do you trust a jb iphone?

m4rk0

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 28, 2008
90
1
hello.

apologizes if the question sounds awkward but i am quite thoughtful about it - question is: do you think there's ANY chance that a jb iphone is vulnerable to attacks or even could transmit user's data over the network from some nasty applications?
i am running 1password pro to store all of my passwords and i am kind of paranoid about the chance of my data being caught, whichever the data is.

i'd like to have response from some iphone expert here..

thanks.
 

dhlizard

macrumors G4
Mar 16, 2009
10,214
119
The Jailbreak Community
hello.

apologizes if the question sounds awkward but i am quite thoughtful about it - question is: do you think there's ANY chance that a jb iphone is vulnerable to attacks or even could transmit user's data over the network from some nasty applications?
i am running 1password pro to store all of my passwords and i am kind of paranoid about the chance of my data being caught, whichever the data is.

i'd like to have response from some iphone expert here..

thanks.
Well Apple patched the text message venerability with fw 3.1 and you can change your OpenSSH root and mobile passwords, so......

What are you hiding ? :rolleyes: Sorry, had to !

If I believed my iPhone was not secure, I wouldn't use it for all the data transmission that I do.
 

m4rk0

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 28, 2008
90
1
How obvious of an answer are you looking for? If you have installed SSH and you have not changed the root password, then, obviously, yes, the chance is very high.
well, i didn't know anything about the open ssh thing; i guess it has been automatically installed by cyndia as i can see "open ssh" in the expert mode of the installed packages. i am googling for the password chance.


Well Apple patched the text message venerability with fw 3.1 and you can change your OpenSSH root and mobile passwords, so......
which "mobile passwords" are you referring to..?
 

gigapocket1

macrumors 68000
Mar 15, 2009
1,721
1,037
Yeah I trust it to an extent.. The only thing I get nervous about is that sometimes I think it may attach the wrong picture in a picture message or something like that.. U know like my photo album gets corupted and although it shows me a certain pic it sends another pic...
 

dhlizard

macrumors G4
Mar 16, 2009
10,214
119
The Jailbreak Community
well, i didn't know anything about the open ssh thing; i guess it has been automatically installed by cyndia as i can see "open ssh" in the expert mode of the installed packages. i am googling for the password chance.



which "mobile passwords" are you referring to..?
There are two passwords in SSH, the root and the mobile. You use mobile terminal. The default password is alpine

Remember whoever you ssh in as, there are two users and two passwords to change.

Enter "su root" then hit enter key, run "passwd" to change root's password, type password twice and then "passwd mobile" to change mobile's, type password twice.

Well you asked and I can tell you don't understand any of this. Google is your friend. And here !
 

m4rk0

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 28, 2008
90
1
There are two passwords in SSH, the root and the mobile. You use mobile terminal. The default password is alpine

Remember whoever you ssh in as, there are two users and two passwords to change.

Enter "su root" then hit enter key, run "passwd" to change root's password, type password twice and then "passwd mobile" to change mobile's, type password twice.

Well you asked and I can tell you don't understand any of this. Google is your friend. And here !
yeah, i don't have a deep knowledge of this stuff; that's why i was asking. thanks for the input, i am going to do it now.
it's just that i feel paranoid someone might fill cyndia or other applications with malign software, "backdoors" or whatever :confused:
 

dhlizard

macrumors G4
Mar 16, 2009
10,214
119
The Jailbreak Community
yeah, i don't have a deep knowledge of this stuff; that's why i was asking. thanks for the input, i am going to do it now.
it's just that i feel paranoid someone might fill cyndia or other applications with malign software, "backdoors" or whatever :confused:
Cydia is basically the same thing as mobile safari. It searches the repos for items posted on those sites. Some of the packages are poorly done and some can & will crash your phone.

It is best to do some research before installing something new, I always fire up Google first.

If Cydia is not open then it cannot get fed malware, just as if your browser is closed, not open, no viruses or malware.

SSH and text were the 2 biggest threats and both can be eliminated. Apple has already fixed the text venerability in 3.0.1 fw.
 

MinuteDreamer

macrumors newbie
Oct 30, 2009
12
0
apologizes if the question sounds awkward but i am quite thoughtful about it - question is: do you think there's ANY chance that a jb iphone is vulnerable to attacks or even could transmit user's data over the network from some nasty applications?
i am running 1password pro to store all of my passwords and i am kind of paranoid about the chance of my data being caught, whichever the data is.

i'd like to have response from some iphone expert here..
I'm no iPhone expert, but I've taught computer security at a grad level before.

