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do people actually like the new OS X desktop?

I like the dock. It sits on the right side of my screen. I have reduced it's size to abouth twice the size needed for legibilty, and I turned off bouncing icons. It is not intrusive at all. It is there when I need it and just sits out of the way otherwise (though I hate hiding it).
 
just because it's new...doesn't mean it's better...and also...just because apple says "think differenet" doesn't mean it's "progressive"...

i just create alisas for my apps...put them into folders in the apple menu...i never have to search for app's through folders and such...

somebody should write an add-on that would have the "dock" function more like the control panel in OS 9 (and older)...one that would only appear when hovered over...or something like that...and it could look a billion times more progressive...i'm a heavy user so i don't even care about icons anymore...give me some nice text links or something...tons of info in a small space...like on some of the truly progressive websites out there (www.praystation.com)...

there is alot of crappy flash work out there...but there is also alot of truly innovative work going on...it would be neat to see apple go in that direction rather than trying to follow (yep, i'm saying that) the directions made by microsoft...

maybe i could make my own desktop dock (ugly name innovated by ibm years ago with their laptops?) using flash or director...

ok...i'm sure i'll get slammed for that...but i don't care...it's constructive criticism...

i still wouldn't think of buying a pc...unless is had an apple OS on it...

ciao...jv
 
jvaska: i think you hit the nail on the head. its easy to get carried away and make things unusable. i do this ALL THE TIME on my website. apple usually makes things beautiful and useful this is why se love them. they have a great way of getting rid of the dead wood. This has not happened to the dock.

those we like the dock seem to be pushing the dock to its limits and even editing the dock. we should not have to make elaborate hacks to our system just to make it usable.

the dock has flaws but we are not saying it should be thrown out. we simply feel aplpe should address the issues people have brought up since day one.

Gloria: point taken, but we arent fearing change. most of us do not want to go back to os9 with application switchers and apple menus (yes we still have these but they are quite different in osx). in fact i think most people complaining about the dock feel it hasnt gone far enough. yes change is often good. new innovations are often great. but the dock needs some polishing in order to make it great. i think one of the reasons so many of us complain is that we see such great potencial in the dock (much like the rest of osx) but feel that is currently unrealized and since apple has ignored us for years regarding our requests we fear that the dock's full potencial may never be realized.
 
yeah...ambitious...i agree...i should say i do see tons of potential in this thing since i didn't point that out i think...

this may sound totally dorky...but i'm getting into the idea of voice commands...like saying "photoshop" and it launches...or saying "print" and it would print from whichever app you are in...or saying "docs" and it would open a folder (or something) of the most recent files you've worked on...

a buddy of mine actually does 3D mechanical engineering drawings like this...it's totally amazing...and it really does save him tons of time...

but i'm just thinking more of the basic stuff...i don't think it's feasible to work in freehand or quark using voice commands...

i don't use my desktop for anything actually...it's quite blank really...it's funny that we attempt to reach this virtual-type world and we call the screen a desktop (who came up with this term?)...

maybe eyeball commands for those...hmmm...

ok...i do work sometimes...hahaha...now is a good time to please some clients so i can put some more cash away for next years G5 OS X monster machine...
 
No Dock in OS 9, but then I used DragThing. If you hate the wibbly movement of the Dock so much, there's an OS X version of that app, too.
 
where did those terms come from

"desktop" and "dock" are Apple inventions
the laptop conection you are thinking comes from the Duo notebooks.
Sounds like you are new around Macs, thats okay.
We have had voice control for years, originally in the 660 and 840AVs of about 1993!

I don't feel like I am missing anything with the dock, it works fine for me, sounds like some people just cant get away from that Apple menu and App menu, it is all in the dock. What am I missing?

I think you are talking about the Control Strip and Control Strip modules, originally a shareware utility then implemented by apple. Very ugly really, never liked it. Annoying.
It would be nice if you could get your terms correct so the rest of us dont have to guess what you are talking about.
 
voice recognition

Originally posted by jvaska
this may sound totally dorky...but i'm getting into the idea of voice commands...like saying "photoshop" and it launches...or saying "print" and it would print from whichever app you are in...or saying "docs" and it would open a folder (or something) of the most recent files you've worked on...

a buddy of mine actually does 3D mechanical engineering drawings like this...it's totally amazing...and it really does save him tons of time...

but i'm just thinking more of the basic stuff...i don't think it's feasible to work in freehand or quark using voice commands...
Click to expand...

