Does Logic Pro X 10.2 use Metal on El Cap?

Discussion in 'OS X El Capitan (10.11)' started by Autistic Behaviour, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. Autistic Behaviour macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #1
    well, the title says it all. I've been trying to find definite info on this, and did not find anything conclusive.
     
  2. chevalier433 macrumors 6502a

    chevalier433

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    #2
    Metal API when supported speed up graphics.Logic is a sound edit app:).
     
  3. Trahearne macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Metal is not just for graphics, but also compute.
     
  4. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #4
    What? I've been trying to do 3D graphics with Logic....thats why it didn't work ;)

    You see, Logic seems to be pretty resource heavy, when drawing the UI for plug-ins and the timeline. For example, a project might use, lets say, 20% cpu, with all plug in windows closed. When I open 1 or 2 plug in UI's, it almost doubles, to roughly 40%.

    That was on my mbp 13" early 2011. I now have an mbp 13" mid 2012 (which supports Metal Api). The jump from intel hd 3000 integrated GPU with 512mb of VRAM to the intel hd 4000 with 1536 mb of VRAM will quite certainly help. Thus, my original inquiry: Does Logic pro x 10.2 use the Metal API to draw and redraw the UI ? Or, will that be introduced to Logic on a further .update?
     
  5. plexdk macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Just see how mission control went smooth all of sudden.. I would love to see metal being used in Logic :)
     
  6. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #6
    So, you think it is not currently supported? I was under the impression that all official Apple apps would support it by the Public Release of El Capitan (or, current GM candidate) .....
     
  7. plexdk macrumors 6502

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    #7
    I dont know.. Too risky to install the GM on the studio computer :p
     
  8. throAU macrumors 601

    throAU

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    #8
    I'm not Logic user but I am a bit of a nerd and suggest that Logic will be using whatever the host OS uses to draw the UI. So you may see UI improvements with Metal if your GPU supports it, but that won't be due to any special support in Logic, it will be due to the host OS's UI widget drawing.

    I suspect the only sorts of apps you'll see targeting metal specifically for graphics will be those that are doing 3d views and the like, anything using standard UI widgets will just be drawn using whatever method the host OS deems appropriate. If the host OS uses Metal for that, it will be using Metal.
     
  9. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #10
    Well, it makes sense. But, I've also read, for example, that a game that has not been developed with Metal api integration, wont use Metal, even if its played on an OS using it (like El Cap). So, my thinking is: Was Logic 10.2 developped to take use of Metal? Or, does it fall back on Open gl/cl?

    Just curious about it. Im testing 10.2 right now and it seems to be handling the UI better, more CPU efficient. But then again, like I said, I upgraded from a 2011 mbp to a 2012. So I dont know if its Metal, the upgrade or both....
     
  10. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #11
    For sure! 2nd partition for me!
     
  11. felt. macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Metal isn't even supported yet by the video drivers available. It requires OpenGL 4.4 which you can check the status of on your machine by running the 'OpenGL Extensions Viewer' from the appstore.

    Also El Capitan updated the auvaltool and many plugins fail to validate specifically in logic but work in other programs.
     
  12. chrfr macrumors 603

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    #13
    Metal is a replacement or alternative to OpenGL. It does not require OpenGL in any way and works in 10.11 with any Mac built since 2012.
     
  13. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #14
    Yeah, I used AU validation tool to make them work ( arturia, NI, and a few others). They work perfectly, same cpu stress as usual...except, when I open the plug in window, its worst then all the others. It goes to almost triple the cpu usage.
     
  14. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #15
    Can't say that I know much on the subject, but thats what I thought.
     
  15. felt. macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    I meant that you can verify if your hardware/driver combination will actually support metal by checking if it supports OpenGL 4.3* (not4.4), if it does it should be good. This does not mean metal operates within OpenGL. The latest nvidia web drivers have no support for it yet.

     
  16. chrfr macrumors 603

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    #17
    As I said before, Metal works with Macs made since 2012, including those with integrated GPUs. The 13" 2014 Retina Macbook Pro I'm using to write this post only supports OpenGL 4.1, but supports Metal.
    Code:
    MetalInfo!
    Metal Device Name:  Intel Iris Graphics
    Lower Power Device: No
    Headless Device:    No
    
     
  17. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #18
    what is the exact command to get metal info?
     
  18. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #19
    openGL 4.1 on my mac, according to the viewer
     
  19. chrfr macrumors 603

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    #20
    You need to download the test utility from here: http://netkas.org/?p=1405
     
  20. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #21
  21. Autistic Behaviour, Sep 19, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015

    Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #22
    But, to somewhat come back to my original question ( somewhat)....Does Metal (or openGL, openCL, for that matter) even have an effect on UI drawing (like plugin windows in Logic), or is that Cocoa? or both together? ;)

    Bear with me, im just starting to be interested in all this ;) I've done some reading, but I need a lot more!


    because much of the info I've read is about 3d graphics*
     
  22. jeanlain macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Metal has nothing to do with openGL 4.3 or 4.4. A radeon HD 6XXX which supports openGL 4.4 will not support Metal (nor Mantle, Vulkan and DX12 for that matter).

    And to answer the OP: very few apps, if any, directly use openGL to draw their UI. They use Core Graphics (for 2D drawing) and Core Animation. I believe that Core Animation already uses Metal to some extent in 10.11. I'm not sure about Core Graphics, because it's a 2D drawing API that doesn't use the GPU. If its internals are updated to use Metal, all apps using Core Graphics will benefit from it.
     
  23. Trahearne macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Since it is an audio application, if it is using OpenCL for certain filters or operations, it is possible for Apple to add an optimised Metal path. Other than this, I don't think Metal would have a direct influence in its business logic. The presentation layer (UI) would be accelerated though, as a few related libraries now have an optimised path written in Metal.
     
  24. Autistic Behaviour thread starter macrumors member

    Autistic Behaviour

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    #25
    Thanks everybody for your answers, interesting read...

    That was my initial basic question: can/will Metal Api reduce cpu usage (on my integrated GPU) when opening a plugin window UI in Logic?

    And just to be clear, when I speak of double or triple the cpu use in logic (usually, maximum double), when opening plugins, its directly in the logic pro process (activity mon, istat), not on the window server process...
     

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