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Does anyone care about Audio Quality ?
- Thread starter TheRealAlex
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And yet somehow the quality of the sound and the quality of my music are perfectly satisfactory to me.
A lot of times, I’m happy with what I hear in my head.
Omnifone was Pono’s download store partner. It was bought by Apple and shut down with no notice. Not that Pono was setting the world ablaze, but ironic that Apple dealt it the death blow.
- 22 December 2010: Sony launches Q Music Unlimited cloud music service powered by Omnifone in the UK and Ireland
- 22 January 2011: Sony launches Q Music Unlimited cloud music service powered by Omnifone in France, Germany, Italy and Spain
- 17 February 2011: Sony launches Q Music Unlimited cloud music service powered by Omnifone in the US, Australia and New Zealand
- 25 August 2011: RIM launches BBM Music social music service in beta – powered by Omnifone in the US, Canada and the UK
- 13 December 2011: rara.com launches across Europe and the USA – powered by Omnifone
- 14 December 2011: rara.com launches across New Zealand – powered by Omnifone
- 4 May 2016: Omnifone Group Ltd and Omifone Ltd placed in Administration (bankruptcy)
- 7 November 2016: Apple hired 16 employees and purchased select technology from Omnifone, player in streaming music services.
Buying the dragonfly soon. Upgrading from an Echo Audiofire 2. And going from Grado SR225s to 325es. Excited!
I'm surprised not to read more discussion between home versus portable set ups. I listen to a lot of music, podcasts, and audiobooks (and movies and tv shows and concerts), and my set up changes depending on how I'm listening. I have a pair of Sennheiser HD700s I use with a Chord Mojo DAC/amp on a Mac mini while I'm at my desk, and I know I can use the Mojo with my iPhone (7 Plus) via the Lightning dongle, but with my phone I usually use either some Beats X or Anker Liberty+ earphones. I mean, sure, my Shures sound WAY better, but I usually listen on my phone while I'm out and about or traveling or something, and then for me it becomes deciding between sound quality and convenience/portability. I love the sound of my HD700s, but I've never really thought about trying to listen to them away from my desk.
And RumorConsumer -- I've heard good things about 325s, but if you get a chance to try out Beyerdynamic DT880s and Sennheiser HD700s, I'd encourage you to do so. Also, there's a site called Massdrop that often has great deals on headphones.
And RumorConsumer -- I've heard good things about 325s, but if you get a chance to try out Beyerdynamic DT880s and Sennheiser HD700s, I'd encourage you to do so. Also, there's a site called Massdrop that often has great deals on headphones.
Most of the audio quality will be defined by the output device, whether it’s headphones or speakers. Bluetooth throws in another lossy compression in the works and to me the convenience over wired headphones is minimal when you have to remember to charge your headphones too.
DAC in the iPhone is going to be good enough for most portable uses and likewise the quality of audio from streaming services is a lot better than the old 128 kbps MP3s back in the day.
I’m not sold on the AirPods, any earbud that is not in-ear is going to be a severe compromise in sound quality. I use the non-in ear type only when working out because you don’t hear your body as there is less of a seal in your ears.
DAC in the iPhone is going to be good enough for most portable uses and likewise the quality of audio from streaming services is a lot better than the old 128 kbps MP3s back in the day.
I’m not sold on the AirPods, any earbud that is not in-ear is going to be a severe compromise in sound quality. I use the non-in ear type only when working out because you don’t hear your body as there is less of a seal in your ears.
Here’s where I am at
Home Music: Arcam A19 integrated stereo amp + arcam irdac II + paradigm prestige bookshelf. Audio source is just a Mac with Apple Music connected to the dac over usb. I usually stream but I have some flac and alac for particularly special records.
Home Podcast: Speakers in my iPad
Vinyl: same stereo setup (but no dac obviously) pro-ject rpm 1 carbon + sumiko pearl cartridge. The amp has an MM phono stage so I just connect it directly to the A19.
