Do you get blacklisted for returning too often?

[satchmo]

I realize Apple is a 3 trillion dollar company so it’s probably not even a blip on their radar. But do you get blacklisted for returning too often?

Have you ever ordered more than one watch and returned them all? Additionally, were they high end stainless steel or Hermès versions?

I’ve only returned an aluminum watch last year, but considering a graphite stainless steel AW7 this year.

 

[ssledoux]

I hope not because I’ve been on a roll with watch bands lately. I can’t get a good fit to save my life, and I thought I had figured the solo out, so I ordered 4 different colors, and returned them all, along with a couple other items.

 

[Shadowbech]

They won’t blacklist you per se. Just know that they do keep track of returns and once in a while there is a possibility that they can flag you for too many returns. Just becareful, they won’t ban you from the store tho. But they may refuse returns if they deem necessary.

 

[akash.nu]

I think over the years I’ve been on this site I’ve only seen one such case where Apple refused return / resale to one individual. Can’t remember exactly who that was or what device it was related to. I think it was an iPhone.

 

[satchmo]

I hope not because I’ve been on a roll with watch bands lately. I can’t get a good fit to save my life, and I thought I had figured the solo out, so I ordered 4 different colors, and returned them all, along with a couple other items.

I suspect watch bands are even less of an issue given how little they cost for Apple to make.
Add Covid to the mix, where many can’t get to a store to physically try them on for size.

They won’t blacklist you per se. Just know that they do keep track of returns and once in a while there is a possibility that they can flag you for too many returns. Just becareful, they won’t ban you from the store tho. But they may refuse returns if they deem necessary.

I also wonder if they have a certain ratio of purchases to returns. I certainly spend money elsewhere at Apple on Macs and iPads and Services.

I often wonder how some YouTubers are ordering every new watches bands for review, only to return them all. Sure, some popular channels can afford it, but there are those who admittedly return opened products.

 

[nburwell]

I have definitely returned a good amount of watch bands to Apple over the past couple of months due to me not liking the look on my wrist or just the fit in general. But I would think that it would take a lot for you to be flagged by Apple.

I have never returned a big ticket item to Apple (ie. MBP, iPhone, iPad, etc.)

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

All I know is they do track it, and I've witnessed Genius' commenting on it. It hasn't happened often, but back when I lived closer to an Apple Store, there were a few times when they commented on it. The last one was a young girl that swore that she didn't spill anything on her brand new MacBook Pro, that had been replaced under warranty just a month before. The Genius said that they had reached their limit for warranty replacements, and Apple would not replace it again. They recommended purchasing a new one, and 'being more careful'. The spoiled teenage girl pouted, and the mom, dripping in high priced brand names impressed me. She said 'No, thank you. We will 'wait' on replacing this. Maybe she (glaring at daughter) will value the next one more'. I was so impressed, I almost hugged her. Yes, the daughter that has wasted what, three MacBook Pros will have to suffer without one for a while. AWESOME!!! *shrug*

They looked me up too and commented that I didn't have many returns. I just remembered that. I got 'the look' at Worst Try for a string of returns on failed junk I had unfortunately bought. Home Depot has refused returns from some people. It costs them money. They have to balance the need to save money, and their public reputation.

 

[KaliYoni]

But do you get blacklisted for returning too often?

It is possible, especially if Apple participates in retail industry refund and return reporting services or uses social-behavior scoring providers.

More in this earlier thread:

Apple Online Store ban

Even if OP's story as told here is incomplete, they might have tripped a third party loss prevention trigger. The ease of collecting, sharing, and analyzing online behavioral data has made seemingly unrelated actions, such as giving a Lyft driver 1 star, into criteria that help determine if a...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[ivanwi11iams]

Between Apple and Best Buy, I hope that doesn't happen to me. I have gotten much better about not returning.
But, honestly, sometimes things just do not work or fit, as expected...

 

[laptech]

Retailers WILL and DO keep logs of how many returns they get because in many countries consumer law and sale of goods law stipulates that once a product has been removed from it's packaging it can no longer be sold as new and must be sold as used or refurbished which causes problems for the retailer because they are not allowed to sell used or refurbished items at the same price as a new item. So yes, every time someone orders multiple watch bands from Apple you can be guaranteed that Apple are keeping a log of what you keep on ordering and returning because every return means they lose money because they cannot re-sell it as new.

So whilst people seem to be a bit blasé about their ordering habits and not being blacklisted, do note that your ordering habits will have been noted and thus your account will be getting monitored more closely by the retailer.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Retailers WILL and DO keep logs of how many returns they get because in many countries consumer law and sale of goods law stipulates that once a product has been removed from it's packaging it can no longer be sold as new and must be sold as used or refurbished which causes problems for the retailer because they are not allowed to sell used or refurbished items at the same price as a new item. So yes, every time someone orders multiple watch bands from Apple you can be guaranteed that Apple are keeping a log of what you keep on ordering and returning because every return means they lose money because they cannot re-sell it as new.