Voice recognition is cool and as kansaigaijin pointed out, it's been around for a long time on the Mac. For the past few years I've played with it now and again. I even sent in a voice sample to Apple to help them improve its capabilities. In OS 9 and previous, speech recognition was an Extra feature on the OS that you had to load and configure separate from you OS installation. In OS X it's automatically loaded. In fact, doesn't the Mac start with Speech Recognition turned on when you first start the OS?

It's fun to play around with, especially if you are into writing Applescripts. I had several "conversational" commands that I wrote at one point that included random responses. I believe you can write voice commands for any Applescript compatible application.

You can also spend some extra cash and use iListen or ListenDo! or IBM's Viavoice, but I'm not ready for that much speech recognition... :)
 
I really like OS X and use it 99% of the time on my TiBook. While I agree that it still could use some refinement/tweaks, it is still an excellent system. I also think that you need to use it more then just a few times, or a few hours before forming an opinion about it. It does take a little getting used to, depending on how fast you can adapt. I found that the stability of the OS is higher then anything else I have ever used. This includes every Mac OS from 1988 to today, as well as windowz from 95 *gag* to 98 *ick* all the way up to 2000 *still an ick but not so much* (at least it doesn't crash.... as much as the other windowz).

I don't remember ever having OS X crash on me. I have had only ONE panic and that was when I was doing my RAM upgrade. For some reason the rev a TiBook doesn't like the PC133 memory in the lower slot, but it works fine in the upper... go figure. Otherwise OS X is the rock to beat the hell out of window$.
 
nope

nope...not new to mac...sure my terms might be mixed up...you obviously figured out what i meant...it's not stuff i sit around an talk about often...but this dock thing got me going...sorry for your confusion...

i don't tend to play around with all the gadgets much...it's cool about the voice stuff...when i have more extra time i'll definitely look into that...

if you're annoyed...well...you own that...not me...it's your problem...which is no concern of mine...

the "dock" is an interesting concept...i can see it evolving into something really quite nice...jv
 
k, you should read more closely...

haha...and i'll work on the terms...but i'm in speculation mode...asking questions is the path to innovation in my book...

of course...across lake washington...30 minutes from seattle in a place called redmond...m$ doesn't seem to understand that...

i heard something new and horrible today about m$...i'll bring it up a later time maybe...
 
As far as the Dock, I don't get the objections. The dock has fit into my workflow very well. You can hide it and have it only appear when you hover over it. I don't keep drives on my desktop. I keep my HD and my home directory on the dock, so I can get the same sorts of popup menus I got off the Apple menu in OS 9. I dunno, it just works very well for me. Admittedly I don't like the "jumping" notifications, but you can hack that out.

With voice recognition, I've really kind of just discovered the combination of speech recognition and AppleScript, and I'm having TONS of fun. I'm having little conversations with my machine. e.g.:

Tetsuo: You have a new message from Bob Smith. What would you like me to do with it?
Me: What's the subject?
T: The subject is, "Do you have naked pictures of your wife?"
Me: That's spam.
T: Okay, I'll mark it as junk and store it for later action.

Now if I could only get it to intelligently find the open relays in the headers and send off messages to postmaster@wherever, my life would be great. :)

Overall it's amusing, but of course you still can't talk to your computer at work without sounding like an idiot.
 
talk like a dork

Gelfin you saved the thread, and made me laugh
thanks
KG
it is nice to read something from somebody who has something to say,
have a nice weekend

oh what about all those call center people, talking to the ether?
 
features

I think we can all agree on a few things:

1. Mac OS X is amazing, is the future, and shows enormous potencial

2. the dock is great, much better than the apple menu of classic, and again shows enormous potencial

3. Mac OS X as it is now is very usable

What i think some of you are missing about those of us who are complaining is that although we are happy with osx, use it, understand it, we simply feel that much of its potencial is unrealized and we fear apple is not addressing this.

there have been complaints about the dock and great suggestions for improvements since day one. ive only been with osx since DP4 but i remember hearing friends comment on dock flaws before version 4.

