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k.alexander

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 14, 2010
502
264
Anyone with iOS 10, can you advise if Apple Mail does proper (instant) push notifications for new email received on gmail's server?

Also, if you delete Mail or Maps, what happens if you click a mailto link or an equivalent maps link? I've read that it takes you to the AppStore is that correct?
 

Jason Cox

macrumors member
Aug 23, 2012
31
12
Dallas, TX
No, Google depreciated Push in Gmail (and most Google Apps accounts) a few years ago to cut costs; Push was licensed as part of Exchange ActiveSync from Microsoft. I believe their official Gmail app does support Push, however it's their proprietary implementation instead of the industry standard which is what Apple supports.

I can't speak for Mail, but if you delete Maps and try to load up directions via Siri or by clicking on a link, nothing happens. There's no option to set Default Apps yet.
 

k.alexander

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 14, 2010
502
264
Thanks. I am aware of Google deprecating Push in Gmail. I guess what I was hoping is that apple would build in support for Google's proprietary method. Other apps like Outlook on iOS and many others support Push of Gmail.
 
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shenfrey

macrumors 68020
May 23, 2010
2,424
657
Thanks. I am aware of Google deprecating Push in Gmail. I guess what I was hoping is that apple would build in support for Google's proprietary method. Other apps like Outlook on iOS and many others support Push of Gmail.

I just forward my gmail to my @me account.
 

ajiuo

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2011
1,129
641
I don't know why Apple would even allow gmail on its devices period... The g stands for "Government" because google probably lets them have it all in addition to advertisers.
 

stulaw11

Suspended
Jan 25, 2012
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It's on Google's end as they stopped licensing Microsoft EAS (activesync/push) so there is nothing there to push emails on Google's side.

nothing to do with Apple at all.
 
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stulaw11

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Jan 25, 2012
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The Outlook app runs your email through their servers and then pushes the notifications; hence compromising your security. MANY MANY businesses will not let you do that as it compromises sensitive or confidential information; or it may be unethical yourself to do so for many professions.

Apple is very pro privacy and doent run the mail app that way.
 

GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
3,355
1,682
It's on Google's end as they stopped licensing Microsoft EAS (activesync/push) so there is nothing there to push emails on Google's side.

nothing to do with Apple at all.
Yes but Gmail added push to their proprietary protocol. It is feasible that Apple would add support for it in their client, in the same way they support the proprietary exchange protocol. But it doesn't seem they have.
 

stulaw11

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Jan 25, 2012
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Yes but Gmail added push to their proprietary protocol. It is feasible that Apple would add support for it in their client, in the same way they support the proprietary exchange protocol. But it doesn't seem they have.

Gmail uses IMAP Idle, not "push" (or Exchange Activesync/EAS).

True, Apple could/should implement IMAP IDLE, but the mail app already supported EAS for along time. It was google who removed EAS on their end thus nothing to push to the mail app.

Thats why the gmail app is like "push," it is using IMAP IDLE. But with Apple and Google's feud, do not expect cooperation to build it into the Apple mail app
 

GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
3,355
1,682
Gmail uses IMAP Idle, not "push" (or Exchange Activesync/EAS). True, Apple could implement IMAP IDLE, but the mail app already supports EAS. It was google who removed it on their end thus nothing to push to the mail app.
No, there's a Gmail API which supports push. It's relatively new. Read up on it.This is beyond the existing traditional IMAP, Exhange, etc.

Gmail have this API for third party mail clients to use

Mail could feasibly support it, but it doesn't. Valid question; it's definitely not the case that Apple can't do anything. Not that I blame them for not supporting it.
 

stulaw11

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Jan 25, 2012
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No, there's a Gmail API which supports push. It's relatively new. Read up on it.This is beyond the existing traditional IMAP, Exhange, etc.

Gmail have this API for third party mail clients to use

Mail could feasibly support it, but it doesn't. Valid question; it's definitely not the case that Apple can't do anything. Not that I blame them for not supporting it.

I understand that, the Gmail API push notifications, but you're again assuming that Google has any incentive to let Apple use that API, beyond it built for Android use, or that Apple wants to spend it's time building it in.

They also found downfalls to this API especially with people with bigger email boxes and some other issues with volume https://developers.google.com/gmail/api/guides/push#limitations

Apple wont throw in tech if it isn't working for all users well.

I think it's beating your head against not 1 but 2 brick walls. I would love a gmail push solution, but frankly I dont see it anytime soon.
 

GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
3,355
1,682
I understand that, the Gmail API push notifications, but you're again assuming that Google has any incentive to let Apple use that API, beyond it built for Android use, or that Apple wants to spend it's time building it in.

They also found downfalls to this API especially with people with bigger email boxes. Apple wont throw in tech if it isn't working for all users well.

I think it's beating your head against not 1 but 2 brick walls. I would love a gmail push solution, but frankly I dont see it anytime soon.
Sure it's available for iOS, see here https://developers.google.com/gmail/api/quickstart/ios

Discussion here https://m.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3z4d5s/why_dont_we_have_push_for_gmail/cyjefu0

Apple are also open to the pitfalls of Exchange...