So whilst people seem to be a bit blasé about their ordering habits and not being blacklisted, do note that your ordering habits will have been noted and thus your account will be getting monitored more closely by the retailer.

From what I've heard, some countries require resold/used 'stuff' to carry a full warranty too, which can get expensive if they didn't catch the problem in the refurbishment process. Some companies just dump their returns in a shredder, and some that do refurb, do a horrible job at it. Some retailers do a fantastic job, but it varies so much. But, yes, every return is a hit on a budget line somewhere.

On the watch bands: Is that why they seem to be so damn expensive? I mean, the woven bands seem just insanely expensive, for what they are. *shrug*

 

[bob24]

I realize Apple is a 3 trillion dollar company so it’s probably not even a blip on their radar. But do you get blacklisted for returning too often?

Hard to say where they draw the line, but I don't think the size of the company matters. At the end of the day returns have a cost, which is built into the business model and covered by profits on non-returned orders (i.e. the more returns they are getting, the higher prices they will charge for their products in order to preserve their overall margin). But having a flexible return policy can also increase their business (customers are more likely to order if they know they have an option to return the item in case they don't like it), and compensate for that cost.

With that in mind, their level of flexibility with returns depends on where they think the sweet spot is between encouraging more sales because customers feel more at ease to order, and return policies been abused and ending-up costing more than the profits on the extra-sales they have generated.

I do think they need to draw a line in the sand somewhere whereby they tell people they have gone too far in terms of returns, otherwise they are leaving the door open to serious abuse. But I doubt returning 2 watches as a once-off even as you suggest would be crossing that line (if if becomes a recurring event and every year a given customer orders 2 watches and ends-up up returning both of them, I think after a while they might get blocked - but this is just me guessing).

 

[bob24]

I hope not because I’ve been on a roll with watch bands lately. I can’t get a good fit to save my life, and I thought I had figured the solo out, so I ordered 4 different colors, and returned them all, along with a couple other items.

If in the meantime you bought and kept a high-end Apple Watch and/or some Mac/iPad/etc, I don't think they would care about a few bands returns.

But TBH if they see a customers ordering many bands, returning all of them, and not purchasing anything else, it probably makes business sense to blacklist returns for that customer eventually.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Yes, you can get blacklisted.

 

[satchmo]

If in the meantime you bought and kept a high-end Apple Watch and/or some Mac/iPad/etc, I don't think they would care about a few bands returns.

That's my thought as well...I'm guessing there's an algorithm that calculates the ratio of dollars spent to dollars returned.

And perhaps how long you've been an Apple customer. If they see you've been with them since the 90's, they might want to keep loyal customers happy.

 

[MarkC426]

Retailers WILL and DO keep logs of how many returns they get because in many countries consumer law and sale of goods law stipulates that once a product has been removed from it's packaging it can no longer be sold as new and must be sold as used or refurbished which causes problems for the retailer because they are not allowed to sell used or refurbished items at the same price as a new item. So yes, every time someone orders multiple watch bands from Apple you can be guaranteed that Apple are keeping a log of what you keep on ordering and returning because every return means they lose money because they cannot re-sell it as new.

So whilst people seem to be a bit blasé about their ordering habits and not being blacklisted, do note that your ordering habits will have been noted and thus your account will be getting monitored more closely by the retailer.

I just can't get my head around the 'usa' culture of buying something with a high chance of just taking it back, within a particular grace period.
I have never done this, I buy something because it's what I want, only returned if faulty.

The amount of threads I have seen here which recommend people TRY a device and return it....it's nuts.

 

[wilberforce]

Just don't get blacklisted from Amazon. Some serial return-abusers have discovered to their chagrin how much they depend on Amazon. An enormous marketplace denied to you. Your Kindle, Fire TV stick, Alexa, Echo, Prime Video, Audible books, and other digital content also stop working. There is no recourse: an Amazon account is not a constitutional right.

 

[bluespark]

I just can't get my head around the 'usa' culture of buying something with a high chance of just taking it back, within a particular grace period.
I have never done this, I buy something because it's what I want, only returned if faulty.

The amount of threads I have seen here which recommend people TRY a device and return it....it's nuts.

I mostly agree with this, and I think it is an example of an entitlement culture that sadly is flourishing here. That said, the stores are often enthusiastic participants in this culture. More than once, I've had an Apple Store employee encourage me to buy something I was looking at, assuring me that I could later return it if I didn't like it.

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

I had my Amazon account shut down, for returning too much stuff.

And they are even easier on returns than Apple.

 

[bob24]

I mostly agree with this, and I think it is an example of an entitlement culture that sadly is flourishing here. That said, the stores are often enthusiastic participants in this culture. More than once, I've had an Apple Store employee encourage me to buy something I was looking at, assuring me that I could later return it if I didn't like it.