apple has ignored us.

its great that apple has given us springloaded folders in 10.2, but its not enough. i like windowshade, feel it mighht be time to let it go, but it needs to be replaced. the minimizing to the dock is a new feature not a replacement.

ive come to love the tabbed browsing in mozilla and would love to see tabbed file browsing in osx. this could perhaps bring back some of teh functionality lost but the loss of tabbed windows in 9. instead of tabs at the bottom that popup we could have a window ith tabs along the top, and could move between them as in mozilla.

some suggestions by other for windows and documents in the doc to identify themselves visually as belonging to a certain application is nothing short of brilliant. apple needs to use these ideas.

most dock icons are impetant. they are no different from their os9 counterparts. what do i mean? they dont provide visual ques. for a brilliant dock icon take a look at Adium. even if you dont use aol instant messenging try it out just to see what adam has done with his icon. its pretty neat stuff. lets see the same innovation with documents and windows. some things programmers can do other things apple needs to provide us with the tools and give us a good push in the right direction but providing example.

i spend a lot of time copying large files from drive to drive. i think some of you who handle large files can appreciate osx's multitasking. in os9 we had to sit for 10 minutes to an hour waiting until our compuyter became responsive again. now we can do other things. but this comes at a cost. if i have windows open doing other things i never know when the finder has finshed its task. the finder icon needs to provide the same sort of notifications as the mail icon and adium icon.

i would love the option to have removable media appear in my dock much the same way launched applications appear. if i have windows open insert a cd, i dont want to minimize or move my windows to see the cd on the desktop. a single click to the dock would be great. instead of moving windows or diving into the computer.

options for arranging applications, drives, folders, windows, and documents in the dock as i want them would be a nice luxury.

i like having the dock open all the time (hiding is annoying) but in a few very select apps like photoshop i need that dock out of my way. a preference to choose applications that hide the dock would be great.

those of us who complain arent saying we hate osx. we arent saying we want to bring back os9 or features there-in. in fact i think the complainers are the true mac osx fans. we see osx and love it, we work with it, see its potencial, and ask apple for more osx not less.

i simply want apple to make osx what it promises to be. we want to see osx's potencial realized. an sooner rather than later. we have the ideas now, no need to wait to implement them. and if apple is too busy then why havent third parties taken up the slack. if we find your hackie useful we will pay for it. if apple likes it they will buy it. i really wish i knew how to program, but alas im a molecular biologist not a software designer. but as long as im pulling all nighters at work getting things done that need to be done, apple should be doing the same for me.

so those of you who are content where with osx as is, please dont deride those of us who ask for more. we are simply thinking different.
 
Nice to see you back Lemon!

I was hoping the battle yesterday wouldn't cause a haiatus.

So the consensus seems to be:

Better organization by App (windows minimize next to their App, divided dock "sections" by App).

Drive Icons in Dock.

File-tree reflective dock grouping. Drive icon on left of group, Apps from that volume to it's right, folders from that volume to their right. Sub groupings by App for minimized windows as above.

A "dormant" mode like the old control strip had. Say you click on the "finder" icon to toggle it.

Anything else? If this is what you want I'll take it to the employee I know as above. She'll get it to the right people and we may see it in 10.2.
 
Mischief: hmmm let me look here, i forget what i write sometimes. Just reading over the two threads now. Seems you asked for a concise list a couple times so ill see what i can do. your ideas below are interesting but not exacly what i was thinking. let me itemize the points i find most interesting, my ideas and others:

1. windows should not open behind the dock.

2. organization in dock in which apps, docs, windows, folders, and drives are kept separate and the user can choose the order in which these are arranged.

3. preference panel in which one can specify applications that auto hide the dock

4. control strip/purple button type function for dock where one can click to retract dock

5. (this one from mrtrumbe) windows and documents in the doc should have some sort of stamp indicating the application they are operating in. (mouse over only gives name not application). i think this could function in a way similiar to mail.app and adium's notifications.

6. finder (mac smiley) dock icon should provide notification of finder tasks such as copying files etc. notification should be along same model as item 5.