You claim
I've made assumptions when I clearly said I don't really blame Apple for not supporting it, just saying that they COULD. What assumptions?
 

stulaw11

Suspended
Jan 25, 2012
1,391
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Sure it's available for iOS, see here https://developers.google.com/gmail/api/quickstart/ios

Discussion here https://m.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/3z4d5s/why_dont_we_have_push_for_gmail/cyjefu0

Apple are also open to the pitfalls of Exchange...

You claim
I've made assumptions when I clearly said I don't really blame Apple for not supporting it, just saying that they COULD. What assumptions?

Ive made zero claims or anything. All I said was good luck convincing Apple

Bottom line Aple doesnt want to implement whatever proprietary API/code Google has, like it or not. IMAP IDLE or this new API or whatever it is. It's been this way for years clearly.

It is use IMAP or a third party app right now. Until Apple and Google make up, if ever.
 

ajiuo

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2011
1,129
641
My phone gives me a message that says... Due to privacy concerns, all Google apps and services will be blocked as of October 1, 2016.
 

ronno

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2014
324
331
None of these arguments hold water, it seems to me.
As Walt Mossberg pointed out recently, the app Mail by EasilyDo (which I recently installed on my iPhone 6) gets messages as fast, if not faster, than Gmail and Inbox.
SO why can't Apple sort this out???
Instead Apple lets the more than 1 BILLION monthly Gmail users have a non-optimum experience, missing and late emails, botched search functionality, etc.
 

stulaw11

Suspended
Jan 25, 2012
1,391
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None of these arguments hold water, it seems to me.
As Walt Mossberg pointed out recently, the app Mail by EasilyDo (which I recently installed on my iPhone 6) gets messages as fast, if not faster, than Gmail and Inbox.
SO why can't Apple sort this out???
Instead Apple lets the more than 1 BILLION monthly Gmail users have a non-optimum experience, missing and late emails, botched search functionality, etc.

MANY third party apps run your data through a server which is why they can push any IMAP account. Apple doesnt do it that way by policy/privacy policies

Many businesses etc prohibit their employees from even doing this as its a security issue
 

ronno

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2014
324
331
MANY third party apps run your data through a server which is why they can push any IMAP account. Apple doesnt do it that way by policy/privacy policies

Many businesses etc prohibit their employees from even doing this as its a security issue

I think the poor experienced is inexcusable. I have had mail sit for more than 2 hours undelivered to Apple's janky email app.
Besides: why is search within iOS mail so broken? It is relatively useless. I end up needing 3 different mail apps within iOS just to have the functionality I need.
It's a poor user experience in what is probably the most used Internet app of all: email.
 

k.alexander

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 14, 2010
502
264
I think the poor experienced is inexcusable. I have had mail sit for more than 2 hours undelivered to Apple's janky email app.
Besides: why is search within iOS mail so broken? It is relatively useless. I end up needing 3 different mail apps within iOS just to have the functionality I need.
It's a poor user experience in what is probably the most used Internet app of all: email.

I agree. Why is it when I'm asleep at home and my phone is both charging and on good Wifi, I only get new emails the second I pick up the phone for the first time in the morning, even if those emails came in overnight? Why is search broken just as the poster above noted? And to get back to the original question, I get it, Google used to support the Exchange protocol, and then they got rid of it, and replaced it with IMAP Idle and as I understand possibly a second proprietary API; if Apple support Gmail as it does, and A LOT of people use Gmail, why does Apple offer sub-par experience by not supporting some way (one of multiple) to allow us to receive timely push notifications of new emails?
 

ronno

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2014
324
331
I agree. Why is it when I'm asleep at home and my phone is both charging and on good Wifi, I only get new emails the second I pick up the phone for the first time in the morning, even if those emails came in overnight? Why is search broken just as the poster above noted? And to get back to the original question, I get it, Google used to support the Exchange protocol, and then they got rid of it, and replaced it with IMAP Idle and as I understand possibly a second proprietary API; if Apple support Gmail as it does, and A LOT of people use Gmail, why does Apple offer sub-par experience by not supporting some way (one of multiple) to allow us to receive timely push notifications of new emails?

And no ability to send from Gmail aliases?!?

I could go on but will not.

It's stunning to see their dog and pony show yesterday spending all kinds of time on sending doodles and stickers via IMessages, and not a peep about the far more crucial email!
 

BrianBaughn

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2011
9,674
2,427
Baltimore, Maryland
MANY third party apps run your data through a server which is why they can push any IMAP account. Apple doesnt do it that way by policy/privacy policies

Many businesses etc prohibit their employees from even doing this as its a security issue

EasilyDo's mail app doesn't do it that way, apparently.
 

ronno

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2014
324
331
So they can sell your information to advertisers and the NSA. I bet they record every keystroke on their new iOS keyboard.

If EasilyDo could sort this out, then Apple can. Don't make excuses for this Behemoth (Apple) with unlimited resources.
They should make this mission-critical app work pronto.
 

ajiuo

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2011
1,129
641
If EasilyDo could sort this out, then Apple can. Don't make excuses for this Behemoth (Apple) with unlimited resources.
They should make this mission-critical app work pronto.
I'm not making excuses. I'm wondering why anyone would use gmail in the first place.
 
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