Music/Podcasts on the train to work: AirPods
Music/Poscasts at work: AirPods
Music on the plane: BeoPlay H6 second gen w dragon fly red to an iPhone, using downloaded Apple Music files
Gym: EarPods (Lightning)
As you can see, my setup and the amount I care about audio quality varies a lot depending on the media type & setting. Sometimes it just doesn’t matter as much to me.
I don’t necessarily even want full isolation on the way to / at work. The convenience of the AirPods are unbeatable in those cases.
I sweat a lot at the gym, so the disposability of EarPods is key there. Even lost a pair there once.
Anyone else wanna share their setup / tips?
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also! Plus one to the Chord Mojo. Great piece of kit.
I’m quite forgiving usually of on board audio but really the onboard DAC sucks, and the lightning to 1/8th adapter doesn’t help at all.
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You put something on your airpods?
I don’t think that analogy really works. Through normal Apple headphones I doubt the average user could hear the difference between even a 128 Kbps MP3 and a lossless format. I’ve taken double blind tests and I certainly can’t.
However, I think nearly everyone can to distinguish McDonald’s beef from good quality beef.
This might be interesting:
https://kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm
TL;DR the DAC in the lightning to 3.5 adaptor is as good as more expensive ‘audiophile’ DACs.
Besides, the point is if you want to enjoy music, use a proper HiFi with towers. iPhones are phones. Bluetooth is for convenience. It’s all compromises.
I don’t? I’m not sure I follow the question here.
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Totally agreed on this. It’s all about your situational needs. Nothing will beat my home stereo, but I don’t need my home stereo on the go so AirPods and their ilk are fine for me in those situations.
I will say, however, that apple’s adapter does struggle to power some larger headphones. It’s not like it it’s lacking seriously in audio quality, but doesn’t draw enough power for the thirstiest pieces of kit (though I’ll also say that you probably don’t need that kind of kit if you’re using an iPhone, anyway)
"It’s all about your situational needs. Nothing will beat my home stereo, but I don’t need my home stereo on the go so AirPods and their ilk are fine for me in those situations."
Yeah, this is exactly what I was getting out (though you got there much more succinctly). I don't exactly have a home stereo, and I think the Mojo will work with my iPhone, but I've never really tried because that's just not how I listen. Even if I travel, like going away for a week, I'm more likely to just grab my Beats X or Ankers, because it may not be as good as home but I'm not going to try to listen to my HD700s in public.
But yes, will totally agree the Mojo is a terrific piece of kit. I liked the Dragonfly (both red and blue) as well, but the Mojo is phenomenal.
To answer the thread's question, I think a lot of people care about audio quality; that's why there's a pretty wide market that supports multiple smart speakers, open and closed headphones, IEMs and bluetooth earbuds, noise-cancelling headsets, et al. But you're most likely not going to drive the best of those solely from an iPhone. I once used an iPhone with Senn HD800s, but the story had the HDVD800 amp (or whatever it is, I don't remember) between them, and that was the only reason it actually worked well/sounded good.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was getting out (though you got there much more succinctly). I don't exactly have a home stereo, and I think the Mojo will work with my iPhone, but I've never really tried because that's just not how I listen. Even if I travel, like going away for a week, I'm more likely to just grab my Beats X or Ankers, because it may not be as good as home but I'm not going to try to listen to my HD700s in public.
But yes, will totally agree the Mojo is a terrific piece of kit. I liked the Dragonfly (both red and blue) as well, but the Mojo is phenomenal.
To answer the thread's question, I think a lot of people care about audio quality; that's why there's a pretty wide market that supports multiple smart speakers, open and closed headphones, IEMs and bluetooth earbuds, noise-cancelling headsets, et al. But you're most likely not going to drive the best of those solely from an iPhone. I once used an iPhone with Senn HD800s, but the story had the HDVD800 amp (or whatever it is, I don't remember) between them, and that was the only reason it actually worked well/sounded good.