7. apple should encourage software developers to create dynamic icons that provide vital information visually, much like the notifications of mail.app and adium. behaivior such as bouncing can annoy some users so visual cues are better. Visual cues like those provided by adium should be encouraged. adium is the perfect model of how all dock icons (apps, windows, finder icon) should behaive.

8. two types of folder dock icons. one that opens the folder's window and one that provides a contextual window, thus eliminating control clicking or click and wait in the dock. the dock should be all single clicks for simplicity. this could be executed by a control click and then selecting a folder behavior (window, or contexual) from the contexual menu list maybe.

9. a replacement for windowshade function. minimizing is a good tool but it is something different entirely than windowshade. either windowshade function directly or something new that gets a window out of the way but keeps it on the desktop.

10. tabbed window browsing ala mozilla and adium. mimicing apple's website. this is a great way to have the function of multiple windows and the simplicity of a single window. this could be seen also as an evolution of the tabbed windows in os9.

11. all icons on the dock should have the option of being removed, including the finder icon... its just staring at me, smiling and mocking me! i am here forever, you cant move me!!! it seems to say in its ghastly stare.

12. windows should remember their file size, and icon arrangement even after a restart.

13. all windows should by default be set to global (this is what global means). one can then change all of one's windows by adjusting the global options. if one wants things different in a particular window then one uses the "this window only" option. third parties should provide power users with the option for multiple "global" settings, ie multiple sets of default window states. i would love to have one for my classic drive and one for my x drive.

14. the green button should function properly even if i have snap to grid or keep arranged by checked. is it so much to ask that the green button work properly?

15. springloaded folders (i know 10.2 should have it but lets pretend we havent peeked).

16. the ticks in the icon resizing preferences in the finder and in the dock should have a tick and list the corresponding pixels.

17. a contextual menu option for icons to choose that icon's specific size independant of other icons' sizes.

18. classic windows should be just as aware of the dock and menubar as aqua windows.

19. an option for a visual cue of the classic state and an easy way to start it up or shut it down. if not in the dock then in the menubar like the battery, monitor, sound,and ppoe status icons. its annoying having to be always opening preferences to see if os9 is running and to shut it down if it is.

20. option to remove recent items from apple menu.

21. alias's placed in the dock should not display an alias arrow while in the dock. dock icons should be considered a whole separte entity, you have window icons and dynamic dock icons, so dropping a alias in the dock should display its dynamic icon not its window icon with the alias arrow.

22. windows with a large number of files/apps should open in a reasonable amount of time. another of my big reasons for starting up in classic, sometime i need to open folders with large numbers.

23. scrolling in windows needs to be accelerated (perhaps using some sort fo caching)

and then ram thing, i really have no idea what is happening with that. osx just seems to start off using about 118mbs and seems to skyrocket the longer it runs. if i launch an app it take 80mbs more ram but when i quit that app later i only free up 20mb. whats going on with that?right now im using 303mb of ram. im running the finder, adium, and mozilla. when i restart launch adium and mozilla i only use 200mb. but because i have been running for awhile and have launched and quite lots of apps ive lost 100mbs.
 
well there is my list of 23 magical improvements i would like to see in osx. as you can see im not asking for os9 functions. mostly i am asking for an extension of osx functions and a few bug fixes. the window resizing bug and windows not remembering how they should appear bug really really bother me. this is the only thing that makes me feel uncomfortable in osx... ok maybe thats an overstatement, there are a few other lil things. with all these little updates from apple every month that have bug fixes im surprised a bug as big as the window problems hasnt been addressed. improper window function is what one expects from early betas not a finished product that has already had one major upgrade (10->10.1).

im just a little insulted by those of you who keep saying that those of us who have complaints are asking for os9 features or that we havent learned to use osx yet. this is patronizing and clearly shows you havent listedn to our complaints. i think those with complaints are probably the ones who know osx the best and therefore have experienced problems and been able to see how improvements might take shape.

if you are so unimaginitive that you just take whatever some corporation gives you and smile numbly and say "thank you this is all i need" then i would say that you are the ones who might want to explore osx some more and learn how to use it. i think bugs and areas for improvements will jump out at you as well, and then maybe we can all share these ideas and submit them to apple.

sorry if i sound insulting myself, i certainly dont intend to, im just trying to illustrate that we should ask for more from any company even our "beloved" apple. i know some of you have said "im happy" and asked politely what the unhappy users want. this is constructive and open minded and i appreciate the thoughtful consideration.

now come on, most of you have agreed osx has potencial lets root out some more bug fixes and ideas for new features that will help realize that potencial. lets work together on this. nothing special about me, so if i can come up with twenty something ideas we should have a few hundred ideas with all the people here. join in the chant! (if you get that reference youve already impressed me)
 
Re: do people actually like the new OS X desktop?

