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Do you agree with this? (Make MBP thick again)

StellarVixen

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Mar 1, 2018
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Earth


Dave Lee is known as someone who doesn't have high opinion of Apple, but recently he made a video, which I agree with.


I am always for lighter and easier to use, but there is a limit where you have to start sacrificing one thing at the expense of another. And I think that Apple has chosen wrong one. People who buy MacBook Pro need power and versatility at first. They can tolerate couple of hundred of grams more if that mean it's necessary for the machine to function to its full potential.

Users who prefer more portability than power, shall look at other options, such as Air, and plain MacBook.


But the thing is, I think Apple will keep being stubborn as it always were. They have a belief about how things should be done, and they stick to it, no matter what.


What do you think?
 

StellarVixen

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Original poster
Mar 1, 2018
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I think Apple should make whatever they want, and people should purchase whatever they want out of the choices they have available. Apple May change when their customers indicate change is necessary by taking their purchases elsewhere.

Joe

I am wondering if you are saying that just to justify your purchase, or would you think the same even if you didn't buy this years MBP...


You are basically saying that Apple shall not listen to customer feedback?
 
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jerryk

macrumors 603
Nov 3, 2011
6,193
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SF Bay Area
May be something a little ticker and heavier like the Dell XPS, which was around the same as the 2015 15". But not much beyond that.

The only exception I can see is if they do have a 16" display that Kuo has guessed. It will be slightly bigger (depending on bezels) than the 15", but not much heavier.
 
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canuckRus

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May 18, 2014
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I think Apple should make whatever they want, and people should purchase whatever they want out of the choices they have available. Apple May change when their customers indicate change is necessary by taking their purchases elsewhere.

Well said. Requirements vary by customer. Market will dictate success level.
 
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xxray

macrumors 65816
Jul 27, 2013
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2,058
Dave Lee has always come off as very fair to Apple imo.

I’d be ok with going a tiny bit thicker. The thing I’d be most against is a weight gain. Macs of all types have always been thin and light and pushed the envelope when it comes to thin and light. If Apple didn’t keep pushing the envelope, the laptop market overall probably wouldn’t be as thin and light and portable as it is now. I’m encouraging this choice that Apple makes.

However, there definitely seems to be some quality issues or compromises that resulted in this generation (stage lighting, keyboard, throttling), whether it was a result of the thinness or not. I actually love the butterfly keyboards more than any other keyboard design, but I wish they would find a way to make it as reliable as their pre-butterfly keyboards.
 
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Falhófnir

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Aug 19, 2017
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A smidgen thicker to accommodate the magic keyboard, a redesigned screen connector (to eliminate flexgate) and I think I'd be satisfied. I'm honestly not sure how much better the cooling could be without making it dramatically thicker. The cooling is already better than on the 2012-15 era machines, the XPS 15 is considerably thicker and still is notorious for cooling issues. If you look at machines that can adequately cool an i9, you're talking about an inch thick gaming laptop.

The only way I could see the latter is if they made a pretty well unibody-era dimension MBP which is basically an iMac Pro made mobile. I don't see them going for that for their mainstream machines (such as the Pros now are).
 
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petvas

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Jul 20, 2006
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Mannheim, Germany
I love using my 2018 MBP when on the road. It is powerful and really mobile. I don’t think about using it everywhere.
Apple shouldn’t make the MBP thicker, they should find a way to make the keyboard better and more reliable without increasing the size or thickness of the device.
 
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cubbie5150

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Mar 4, 2007
583
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Just because I think the thinness obsession is stupid doesn't mean a significant part of the consumer base agrees. Unless & until a critical mass of buyers vote with their wallets, Apple will keep on keepin' on.

I'm resigned to the fact that someone like me who wants a 15" screen needs to be open to switching to a Windows machine with better thermal handling (among other reasons to stray from Apple, to be clear).
 
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ilikewhey

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May 14, 2014
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A smidgen thicker to accommodate the magic keyboard, a redesigned screen connector (to eliminate flexgate) and I think I'd be satisfied. I'm honestly not sure how much better the cooling could be without making it dramatically thicker. The cooling is already better than on the 2012-15 era machines, the XPS 15 is considerably thicker and still is notorious for cooling issues. If you look at machines that can adequately cool an i9, you're talking about an inch thick gaming laptop.