I think being concern about audio quality from a mobile device is a little bit silly.
High end wired headphone are generally high impedance so the iPhone and other mobile devices are underpowered for them. The poster above me mentioned the HD700's which are nice set of Sennheiser open back headphones however are 150 ohms.
So your "high end" options are going to be limited to low impedance headphones if you want the wired options. And while their are some good options out there you'll always feel limited. I used a set of T51i's which are 32 ohm on ear headphones which I felt were affordable for the quality. However I prefer over the ear so I got rid of them.
Also the source of the music needs be considered specifically when referencing the iPhone. If you are listening to iTunes and Apple Music just stop worrying about it get a pair of bluetooth AAC headphones. QC35's, Studio3's or 1000Mxm2's (there are others but I don't have experience with them) are all very good options. These headphones can decode the native file so you won't have loss in quality by using bluetooth.
Also the beauty of bluetooth headphones is they can be completely built around their intended purpose. They are self powered so driver size and impedance are only limited by the manufacturer. And in my experience when listening to Apple Music I can't find wired headphones that CLEARLY outperforms the 3 above mentioned headphones.
When it comes to lossless there are wired options like the T51i's I mentioned earlier but I feel you'll start seeing diminishing returns on investments because you are looking for a headphone from a manufacturer that has limits to work around and intending the product specifically for a low powered devices and not hi fi.
High end wired headphone are generally high impedance so the iPhone and other mobile devices are underpowered for them. The poster above me mentioned the HD700's which are nice set of Sennheiser open back headphones however are 150 ohms.
So your "high end" options are going to be limited to low impedance headphones if you want the wired options. And while their are some good options out there you'll always feel limited. I used a set of T51i's which are 32 ohm on ear headphones which I felt were affordable for the quality. However I prefer over the ear so I got rid of them.
Also the source of the music needs be considered specifically when referencing the iPhone. If you are listening to iTunes and Apple Music just stop worrying about it get a pair of bluetooth AAC headphones. QC35's, Studio3's or 1000Mxm2's (there are others but I don't have experience with them) are all very good options. These headphones can decode the native file so you won't have loss in quality by using bluetooth.
Also the beauty of bluetooth headphones is they can be completely built around their intended purpose. They are self powered so driver size and impedance are only limited by the manufacturer. And in my experience when listening to Apple Music I can't find wired headphones that CLEARLY outperforms the 3 above mentioned headphones.
When it comes to lossless there are wired options like the T51i's I mentioned earlier but I feel you'll start seeing diminishing returns on investments because you are looking for a headphone from a manufacturer that has limits to work around and intending the product specifically for a low powered devices and not hi fi.
I'm doing this comparison in case anybody is interested:
2 sub $500 headphones and 5 DACs
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...0-x-5-usb-dac-shootout.2131217/#post-26334606
2 sub $500 headphones and 5 DACs
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...0-x-5-usb-dac-shootout.2131217/#post-26334606
At this point in my life I am very happy with my X and the latest Bose QCII headphones. For mowing the lawn and fish off shore it is more than what could expect. For those who seek the very best or sound quality . . . Do as you wish.
Buy 2 if you see them. They sound amazing and do exactly what they advertise - feed pristine audio with no interruption, while mobile, to any set of speakers.
I had to make an account to get in on this thread.
I think many people care about audio quality. Maybe 50% of consumers.
But amongst that group, ignorance runs amok.
To understand sound, music, the recording of it, the transfer of it, and the playback of it, you need to go to professional studios and listen to the people and gear within. You need to understand audio signal chain. Garbage in = Garbage out. You need to understand resolution and master quality. Then you can get into all the degradations done to that product before it gets to the consumer.
