Do you use antivirus software?

Discussion in 'macOS Mojave (10.14)' started by donawalt, Nov 29, 2018.

?

Do you use anti-virus software on your Mac desktop/laptop?

  1. Yes

    23.7%
  2. No

    76.3%
  1. Martyimac, Feb 10, 2019 at 1:39 PM
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019 at 1:59 PM

    Martyimac macrumors 68000

    Martyimac

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    #201
    The exact same thing could be said about Windows AV products. Folks could justify not using AV products on their windows machine also, using your exact statement. Ah, well indeed.
     
  2. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #202
    Yes, as discussed previously: there is no absolute security. And correct, if you are striving for 100% security don't use a computer.

    That said: for mentioned security issue - was there already an exploit out there or a virus exploiting the hole? And: if so (or better even, if not so) was there any AV software in existance that could detect and/or protect from this hypothetical virus and/or exploit?
     
  3. Martyimac macrumors 68000

    Martyimac

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    #203
    Hypothetically, no. Point?
     
  4. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #204
    Yes, that is the key. I disagree with the false claim that users must have antivirus/anti-malware apps installed in order to keep a Mac safe from malware. I also disagree with the claim that you should never install such an app. My claim has always been that you can use such apps, but you don't need to use them to keep a Mac malware-free, as long as you practice safe computing, which you should do with or without such apps.
    Antivirus or anti/malware apps will not protect you against some future zero-day threat, but practicing safe computing will.
    As has been repeated countless times, Macs can get viruses and other forms of malware. They do get other forms of malware, but they don't get viruses, because none have ever existed in the wild that run on macOS/OS X.
    If you run an antivirus app in the absence of safe computing practices, you say that it gives you peace of mind, but what you're really getting is a false sense of security that can bite you at some point in the future. If you really want to do people a service, teach and promote safe computing, with or without your recommendation for anti-malware apps.
    That article does not refer to a virus, but a Trojan, which cannot infect your Mac unless you first install it. In addition, not every antivirus/anti-malware app will detect this Trojan, so some people who follow the mantra of installing an antivirus app instead of practicing safe computing will be disappointed when they find their Macs infected because they unwittingly installed a Trojan and their particular AV app didn't detect it.
     
  5. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #205
    Where is the point in using AV that neither detects nor protects but instead introduced new threat vectors?
    Essentially an increase of attack surface while at the same time gives a bogus impression of security. That is by definition the exact opposite of what you want to achieve
     
  6. Martyimac macrumors 68000

    Martyimac

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    #206
    This question has been answered already. Now we are just going in circles.
     
  7. Panthera Tigris Altaica macrumors member

    Panthera Tigris Altaica

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    #207
    Of _course_ this applies to Windows malware. It's called a zero-day, and it happens with depressing frequency, and unless and until new antimalware detection libraries come out with the ability to see it, existing Windows antimalware can do little or nothing to stop it.

    What existing Windows antimalware can do is to stop the 99+% of existing malware which targets Windows. As there is very little Mac malware, including a big fat zero Mac malware in certain categories, using Mac antimalware is simply not necessary.

    You can, of course, do as you like, and install Mac antimalware. I don't care what you do on your system. What I find amusing is how FUDsters insist that _others_ install Mac antimalware. I really have to wonder why they care about what I do on _my_ machines.
     
  8. SoCalReviews, Feb 10, 2019 at 5:10 PM
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019 at 5:35 PM

    SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    #208
    These questions are like a dog chasing it's own tail while looking for something to play with.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 10, 2019 at 5:23 PM ---
    You weren't part of the Mac AV debate before but many of these questions were hashed and rehashed for a long time before you entered into the conversation. At one point it devolved into a debate over semantics about what a virus is or isn't, the differences between malware, trojans, viruses... etc.. It's been the same ole questions and answers in these threads for a while. You can go back and re-read this and other related threads to gain a better perspective.
     
  9. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

    Joined:
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    #209
    That’s like saying the difference between tractors, submarines, airplanes, buses, bicycles and cars is just semantics. They’re all submarines, right? :rolleyes:
     
  10. SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 31, 2012
    #210
    I'll take some percentage of protection on my Mac over no percentage of protection. You can go naked and run with the the sheep if you want. No one is forcing you to use Mac AV/security software.
     
  11. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #211
    Correction: You take the bogus impression of increased protection with actually decreased protection vs system level protection. Notice the difference.
     
  12. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #212
    Practicing safe computing provides a much higher level of protection than running any A/V app, some of which can actually increase your risk of infection. You're promoting a lower level of protection than those of us who know better.
     