It would actually be interesting to see comparisons of return rates in North America, Europe, and Asia (I think I ranked them from highest to lowest here, but I have no evidence).

It would also be interesting to have the point of view of company executives. I also tend to think this seems overdone and a bit silly in the US, but as you said retailers are often encouraging it, and presumably they wouldn’t do it if they didn’t think it was net positive for their business.

 

[akash.nu]

It would actually be interesting to see comparisons of return rates in North America, Europe, and Asia (I think I ranked them from highest to lowest here, but I have no evidence).

It would also be interesting to have the point of view of company executives. I also tend to think this seems overdone and a bit silly in the US, but as you said retailers are often encouraging it, and presumably they wouldn’t do it if they didn’t think it was net positive for their business.

In Asia it’s almost impossible to return an item unless the buyer can prove manufacturing defects. At least in most countries I’ve visited in Southeast Asia.

 

[ssledoux]

If in the meantime you bought and kept a high-end Apple Watch and/or some Mac/iPad/etc, I don't think they would care about a few bands returns.

But TBH if they see a customers ordering many bands, returning all of them, and not purchasing anything else, it probably makes business sense to blacklist returns for that customer eventually.

Truthfully though, the bulk of the Apple products I have weren’t purchased through Apple. My online Apple store purchase history currently has more returns than items kept for sure (a couple cancellations too). All of my cellular devices have been purchased through AT&T, and the grandkids’ iPads from Best Buy, WalMart, etc. Even my local Apple store purchases don’t show up in my order history on the Apple store app.

 

[bob24]

In Asia it’s almost impossible to return an item unless the buyer can prove manufacturing defects. At least in most countries I’ve visited in Southeast Asia.

Indeed this is also what I would expect from local retailers (I haven’t bought things over there in a while, but on top of what you mention I also remember from a few years ago that it was common practice in Southeast Asia for customers to open the box and make sure everything looks fine before paying - presumably because both the shop and the customer want to avoid any argument related to a return).

Having said they if you buy directly from Apple I would assume they are applying the same return policy as they do in the US and Europe?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I mostly agree with this, and I think it is an example of an entitlement culture that sadly is flourishing here. That said, the stores are often enthusiastic participants in this culture. More than once, I've had an Apple Store employee encourage me to buy something I was looking at, assuring me that I could later return it if I didn't like it.

Probably no surprise, but when I was at university, there was a high-end clothing store downtown. Apparently there was quite a problem with the sorority sisters 'renting' prom and party dresses, and returning them after being worn a few times. Hideously expensive designer dresses bought before big events, and returned, unlaundered, days later. Heck, one story was that an entire bridal party 'rented' their entire parties clothing by buying it all, and returning it. ALL of it. At the time, underwear was returnable (somehow), and shirts, ties, shoes, socks, dresses, all of it. The store tried to limit returns, and went so far as to put sales tags and 'Item not returnable if this tag removed' tags in conspicuous locations on items sold, but none of it stopped the scammers, until they just dropped the high end lines within a month of large occasions where that kind of theft happened, making the returns past the window for returning them. Eventually the store went out of business, and ran an article in the school newspaper announcing one of the reasons being their 'overly generous' return policies, and how so many 'in the greek system' took advantage of it. They said that far too often the returned clothing items weren't resellable because of body odor and stains, and occasionally the items were 'recklessly cleaned'. It caused a major hush over the greek system, and a lot of gnashing of teeth from the surrounding community. It was interesting to see the reaction. Some groups the sororities supported dropped them as sponsors. Stupid entitled human tricks.

 

[laptech]

Probably no surprise, but when I was at university, there was a high-end clothing store downtown. Apparently there was quite a problem with the sorority sisters 'renting' prom and party dresses, and returning them after being worn a few times. Hideously expensive designer dresses bought before big events, and returned, unlaundered, days later. Heck, one story was that an entire bridal party 'rented' their entire parties clothing by buying it all, and returning it. ALL of it. At the time, underwear was returnable (somehow), and shirts, ties, shoes, socks, dresses, all of it. The store tried to limit returns, and went so far as to put sales tags and 'Item not returnable if this tag removed' tags in conspicuous locations on items sold, but none of it stopped the scammers, until they just dropped the high end lines within a month of large occasions where that kind of theft happened, making the returns past the window for returning them. Eventually the store went out of business, and ran an article in the school newspaper announcing one of the reasons being their 'overly generous' return policies, and how so many 'in the greek system' took advantage of it. They said that far too often the returned clothing items weren't resellable because of body odor and stains, and occasionally the items were 'recklessly cleaned'. It caused a major hush over the greek system, and a lot of gnashing of teeth from the surrounding community. It was interesting to see the reaction. Some groups the sororities supported dropped them as sponsors. Stupid entitled human tricks.

A certain type of person(s) are the ones who behave like that. They are the ones with the attitude of 'if they allow me to do it then it is their fault for allowing it to happen'.