Doctors, scientists, programmers, -- all smart -- but they focus on parts, subsets of sound, taken out of context or ignoring the entire distribution process. We don't debate the best telephone voice or most amazing 8k downsample. We debate music because it moves humans like no other force on the planet.
I believe that we are suffering from 30+ years of marketing masquerading as science. The redbook (CD) format was a compromise from day one. It was the best their 1978 minds could imagine the market of 1983 could bear.
They were right. 24bit audio chips were cost-prohibitive until the late 90's. (Now they are extremely affordable but most manufacturers still stick with the cheaper 16bit chips.) With pseudo-science claiming 'no one can hear the difference' they continue their crusade against quality.
By the mid-90's production studios were going 24bit. All the big labels were going to 24bit as their master format. It was believed that the consumer would go 24bit soon thereafter. Several consumer formats appeared. Then the internet happened.
I was there. Holy crap can we get audio through this thing? No way, not in real time. Not even stereo 16bit redbook. Need to compress. A lot. Like throw out over 50% of the audio signal. Better cover that up! Mission accomplished.
I remember being amazing by an mp3. Even a low-res one. To think they got a CD to go through the network haha I remember thinking stuff like that! Then I'd fire up Pro Tools and work in 24bit and think... hmmm.... this project is going to really need to be reduced multiple times to get to listeners now. Damn. But oh how cool, let me fill up my iPod with a few hundred mp3's instead of 2 hi-res albums.
So almost 20 years later... most of us are trying to jam out to wireless speakers throwing sound all over all directions out of phase, pushing lossy files with even more bluetooth loss, and people don't know who to believe. Just give me my music! You think you are getting old (you are) and that's why things don't sound as good as they used to. But you've been given less and less as the digital decades play out.
I do plenty of modern streaming. It's convenience only. Sound quality is still crap. I also play records through a nice affordable rig in the front room. Some of that is sound quality (the EQ curve and light stereo-echo) and some is nostalgia and experience. Mostly it's my bad ass record collection.
But I have a Pono that's still amazing. Candidate for best audio device ever made. Because it shows that digital can actually be high quality and portable using proper design. No compromises.
Clean DC. No radio interference. Separate digital and analog boards. High end DAC. Dual outs, balanced if you can take it. Rugged, simple design. All in one. Expandable library on SD cards. Pono is the perfect iPod that Apple never made. Pono sounds like a studio sounds. Like the artist intended it to sound. No MP3 or CD player i've ever heard hits that mark.
Anyone who's gotten this far in my post needs to research DAP's and buy one. Get a Fiio or A&K or whatever, as long as it's hi-res and ready to rock. If you see Ponos for sale buy 2. Or 3 and sell me one. I dread the day my 2014 model doesn't wake up. I'd say it's about 75% more effective at making me feel human than any phone or pod ever has. That's quality sound and the power of music. It's not just for rich people or your living room. You can have it mobile.
I think many people care about audio quality. Maybe 50% of consumers.
But amongst that group, ignorance runs amok.
- There's the "i'm not technical" crowd that buys every marketing scam and upsell. Bad consumer.
- There's the "money is the easiest measure" crowd that just overspends on every single bit and makes good audio seem for the rich only.
- Then there's my least favorite type - the ones that think they know what they are talking about but have no understanding of signal chain. These people infest the internet like cucarachas.
To understand sound, music, the recording of it, the transfer of it, and the playback of it, you need to go to professional studios and listen to the people and gear within. You need to understand audio signal chain. Garbage in = Garbage out. You need to understand resolution and master quality. Then you can get into all the degradations done to that product before it gets to the consumer.
Doctors, scientists, programmers, -- all smart -- but they focus on parts, subsets of sound, taken out of context or ignoring the entire distribution process. We don't debate the best telephone voice or most amazing 8k downsample. We debate music because it moves humans like no other force on the planet.
I believe that we are suffering from 30+ years of marketing masquerading as science. The redbook (CD) format was a compromise from day one. It was the best their 1978 minds could imagine the market of 1983 could bear.