  13. SoCalReviews, Feb 11, 2019 at 8:54 AM
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 8:59 AM

    SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    #213
    An even better strategy is to practice safe computing AND use Mac AV/Security software. ;)
    --- Post Merged, Feb 11, 2019 at 8:58 AM ---
    My Mac AV software (free) has been blocking infected files and bad web links for years. I'm not sure how you equate that to decreased protection... and YES I want the potential Windows infections blocked as well.
     
  14. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    #214
    That depends on which AV app you use. For most, adding an AV app to safe computing adds no additional protection, but it doesn't hurt (except perhaps performance). For a few AV apps, they actually decrease protection and increase risk.
    I've been successfully avoiding infected files for 10+ years with no AV software, by just using a bit of common sense. My adblockers take care of unwanted stuff on websites.
     
  15. daveak macrumors 6502

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    Jun 28, 2009
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    Durham, UK
    #215
    My experience from when they first released on mac is different, it crippled the system so I removed it. I'm also willing to put good money on the virus it picked up in the email being a windows virus.
     
  16. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #216
    Checking the false positive rate vs the actual threat detection rate is revealing. Just check it. Plus AV - in particular when running in the background at all times scanning - opens an additional attack vector.

    Combined this gives you - evidenced by your argumentation - a sense of protection that is not actually there.
     
  17. SoCalReviews, Feb 11, 2019 at 11:02 AM
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 11:13 AM

    SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    #217
    These things you're talking about apply to Windows systems as well and many people run Windows without AV software for years without getting any infections. So what's your point? If you don't want to use Mac security software then don't.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 11, 2019 at 11:07 AM ---
    Those points are true also for Windows systems... false positives occur, addition attack vectors are exposed (as happened in recent past with built in Windows Defender being used as a method of attack) and it can give you a false sense of protection... yes... true for Windows as well... and many people run Windows without security software... they use common sense and don't seem to get infections. Go ahead and don't use Mac security software if that makes you feel safer.
     
  18. trillionaire macrumors member

    trillionaire

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Canada
    #218
    I do. I've dealt with viruses before and they can be a pain to get rid of. You may think you don't need it until you do, but by then it's too late. Problematic viruses are really rare, but I prefer not to risk it.
     
  19. Blue Hawk macrumors regular

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    Dec 18, 2017
    Location:
    Germany
    #219
    In my opinion: If you do not watch porn on your Mac (use your iPad for that xD ), looking for cracked software or opening all mail attachments, nothing should happen. On Windows I always had Windows Defender bc AV software like Kaspersky are really tracking what you are doing.

    What I don’t understand is why my firewall was disabled at first. But it’s enough in my opinion.
     
  20. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #220
    Point being: Installing AVs actually increases the attack surface and therefore the likelihood you catch anything.

    I appreciate you trying to be responsible, but actually you achieve the opposite.

    Now that said, there are two points when it comes to Mac AV:

    I'd avoid those that hook themselves into the system and permanently scan in the background; for those impose additional threats because in order to install themselves they need to circumvent system security and increase the overall attack surface. Not good.

    On the other hand, there is nothing to argue with AVs scanning on demand (e.g. the malwarebytes version not permanently running in the background).
     
  21. SoCalReviews, Feb 11, 2019 at 11:37 AM
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 11:47 AM

    SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    #221
    I don't understand that either... on new Macs the MacOS firewall is disabled by default? o_O
    --- Post Merged, Feb 11, 2019 at 11:44 AM ---
    Using a USB drive, downloading email, connecting to the internet, using a web browser and installing an app on your Mac that accesses the internet increases the attack surface too... If you want perfect Mac security just leave your Mac powered off.
     
  22. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #222
    But I do have the security I need. You, however, seem to see a requirement for AVs. Nothing wrong with that - except AVs at this stage are not exactly helping there.

    But ok, its up to anybody to do what he/she sees fit. Just trying to help in pointing some things out in connection with AV software in particular on the Mac
     
  23. SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 31, 2012
    #223
    I sleep well at night knowing I have Mac security software installed. You on the other hand would probably stay awake late at night... paranoid and staring at the ceiling if you had Mac security software installed... So for peace of mind you probably shouldn't install any on your Macs... and at least then you won't need to worry about those added attack vectors that you were referring to.
     
  24. Loki.Mephisto macrumors 6502

    Loki.Mephisto

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    #224
    You feel so threatened and have strong desire to install AV even though they essentially do nothing. And you thing I am paranoid? In case you didn't notice, its YOU who cannot sleep apparently w/o AV snakeoil.

    Do you realise how screwed up your line of argument is? Thank you for pointing out how irrational you are. No further need to discuss, just futile
     
  25. SoCalReviews macrumors 6502a

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    #225
    If it's AV snakeoil at least it's free AV snakeoil. :D
     

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