Do you think the mMP should have an optical drive bay?

Do you think the mMP should have an 5.25" optical drive bay?

  • Yes, two bays, just like the cMP.

    Votes: 9 9.2%
  • Yes, but one bay is fine these days.

    Votes: 9 9.2%
  • Yes, but use a slim, slot-loading drive so the case can be smaller.

    Votes: 10 10.2%
  • Yes, but only for the space--I'm going to mount other stuff in there.

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • No, use an external drive if you need to.

    Votes: 36 36.7%
  • No. What is this, 1990?

    Votes: 32 32.7%

  • Total voters
    98
  • Poll closed .

ActionableMango

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Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
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I did not mean to start arguments about the intent of the last optical disk poll. So here is a new poll specifically for the mMP.

FWIW, I'm not voting. I'm in middle of switching to Win/PC so I don't have a horse in this race.

Edit: By "mMP" I mean the forthcoming "Modular" Mac Pro.
 
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JMacHack

macrumors 6502
Mar 16, 2017
345
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Mea Culpa, I didn't mean to start the argument in the last thread.

As for me, I'm currently thinking about removing the optical drive in my cMP to put a 2nd SSD in there, so I really don't care if the mMP has an optical drive or not.
 

ActionableMango

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Sep 21, 2010
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OK, I voted. But, IMO, the first poll asked the better question!

Lou
To be fair to everyone, I think they are two very different questions. One is curiosity about who still uses optical disks on any kind of computer, and this one is about what the mMP should do.
 

AidenShaw

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Feb 8, 2003
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To be fair to everyone, I think they are two very different questions. One is curiosity about who still uses optical disks on any kind of computer, and this one is about what the mMP should do.
My vote is for:

o Have one slim-line slot, and one normal 5.25" slot in the larger mMP. Default is that both are empty.
o No slots in the small-form-factor - or maybe one slim-line if Apple keeps Jony Ive away from the design so that it's useful.​

In my Dell T3610 mid-tower system (same CPU/chipset as the hex core MP6,1) I opted for a slim-line DVD-writer and a full-size BD-writer. I've only used the DVD a couple of times when the BD was busy, and once for a week when the BD was getting errors (turned out to be dust on the lens - a quick blast from an air-can fixed that).

It's also very useful to have the 5.25" bay - you can fit four SSDs in that space if you don't want a normal sized 5.25" optical. (At least if you have a standard PCIe slot for a four port SAS or SATA controller.)
 
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ActionableMango

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o Have one slim-line slot, and one normal 5.25" slot in the larger mMP
o No slots in the small-form-factor​
There will be two models of Mac Pro? I would love for that to be so, basically sell both a cMP and a nMP. But I don't think Apple will do it.
 

biscuit0819

macrumors member
Nov 24, 2016
47
18
It'll take up a lot of space and it's something that barely anyone would use. I want a 2tb hard drive too but I don't expect that to come as standard. I'm perfectly fine with the machine being a 'lowest common denominator' product that allows me to add peripherals as required.
 

AidenShaw

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Feb 8, 2003
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There will be two models of Mac Pro? I would love for that to be so, basically sell both a cMP and a nMP. But I don't think Apple will do it.
Let's not say "cMP" and "nMP" in this context. One doesn't have to be a "new cheesegrater", and the other doesn't need to be a "new trashcan". And why not three models - small form factor (SFF), mid-tower, and large tower.

Many people love the nMP because it's quiet and small. The SFF mMP is the "Mac Mini Pro" - no hardware needs to be shared with the nMP or mMP (and hopefully that gawd-awful thermal core idea is sent to the bottom of the ocean).

The SFF is the xMac. albeit with external expansion. Much cheaper, because it will be single GPU in the base config, Core i7 (or whatever is current at the time that it ships). Probably doesn't need more than one standard PCIe slot.

The mid-tower is single socket with 12 DIMM slots. Four PCIe slots, supporting dual SLI (double spaced slots - no slot wasted because of wide GPUs). Nice rack of ports, 4 to 6 NVMe SSD slots, and three or four 3.5" spinner slots.

The large tower takes the mid-tower motherboard, and connects an expansion board to the QPI with a second socket, 12 more DIMM slots, 40 more lanes of PCIe.