They were right. 24bit audio chips were cost-prohibitive until the late 90's. (Now they are extremely affordable but most manufacturers still stick with the cheaper 16bit chips.) With pseudo-science claiming 'no one can hear the difference' they continue their crusade against quality.
By the mid-90's production studios were going 24bit. All the big labels were going to 24bit as their master format. It was believed that the consumer would go 24bit soon thereafter. Several consumer formats appeared. Then the internet happened.
I was there. Holy crap can we get audio through this thing? No way, not in real time. Not even stereo 16bit redbook. Need to compress. A lot. Like throw out over 50% of the audio signal. Better cover that up! Mission accomplished.
I remember being amazing by an mp3. Even a low-res one. To think they got a CD to go through the network haha I remember thinking stuff like that! Then I'd fire up Pro Tools and work in 24bit and think... hmmm.... this project is going to really need to be reduced multiple times to get to listeners now. Damn. But oh how cool, let me fill up my iPod with a few hundred mp3's instead of 2 hi-res albums.
So almost 20 years later... most of us are trying to jam out to wireless speakers throwing sound all over all directions out of phase, pushing lossy files with even more bluetooth loss, and people don't know who to believe. Just give me my music! You think you are getting old (you are) and that's why things don't sound as good as they used to. But you've been given less and less as the digital decades play out.
I do plenty of modern streaming. It's convenience only. Sound quality is still crap. I also play records through a nice affordable rig in the front room. Some of that is sound quality (the EQ curve and light stereo-echo) and some is nostalgia and experience. Mostly it's my bad ass record collection.
But I have a Pono that's still amazing. Candidate for best audio device ever made. Because it shows that digital can actually be high quality and portable using proper design. No compromises.
Clean DC. No radio interference. Separate digital and analog boards. High end DAC. Dual outs, balanced if you can take it. Rugged, simple design. All in one. Expandable library on SD cards. Pono is the perfect iPod that Apple never made. Pono sounds like a studio sounds. Like the artist intended it to sound. No MP3 or CD player i've ever heard hits that mark.
Anyone who's gotten this far in my post needs to research DAP's and buy one. Get a Fiio or A&K or whatever, as long as it's hi-res and ready to rock. If you see Ponos for sale buy 2. Or 3 and sell me one. I dread the day my 2014 model doesn't wake up. I'd say it's about 75% more effective at making me feel human than any phone or pod ever has. That's quality sound and the power of music. It's not just for rich people or your living room. You can have it mobile.
Sold my LG G7 Thinq 2 weeks ago. Ordered the LG V50 Thinq 6 days ago. Picked up the V50 today. Also rocking it with Sony WH1000XM3, Tidal Master and USB audio player pro. Posting in this thread really make my day complete. Hope someone understands why. But... only on selected LG models...
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You are asking the wrong person. Ask one of these audiophiles in this thread who could never tolerate something as simple as Bose.
This is going to far from reality...I consider myself as a sick audiophile moron ....at home I have a decent HI FI system close to High End and I am listening and playing music for more than 40 years. Just recently I decided to purchase serious earbuds for my iPhone X, just for the sake of situation being somewhere outside and wanting to listen to some nice piece of music. Of course all music on my X is ALAC format and I have Nu Force HEM 6 earbuds....well, quite frankly for a short period of time outside that's a reasonable sound for most, me included, but nothing so small can come even close to a serious HI FI system sound. Period.
....at home I have a decent HI FI system close to High End and I am listening and playing music for more than 40 years. Just recently I decided to purchase serious earbuds for my iPhone X, just for the sake of situation being somewhere outside and wanting to listen to some nice piece of music. Of course all music on my X is ALAC format and I have Nu Force HEM 6 earbuds....well, quite frankly for a short period of time outside that's a reasonable sound for most, me included, but nothing so small can come even close to a serious HI FI system sound. Period.