Originally posted by jvaska


but...you tell me...do you like that taskbar thing?

it seems completely PC to me...seriously...and i can't stand pc's.

jv
Click to expand...

pc's cant stand you :rolleyes:
 
my 2 cents

1- dock is ugly and in the way
2- auto-hide is not 'fast' enough, and I feel a little bit of frustration each time I go to it
3-dock is useful, especially for 'controlling' apps without launching/switching to them
4- icons are obfuscatory, original mac used menus for things, which is better
5-why not keep in aliases in Apple Menu, and an alias of the Apple menu itself, for shortcuts to things?
6- why not make the dock itself a menu, meaning that it drops down like a menu when the Apple menu is clicked?
7- some of you use the dock on the right... how? What about scroll bars/resizing...?

also:

1- the whole purpose of having trash in lower right (os<X), switcher in upper right, apple upper left, is because of the idea of 'infinite largeness' in two directions (the lower left presumably is left free for an app to use)- one can get to the icon/object without even looking. Great in theory, but clicking on the *extreme* corners *misses* the object, which defeats the purpose. I like the metaphor of beginning to 'read the screen' from upper left to lower right, then reaching the end=trash.
Anyway, OSX completely abandons this logical and elegant UI in favor of something which is quite arbitrary. Perhaps Jobs likes the dock because of its NeXT heritage (=Jobs).

I just don't like anything on my desktop at all except the files I'm working on... not file *aliases*, but the real files. Windows 98, which I currently use, is nice in simply one way, which is that I can put my browser icon and My Computer in the taskbar, HIDE desktop Icons, AutoHide Taskbar, and Voila! all I see is my wallpaper on the screen, nothing else!

But when I want to get something done, I go to the school labs and use a B&W G3... I can lay out all my stuff on the desktop, drag things in and out of fetch, then PUT AWAY everthing or trash. OSX, although without question superior in its engineering than any other OS, would do better if it went back to the drawing board a little on certain UI issues. The longer Apple goes denying t th harder it will be to change. Make the screen empty, I say.
Also, what's up ith the GO menu? wh can't this idea be integrated into the Apple menu/or dock concept. Redundancy and muddleheadness is what I see (maybe I'm the muddle headed one, who knows?)
 
by the way....

the operating system of the future will be the Yahoo OS, AOL, or Earthlink OS, because (am I the only one to notice) much of what one uses a computer for is done through he internet. When I'm on my win98 laptop, it books up, auto dialsup to check my Yahoo mail, I can do ftp through Yahoo (on my win98 machine I install as few programs as possible because when the registry starts filling up the system gets hosed), search, compose letters, store photos, etc. You get the picture- what apple *needs* to do is be the first OS that can exist remotely on the inet as a portal like Yahoo, et al. or on the desktop, or both. As it is, many users spend most of their time within a browser window, not glorious Aqua. The company that writes desktop apps has failed to grasp the idea that the fture of computing will be in a different paradigm from that which we now know, something different even that Sun or MS network application sharing.

When I turn my computer on, I want to see Yahoo.

Why can't there be a inet OS that uses java controllers to control desktop apps running on a micro kernal?

By the way, I'm just an artist/free thinker, and don't know what the hell I'm talking about, so I suppose there are big problems with what I propose~
 
yahoo desktop

just put your browser inthe startup items folder, with yahoo as your start page (or login items in OSX) voila! you have Yahoo when you start your computer.

The browser OS thing is what scared the poop out of M$ when they and others realized you could browse local files etc in Netscape. Users would never have to look at windows, unless it crashed. So they shut it down. Drop your HD icon into a browser window and try it. Probably nothing new for most users on this forum.
I wonder how much the size of your monitor has to do with whether you like OSX or not?
 
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