This is more or less what you can buy today from HP/Dell/Lenovo/Supermicro/.... (Although I don't think any of them put the second socket on an expansion board anymore.)
 
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ActionableMango

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The mid-tower is single socket with 12 DIMM slots. Four PCIe slots, supporting dual SLI (double spaced slots - no slot wasted because of wide GPUs). Nice rack of ports, 4 to 6 NVMe SSD slots, and three or four 3.5" spinner slots.
If it had an industry standard UEFI, I could see myself switching back to Mac in the future.
 
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poematik13

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2014
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It's been at least 3-4 years since I've needed to use optical media for something. The last holdout was the company that develops my film rolls, but they finally switched to an FTP client to send scans.

If I need to watch a blu ray or DVD movie I use a PS4 for that.

In the rare instance that a client insists for me to send something on a disc, I have an Asus USB 3.0 blu ray burner that's rotting in my closet that I use to make a disc

It's dead, Jim. Unless you're some weirdo archivist or have a bunch of old games that you want to play. Optical drives are legacy tech and thus have no place in Apple hardware. PC guys love it though, just like how they still put PS/2 ports on 2017 motherboards
 

AidenShaw

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Feb 8, 2003
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It'll take up a lot of space and it's something that barely anyone would use. I want a 2tb hard drive too but I don't expect that to come as standard. I'm perfectly fine with the machine being a 'lowest common denominator' product that allows me to add peripherals as required.
Yes, but that 2 TB drive should cost me $70 plus maybe $5 for a SATA cable if it doesn't have drive bays.

Not $70 for the drive and $200 for the T-Bolt enclosure and $40 for 2 m T-Bolt cable. (Plus the noise from another power supply and small fans.)
[doublepost=1492472306][/doublepost]
PC guys love it though, just like how they still put PS/2 ports on 2017 motherboards
What does it hurt to have a PS/2 port on the IO header?

Apple guys love to find completely irrelevant details to mock the far more popular platform - but in the end they only look silly for doing it.

And in the enterprise, there is a lot of infrastructure based on PS/2 and VGA KVM systems - infrastructure that won't be replaced overnight just because Apple decided that "rose gold" was the new "in color".

You look silly.
[doublepost=1492472807][/doublepost]
If it had an industry standard UEFI, I could see myself switching back to Mac in the future.
+1000

One of the threads on "why will it take Apple a year or more for the mMP" said that some of the time will be needed to replace the UEFI on the motherboards with Apple's bastard proprietary EFI.

picard-facepalm[1].jpg
 
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flat five

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Feb 6, 2007
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i voted 'No'.

if it did, i wouldn't be mad or anything like that.

it's just that i feel it's unnecessary considering the size vs the amount of data being messed with in there and the speed at which it's being messed with.. you can put way more speed and capacity in a smaller space than the drive.. same goes for usb sticks if burning is being used for physical storage.

i understand that some people do it the oldskool way.. and possibly enjoy doing it that way.. but i think we're at the point to where even they recognize they're doing it the old school way..

idk, i feel flash storage as well as alternative delivery methods have surpassed optical in so many ways.. capacity & speed as mentioned but also in durability, reliability, and probably longevity.

should they support the option for a plug in device? --> by all means.. but inside the computer which everyone buying the computer will own? no, unnecessary..

worth a mention too-- a considerable amount of people will actually not want an optical drive in a near future computer purchase.. like, it might be an anti-selling point in certain cases.
 

flat five

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Feb 6, 2007
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i guess i'll say this on the matter:

of any theories or hypotheses etc i've said so far about mMP, this is the single one that i'd bet money on.. that we won't be seeing a 5.25 optical drive in any future mac computer.

any takers? :)
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
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i guess i'll say this on the matter:

of any theories or hypotheses etc i've said so far about mMP, this is the single one that i'd bet money on.. that we won't be seeing a 5.25 optical drive in any future mac computer.

any takers? :)
Always throwing the baby out with the bath water, you are.

Your bet assumes that there will be future Mac computers. I'm not willing to bet on that - a year from now the Amigos could simply can the Imac Pro and mMP projects.

By killing everything else, the Amigos could fulfill their prophesy that the Ipod Pro is the only computer that professionals need.
 
