it.
 
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