As far as I can tell, jailbreaking can make your phone more vulnerable to attack.

The ssh attack that's been going around recently, it's a really simple attack - it just assumes that the owner never changed their default root password. That's really just stupidity on the part of the owner.

*However*, in the future, someone could find a vulnerability in the SSH server on the iPhone, and exploit that to do something nasty with your data. (Probably not likely though.) This is not to say that the iPhone is secure if you don't jailbreak it. I'm sure there are services in the iPhone with uncovered vulnerabilities too. (Didn't they discover some SMS vulnerability or something a while back?)

On the iPhone, the general security model seems to be what they call a "chroot jail" (from where the term "jailbreaking" comes from). Normal apps on the iPhone are installed in a way that lets them only see a tiny part of the filesystem on the iPhone. So it won't let you look at any other application's data. Jailbreaking is all about getting away from this limitation.

So, yes, it is entirely possible if you install a nasty app through cydia, it will go ahead and do something mean, like going through your 1password information.

Of course, there's plenty of intrusive stuff apps can do too, and be approved by the Apple store. Like, harvesting information from all the contacts on your phone, for instance.

But going through a jailbroken phone is not your only means of attack. It might even be easier to just attack your computer directly. If you could be convinced to run an executable file (like, say, blackra1n) the author of the executable file could just take control of your computer. If they were after your 1password information, I bet there might be a way of digging it out of iTunes backup. Or maybe just install a keylogger on your computer to grab all your passwords.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want ;)
 

Rob Mclovin

macrumors 6502
Jul 24, 2008
367
0
If i never installed Open SSH or even went in with WINSCP, do i still have to chnge the password!?
 

m4rk0

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 28, 2008
90
1
Cydia is basically the same thing as mobile safari. It searches the repos for items posted on those sites. Some of the packages are poorly done and some can & will crash your phone.

It is best to do some research before installing something new, I always fire up Google first.

If Cydia is not open then it cannot get fed malware, just as if your browser is closed, not open, no viruses or malware.

SSH and text were the 2 biggest threats and both can be eliminated. Apple has already fixed the text venerability in 3.0.1 fw.
ok, got it, thanks.

I'm no iPhone expert, but I've taught computer security at a grad level before.

As far as I can tell, jailbreaking can make your phone more vulnerable to attack.

The ssh attack that's been going around recently, it's a really simple attack - it just assumes that the owner never changed their default root password. That's really just stupidity on the part of the owner.

*However*, in the future, someone could find a vulnerability in the SSH server on the iPhone, and exploit that to do something nasty with your data. (Probably not likely though.) This is not to say that the iPhone is secure if you don't jailbreak it. I'm sure there are services in the iPhone with uncovered vulnerabilities too. (Didn't they discover some SMS vulnerability or something a while back?)

On the iPhone, the general security model seems to be what they call a "chroot jail" (from where the term "jailbreaking" comes from). Normal apps on the iPhone are installed in a way that lets them only see a tiny part of the filesystem on the iPhone. So it won't let you look at any other application's data. Jailbreaking is all about getting away from this limitation.

So, yes, it is entirely possible if you install a nasty app through cydia, it will go ahead and do something mean, like going through your 1password information.

Of course, there's plenty of intrusive stuff apps can do too, and be approved by the Apple store. Like, harvesting information from all the contacts on your phone, for instance.

But going through a jailbroken phone is not your only means of attack. It might even be easier to just attack your computer directly. If you could be convinced to run an executable file (like, say, blackra1n) the author of the executable file could just take control of your computer. If they were after your 1password information, I bet there might be a way of digging it out of iTunes backup. Or maybe just install a keylogger on your computer to grab all your passwords.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want ;)
that's the answer i wanted but i don't want it to happen :D
well, the 1password case was just an example, after all the passwords stored in my 1password are not complete, but yeah i got the point.

if i recall correctly, the iphone backups are encrypted, aren't them?

security is not easy to accomplish, i take standard precautions trying to avoid what's obvious and what's risky, that's why i wanted to ask how secure a jb iphone is.

just don't install openSSH so no one can SSH into the phone?
If i never installed Open SSH or even went in with WINSCP, do i still have to chnge the password!?
i second these questions, i have the same question.

i guess it has been automatically installed by cyndia as i can see "open ssh" in the expert mode of the installed packages.
my bad, it's open ssl which is installed by cydia.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,776
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
if i recall correctly, the iphone backups are encrypted, aren't them?
I think you have to opt into this, don't you?

