Do Recent MBPs Support 8k Displays?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by mbp8k, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. mbp8k macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    #1
    Does anyone know or has tried their recent macbook pro with dells 8k (7680 x 4320) display at 60hz (UP3218K)?

    Pixel bandwidth might not be a limiting factor:
    - We know it supports 2 x 5k @ 60hz displays. [1]
    - Those displays each use a single usb-c thunderbolt-3 port which itself contains two displayport-1.2 signals. [2]
    - Displayport-1.2 is capable of 17.28 gbit/s, so four of these (two cables, each with two signals) theoretically supports up to 69.12 gbit/s. [3]
    - An 8k @ 60hz runs at 49.65 gbit/s, clearly less than two of these cables at max bandwidth. [3]
    - However, 8k @ 60hz does require 7% more throughput than two 5k @ 60hz displays, so that's still an unknown but we have a chance here.

    My chief concern is the port connectivity:
    - As mentioned a single usb-c thunderbolt-3 port on the macbook pro has two displayport 1.2 signals.
    - But Dell's monitor and Philip's upcoming monitor in next 3-8 months both have two displayport-1.3 ports. [4]
    - I doubt we can connect one usb-c / two displayport1.2s into one displayport1.3. And then repeated again for the other half. Or shown explicitly:
    - laptop_usbc0_displayport1.2+displayport1.2 -> monitor_displayport1.3_0
    - laptop_usbc1_displayport1.2+displayport1.2 -> monitor_displayport1.3_1

    So it seems like some sort of intermediate conversion would be needed to make that work.

    There are adapters cables on amazon that convert usb-c to displayport, but they all state a max display of 4k@60hz. And furthermore, my concern is that a single cable needs to combine both displayport1.2 signals into one displayport1.3 result before it is provided to the monitor. Existing cables I see on amazon dont mention dealing with these complexities.

    I do see an adapter (107006-BLK by Cable Matters) that acknowledges the dual displayport1.2 nature of the the MBPs usb-c thunderbolt3 port, but it converts that into two separate displayport1.2 outputs, whereas I would need them as a displayport1.3 output to drive the dell 8k display.

    References / Notes:
    [1] https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ (15-in section)
    [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro
    [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
    [4] Displayport1.3 and 1.4 have the same max throughput but displayport1.4 adds compression which isnt supported by the MBP anyway.
     
  2. sirisy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Location:
    Brazil
    #2
    Maybe it works with an egpu (using macos high sierra), but directly, I think not
     
  3. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    #3
    You might be able to plug in and run an 8k display, but it WON'T be at 8k resolution.

    Probably best you can get is 5k.
     
  4. mbp8k thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    #4
    Thanks for the tip Sirisy. I think that may just work, this company at least claims to have done it with an egpu but with no details provided.
    https://home.cinegy.com/index.php/about/news/176-cinegy-daniel2-gpu-codec-enters-public-beta

    And since the bandwidth requirement between gpu and cpu should be less in theory than gpu and display it seems performance shouldn't be impacted that badly. Maybe for gaming you would see a hit I'm not planning to game at this resolution, this is for normal desktop application usage but at high resolution.
     
  5. sirisy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Location:
    Brazil
    #5
    nice...

    Apparently they used Windows. I wanted to know if it is possible to get 8k @ 60hz on the macos with egpu.

    It is good to remember that, today, Apple does not support egpu on Windows/bootcamp (in the macos high sierra, today, it supports in "beta" still).
     
  6. mbp8k thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    #6
    I went ahead purchased an dell up3218k. Got my wife's macbookpro13,3 (2016 15in radeon pro 455, intel hd 530) w/ win10 + aorus gaming box 1080 egpu working at 8k@60hz. Was pretty seamless actually, used the typical bootcamp win install, win seemed to identify most drivers for the egpu box, bootcamp failed to install properly because of the amd driver conflict (one gfx card amd the other card nvidia), had to download bootcamp support sw (via bootcamp -> action -> download support drivers etc), specifically remove the amd driver from the installation directory, then execute bootcamp again manually from within windows. After that it all seems to work well fixing touch pad right click and a few other minor issues. Note that I didnt uninstall any drivers in this process.

    Osx on the other hand only recognized my monitor as a 4k monitor via the egpu, mind you I was using osx 10.12.6 so I can't speak for the latest version yet.