The only way I could see the latter is if they made a pretty well unibody-era dimension MBP which is basically an iMac Pro made mobile. I don't see them going for that for their mainstream machines (such as the Pros now are).
you be surprised how much cooling an extra 2cm of cooling fins can do.

there are many pc laptop that provides sufficent cooling without going thicc, take a look at Zephyrus by asus.
 
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Falhófnir

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Aug 19, 2017
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Just because I think the thinness obsession is stupid doesn't mean a significant part of the consumer base agrees. Unless & until a critical mass of buyers vote with their wallets, Apple will keep on keepin' on.

I'm resigned to the fact that someone like me who wants a 15" screen needs to be open to switching to a Windows machine with better thermal handling (among other reasons to stray from Apple, to be clear).
I have to say, I certainly see the appeal of the machines as they are. The 15" Pro is pretty well as portable as the (2017) Air which is pretty remarkably svelte. But I think it's impossible to deny they have made too many durability compromises to get there. As above, on thermals, these machines do a remarkable job, not just for their size but in that they have a better cooling system than either the retinas that came before and particularly the unibody machines which suffered terribly despite being nearly an inch thick. This is all also against the context they were designed for cooler 10nm chips from 2017, whereas intel have actually delivered even hotter running 14nm chips that struggle to keep to their TDP. I have my doubts that a slightly larger chassis would make a significant difference, to run an i9 at it's maximum sustained performance is something no comparable machine can achieve. You are looking at a different class to do that.
[doublepost=1552425966][/doublepost]
you be surprised how much cooling an extra 2cm of cooling fins can do.

there are many pc laptop that provides sufficent cooling without going thicc, take a look at Zephyrus by asus.
I was thinking of the likes of the XPS 15 - it also struggles with the i9, I believe the Zephyrus has that exotic design with the KB shifted forward and the bottom that opens up to facilitate better airflow? From what I have seen, the i9 really doesn't sit well within it's theoretical TDP. I can only assume the 8C 9th gen monster is going to be even worse :confused:

I do agree Apple could probably do with making a larger MBP with significantly more powerful internals whatever form it takes though. Also bringing back Magsafe for a 120W+ power supply so they aren't so constrained on GPU choices.
 
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LogicalApex

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Nov 13, 2015
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498
The issues the reviewer thinks would be solved by adding bulk will not be solved by adding bulk I don't think. Apple had soldered on RAM and storage in the Mac mini in the same size chassis as older generation Minis which had swappable RAM and storage. I don't think it is purely a space management issue that motivates them with removing user replaceable storage. It allows Apple to control more of its devices and this is nothing new from Apple at all.

Even if Apple were to offer replaceable storage I'd imagine they would do so using only Apple SSDs which include custom silicone from Apple which they don't sell directly. So users are left to either get them from otherwise damaged or parted out machines or replace the device. If Apple were to sell them there wouldn't be any real discount since there isn't competition at play.

The only thing thickness could bring is a different keyboard design, but that isn't a universally great solution. Some people love the new keyboard and some hate it. We're not looking at an issue that has universal appeal like when we all asked for thinker iPhones to increase battery life (which they delivered on).

I don't see any real need to adjust the MBP as the 2018 is a great device from my vantage point.
 
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ilikewhey

macrumors 68000
May 14, 2014
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I have to say, I certainly see the appeal of the machines as they are. The 15" Pro is pretty well as portable as the (2017) Air which is pretty remarkably svelte. But I think it's impossible to deny they have made too many durability compromises to get there. As above, on thermals, these machines do a remarkable job, not just for their size but in that they have a better cooling system than either the retinas that came before and particularly the unibody machines which suffered terribly despite being nearly an inch thick. This is all also against the context they were designed for cooler 10nm chips from 2017, whereas intel have actually delivered even hotter running 14nm chips that struggle to keep to their TDP. I have my doubts that a slightly larger chassis would make a significant difference, to run an i9 at it's maximum sustained performance is something no comparable machine can achieve. You are looking at a different class to do that.
[doublepost=1552425966][/doublepost]
I was thinking of the likes of the XPS 15 - it also struggles with the i9, I believe the Zephyrus has that exotic design with the KB shifted forward and the bottom that opens up to facilitate better airflow? From what I have seen, the i9 really doesn't sit well within it's theoretical TDP. I can only assume the 8C 9th gen monster is going to be even worse :confused:

I do agree Apple could probably do with making a larger MBP with significantly more powerful internals whatever form it takes though. Also bringing back Magsafe for a 120W+ power supply so they aren't so constrained on GPU choices.
yeah they basically opened up the bottom to improve airflow, but that can be done without lifting up the entire bottom, apple just need to make sure there are dedicated intake slots and better heat transferring materials for cooling, a hybrid copper/aluminium heatpipe would do wonder,

then there is the fans, by making the laptop 1cm thicker, the fan blades can be increased to push more airflow, i been messing around with air coolers on the pc side since high school and the amount of cooling innovation has came a long way.
[doublepost=1552433621][/doublepost]
The issues the reviewer thinks would be solved by adding bulk will not be solved by adding bulk I don't think. Apple had soldered on RAM and storage in the Mac mini in the same size chassis as older generation Minis which had swappable RAM and storage. I don't think it is purely a space management issue that motivates them with removing user replaceable storage. It allows Apple to control more of its devices and this is nothing new from Apple at all.

Even if Apple were to offer replaceable storage I'd imagine they would do so using only Apple SSDs which include custom silicone from Apple which they don't sell directly. So users are left to either get them from otherwise damaged or parted out machines or replace the device. If Apple were to sell them there wouldn't be any real discount since there isn't competition at play.

The only thing thickness could bring is a different keyboard design, but that isn't a universally great solution. Some people love the new keyboard and some hate it. We're not looking at an issue that has universal appeal like when we all asked for thinker iPhones to increase battery life (which they delivered on).

I don't see any real need to adjust the MBP as the 2018 is a great device from my vantage point.
i very much disagree, there are alot of benefit going thicc and keyboard is just one of them, by increasing thickness mbp can have a denser fan, making it more quiet while pushing more air, a thicker heatsink, allowing the cpu/gpu to work underload cooler, and a more travel keyboard. and last but not least, more battery capacity.

im not asking apple to make it 2 inch thicker, but a general half a cm or so would be beneficial alrdy.
 
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BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
639
242
I agree, he succinctly describes the issues, related to Apple's zeal for thinness that no one asked for. I am genuinely curious to see what the 2019 MBPs will look like

I personally think the redesign is coming in 2020 however I would not be surprised if it was indeed announced this year given all of the issues with their current generations designs.
 
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Expobill

Suspended
May 30, 2018
1,424
927
Holy bejebus, batsman, That laptop pictured is thicker than the 1990 ibook and 4x the size of my mac mini!
 
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No. 44

macrumors member
Oct 29, 2016
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275
Long gone
I am saying that Apple should do as Apple wishes and consumers should do as consumers wish.

Apple doesn't "wish" for anything. Corporations don't have wishes.

I, on the other hand, really do wish that Apple would go back to the adage that "form follows function". Since 2016 function has been taking a back seat to the obsession of a few Apple executives with thinness; the present keyboard-fiasco is one of the more unfortunate results. If things don't change, I'll be forced to find a company that can manufacture an ergonomic, reliable keyboard.
 
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Painter2002

macrumors 65816
May 9, 2017
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Austin, TX
Apple doesn't "wish" for anything. Corporations don't have wishes.
Well, I mean the probably "wish" to keep making more money... lol.

I would be fine going back to a thicker MacBook Pro (like unibody thickness) if it corresponded with better cooling and reliability. However I don't dislike the current design and the slimness is attractive and very lightweight; and I don't want to see us go back to the brick computers of the 90s and 00s. There has to be a happy medium between portability and functionality, and this is something that I hope Apple gets right on their next redesign.
 
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