So now when you J/B today, is SSH automatically installed/enabled? I noticed that my unlocked iPhone, which does not have Icy or Cydia installed, does not appear to have SSH running either.
 

iPhone 62S

macrumors 6502a
Aug 18, 2009
993
0
Even with SSH on and the default password set, the only way someone will get into your phone is if you connect to their WiFi and they happen to be continuously attempting to get into iPhones via SSH... Plus, it's common sense not to connect to random networks anyway (if the page is not encrypted, someone on the network could see every page you visit).

I'd say you have no reason to worry really.

EDIT: BTW, I jailbroke with blackra1n and installed Cydia but OpenSSH isn't installed.
 

MinuteDreamer

macrumors newbie
Oct 30, 2009
12
0
if i recall correctly, the iphone backups are encrypted, aren't them?
Not by default. Also, I think the encryption scheme is symmetric since you can't use some sort of PKI infrastructure, so it's not like encryption would be an end-all solution if they have control of your computer.
 

thelatinist

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2009
5,934
49
Connecticut, USA
I just use common-sense precautions: only download from repositories I trust, don't install cracked software, etc. I've changed my ssh password...but I keep ssh off most of the time anyway. And I only use secure wifi networks that I trust. Pretty straightforward.
 

MinuteDreamer

macrumors newbie
Oct 30, 2009
12
0
I just use common-sense precautions: only download from repositories I trust, don't install cracked software, etc.
I believe cracked apps are actually relatively safe to install, at least, compared to Cydia jailbroken apps.

The iPhone has some built-in safeguards to prevent apps from running too far amuck. These are things like the chroot jail I mentioned earlier.

Cydia apps are often installed in such a way that completely bypasses these mechanisms. Without lifting these kinds of restrictions, it would be impossible to do things like what SBSettings, Backgrounder or Orbits does. What makes Cydia apps useful, also makes them a significantly higher risk to install.

Cracked apps, on the other hand, don't need to have these restrictions bypassed, and so, are installed with the OS safeguards in place. I believe it is not significantly more dangerous to install a cracked app, than it is to install a regular app from the app store.

So, while there are many good reasons to not install cracked apps, I do not believe that security is one of those reasons.
 

thelatinist

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2009
5,934
49
Connecticut, USA
Unless someone stuck a Trojan in that cracked app.
Precisely. We were talking about security. It is entirely possible for someone who cracks an app intentionally to open up a security hole in your phone. I minimize risk for Cydia apps by installing only from trusted repositories, and I minimize risk for App Store apps by only installing the original App-store version.
 

MinuteDreamer

macrumors newbie
Oct 30, 2009
12
0
Unless someone stuck a Trojan in that cracked app.
First of all, a terminology clarification: A trojan is a program that hides its malicious intent by masquerading as an innocuous program. You wouldn't "stick a trojan in a cracked app", the cracked app would be the trojan.

Second of all, what you're suggesting is *not* possible, at least, no more so than any app that you could get from Apple's app store.

Because cracked apps are installed with the regular OS safeguards in place, you would have to bypass those safeguards before you could use your "trojan" to infect the rest of your iPhone. This, as it turns out, is very hard to do. That's why jailbreaking apps like blackra1n and redsn0w are so unique.

From this, I believe that installing cracked apps is not significantly more dangerous than installing apps from the Apple store. Installing Cydia jailbroken apps, on the other hand, is potentially much more dangerous because these programs are installed without the regular OS safeguards in place.
 

ViViDboarder

macrumors 68040
Jun 25, 2008
3,446
0
USA
Here, how about a simple answer?

The current threats are all resulting from people leaving their SSH passwords open. If you change your password you'll be fine. SSH is very often used for secure shell interfaces on all kinds of machines in different environments. iPhones are not a significant enough reason to be targeted.

As for apps downloaded in Cyda, yes, it is POSSIBLE that someone could include capabilities in the app that invade your privacy. This is just as likely as downloading an app on your desktop computer that does the same thing.