    I also tried it on an older macbookpro12,1 (retina 13in early-2015 iris 6100) w/ osx 10.11.6 and no luck. Also no luck with win10 on this system. Was using a TB2>TB3 adapter to connect to the egpu of course. Will probably update the os or try a few other methods as listed in egpu.io forums too eventually.

    So far I have not tested any games in any above configurations, so there could be more lingering issues (like possibly needing to disable the internal amd card). I only just got this stuff.

    I also notice at least in win that the epgu must be plugged in before my usb mouse, otherwise the egpu does not function.

    Regarding the up3218k - I do like the screen's half-matte / half-gloss feel, getting the most out of the functional and vivid worlds simultaneously. However, the calibration seems to add a graininess to the monitor that I didn't care much for so I disabled it which also incidentally makes the screen a bit brighter. The calibration-induced-graininess causes some weird effects that in certain circumstances look like very subtle static noise which you may not notice afar but up close are no good. Maybe fixable in future firmware updates. Also monitor comes with this useful sw tool for win10 that allows you to easily drag your windows into different sections of the screen and they auto full screen to the size of that pre-defined section.

    So far pretty good, but I'm ok with using only windows.
     
  7. sirisy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Location:
    Brazil
    #7
    tks for the informations

    Please, when you install High Sierra (10.13 or higher), let me know if it works 8k@60hz on the macos with the egpu.

    I also want an up3218k, but to use in macos.
     
  8. mbp8k thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    #8
    I did try osx 10.13.1 on an 2015 mbp. egpu worked fine but still maxed out at 4k@60hz. more details here:

    https://egpu.io/forums/implementati...nd-8k60hz-display-working-but-for-win10-only/

    I think the last shred of hope for osx at 8k is one of the two following options.
    - wait till an osx update adds native 8k support
    - hack display's EDID values and hope thats enough to get the os to handle this display properly, which I know very little about

    Regarding the EDID option, I did gather EDID info from the monitor in win10 and in osx and noticed that Win10 (MonitorInfoView) reports a different EDID than OSX (SwitchResX) for this monitor. Haven't attempted to override any EDID settings as of yet.
     
  9. sirisy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Location:
    Brazil
    #9
    Too bad it does not work on high sierra

    being optimistic, i believe that Apple, if it is to include support on macos, should include in the release of the version that will bring official support to egpu (march/spring 2018)
     
  10. KGB7 Suspended

    KGB7

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Location:
    Rockville, MD
    #10
    You need 2 display port cables to achieve 8k. Plus the gpu has to support that much bandwidth. A the moment, only desktop gpu has the horse power to run at 8k.

    Dude, YouTube has all the intel on this and it’s clearly stated on Dell site. Ignorance is not an excuse for asking your main question.
     
  11. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #11
    I believe mac OS Nvidia drivers only support dual DisplayPort on the Dell UP2715K 5K display. The Nvidia code contains a special case for the EDID vendor and product ID's for that display. A hack was created to make macOS Nvidia work with the LG UltraFine 5K (it's also a dual DisplayPort display except the two DisplayPort signals are encapsulated in a Thunderbolt 3 signal).

    Perhaps a similar hack can be created for the Dell 8K display.

    Or try an AMD eGPU, as the macOS AMD drivers suck less than the Nvidia drivers.

    I don't know if the macOS drivers support DisplayPort 1.4 on either AMD or Nvidia.

    Current Thunderbolt 3 ports (Alpine Ridge) can't work, as they currently only support DisplayPort 1.2. You need to wait for Titan Ridge to get DisplayPort 1.4. Even then, it will probably require two ports as Thunderbolt 3 will still be limited to 40 Gbps. Maybe Display Stream Compression (DSC) can be used in that case to make it work over a single Thunderbolt 3 cable. Or 4:2:2 (4 components per 2 pixels) or 4:2:0 (6 components per 4 pixels) can be used instead of 4:4:4 (3 components per pixel).
     
  12. sirisy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Location:
    Brazil
    #12
    Has anyone tested the new macOS Mojave with the Dell up3218k display connected through an thunderbolt 3 egpu? was added support for 8k@60hz in the macOS?

    @mbp8k?

    tks all
     

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11 October 22, 2017