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ssgbryan

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
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I prefer 2 full size bays.

If I want a Blu-Ray player and a Superdrive, I can.
If I want my Blu-Ray Player and a HDD, I can.
If I want 2 HDD, I can.
If I want 4 (or more) 2.5 SSDs, I can.

Choice - I prefer it myself, although I understand that many Mac users fear it.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,080
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I did not mean to start arguments about the intent of the last optical disk poll. So here is a new poll specifically for the mMP.

FWIW, I'm not voting. I'm in middle of switching to Win/PC so I don't have a horse in this race.

Edit: By "mMP" I mean the forthcoming "Modular" Mac Pro.
(And, FWIW, I'm not voting. I'm firmly in the Windows/Linux camp so I don't have a horse in this race. We have a bunch of people in the group with Apple laptops - but few of them run Apple software on the laptop. They run Microsoft Office to connect with the rest of the company. They use Chrome for browsing (literally nobody uses Safari). Most of the time they use terminal to open SSH sessions on our real servers.)

Maybe we should have a post where we spend a week developing the questions, then submit the poll. You know, like customer research is done in the real world.

Anyway - this second round is still focused on 5.25" optical bays and slim-line bays. By calling them that, we're putting blinders of how people would think about using those spaces.

If the "m" in "mMP" means modular - these are just bays. One is "small" and sized to hold a slim-line (laptop) optical drive - but it could also hold 2 to 6 NVMe SSD blades, a couple of 2.5" SSDs, or a 4G WAN radio, or some combination of those. The other is "large", and could hold a standard 5.25" optical, or 4 to 6 2.5" SSDs (NVMe, SAS or SATA), maybe 16 NVMe SSD blades. Or whatever.

Stop thinking inside the boxes.
 

absynth

macrumors regular
Nov 8, 2009
165
35
My car only takes CD's and I prefer to dj with CD's (although its mostly USB these days) so having the option would be great. Still bummed they removed it from the mac mini.
 

weckart

macrumors 601
Nov 7, 2004
4,665
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Then opt out of the slim optical, and put 16 NVMe SSD blades in the 5.25" bay.
Sounds like thermal hell to me. Are we going back to huge finned heatspreaders and whooshy big fans, too? Going to be a struggle to fit all that into an optical drive bay.
 

Chancha

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2014
919
790
I am one of those who use optical discs on daily basis and I voted yes in your last poll. But for this one I am giving a fat no.

Despite my personal workflow involving optical discs, I can see most of the "pros" out there haven't touched them for up to a decade. The 5.25" form factor, the power and data cable management, sheer bulk of the drive unit(s) etc all will limit the case design of the next MP. More importantly, even for the highest density discs out there like DL blu-ray, the bandwidth required to smoothly operate them is very well within USB3 let alone TB3. External drives therefore make more sense for particular use cases, and if someone really want a chassis of multiple optical bays with integrated PSU then they are free to get one themselves, as it is specialty hardware at this point which don't belong in an all-round workstation case.

In comparison, 3.5" SATA bays and full length full width PCI slots have much more meaningful computing usages that are crippled if done externally. I would rather Apple focus on dealing with these this time, which they didn't with the trashcan.
 
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AidenShaw

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Feb 8, 2003
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AidenShaw said:
Then opt out of the slim optical, and put 16 NVMe SSD blades in the 5.25" bay.

Sounds like thermal hell to me. Are we going back to huge finned heatspreaders and whooshy big fans, too? Going to be a struggle to fit all that into an optical drive bay.
What I meant was "buy the Apple designed 5.25 bay module that's full of NVMe SSDs", not a hack job. Something that's designed to connect to the backplane and to be cooled properly by the system fans.

What other goodies could Apple offer for that bay? How about an 8 bay 2.5 hot swap SAS/SATA cage?

1421889202098797310[1].jpg


http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=192
 
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JMacHack

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Mar 16, 2017
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It'll take up a lot of space and it's something that barely anyone would use. I want a 2tb hard drive too but I don't expect that to come as standard. I'm perfectly fine with the machine being a 'lowest common denominator' product that allows me to add peripherals as required.
I disagree, we're likely looking at a $4,000-$8,000 machine. Something that's not inherently "lowest common denominator".