I wouldn't trust cracked apps either. Also, you'll hear about issues with apps and security here if they do exist. Many jailbroken apps are OpenSource so people can be pretty confident that there are no major issues. (If there was, anyone looking over the source code would have found the "steal passwords here" line. :p)

Long story short... Jailbreaking is fine. If you're a novice, don't install OpenSSH. Just use DiskAid or iFunbox to access your filesystem instead of WinSCP or Fugu with OpenSSH.

First of all, a terminology clarification: A trojan is a program that hides its malicious intent by masquerading as an innocuous program. You wouldn't "stick a trojan in a cracked app", the cracked app would be the trojan.

Second of all, what you're suggesting is *not* possible, at least, no more so than any app that you could get from Apple's app store.

Because cracked apps are installed with the regular OS safeguards in place, you would have to bypass those safeguards before you could use your "trojan" to infect the rest of your iPhone. This, as it turns out, is very hard to do. That's why jailbreaking apps like blackra1n and redsn0w are so unique.

From this, I believe that installing cracked apps is not significantly more dangerous than installing apps from the Apple store. Installing Cydia jailbroken apps, on the other hand, is potentially much more dangerous because these programs are installed without the regular OS safeguards in place.
Except that the trojan could be it's own app bundled with the cracked app... This would not be restricted. Either way... You are not "less" safe using Cydia apps. You just have to be smart like you do with any other computer.

Read reviews (which is easier with Cydia apps because they come from one known source) to know if vulnerabilities have been spotted.
 

MinuteDreamer

macrumors newbie
Oct 30, 2009
12
0
Except that the trojan could be it's own app bundled with the cracked app... This would not be restricted. Either way... You are not "less" safe using Cydia apps. You just have to be smart like you do with any other computer.

Read reviews (which is easier with Cydia apps because they come from one known source) to know if vulnerabilities have been spotted.
Man o man, if you were one of my students, you would certainly have a "see me after class" note :)

Okay, let me try and explain this one last time. Cydia installed jailbroken apps, and other installers such as the app store, rock, icy and installous run in privileged, unjailed mode. These apps have the power to install other apps. Cydia, Rock and Icy will go ahead and install privileged apps that could potentially do something nasty to your iphone.

The app store, and installous on the other hand, are installers meant for installing regular apps. (Installous is more meant for cracked apps.) If you install a cracked app with installous, installous will only install the cracked app in unpriveleged chroot-jailed mode. It does not install unprivileged unjailed apps. These cracked apps will not have sufficient privileges to install other apps, or infect the rest of your iphone. So in that sense, it is as "safe" as an app-store app.

The only way for a cracked app to infect the rest of your iphone is to somehow break free out of the jail that the iphone OS enforces. This, as it turns out, is very challenging to do. That's why we make such a big fuss about jailbreaking.
 

ViViDboarder

macrumors 68040
Jun 25, 2008
3,446
0
USA
Man o man, if you were one of my students, you would certainly have a "see me after class" note :)

Okay, let me try and explain this one last time. Cydia installed jailbroken apps, and other installers such as the app store, rock, icy and installous run in privileged, unjailed mode. These apps have the power to install other apps. Cydia, Rock and Icy will go ahead and install privileged apps that could potentially do something nasty to your iphone.

The app store, and installous on the other hand, are installers meant for installing regular apps. (Installous is more meant for cracked apps.) If you install a cracked app with installous, installous will only install the cracked app in unpriveleged chroot-jailed mode. It does not install unprivileged unjailed apps. These cracked apps will not have sufficient privileges to install other apps, or infect the rest of your iphone. So in that sense, it is as "safe" as an app-store app.

The only way for a cracked app to infect the rest of your iphone is to somehow break free out of the jail that the iphone OS enforces. This, as it turns out, is very challenging to do. That's why we make such a big fuss about jailbreaking.
I guess I don't know how Installous works as I've never installed cracked apps. It seems like you're saying that it takes the real IPA's or something and installs them rather than having someone already crack the app and turn it into a .deb file? I was more referring to the later because it'd be very easy to bundle up a trojan with the .deb of any app not downloaded from it's original repo. Someone would only have to download a legitimate app, and compile a .deb with a trojan included. This is why you're safe on cydia sticking to the main repos.
 
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