Does Scaling lower Crispness typically?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Mac2c, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. Mac2c macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #1
    Hi all, so I got a U2515H monitor set at the full 2560x1440 resolution with my 15" MBP 2015. The font seems a bit small, so I tried to scale it down one notch and immediately I notice it seems a bit more blurry. From some youtube videos I' was under the impression that scaling does not affect crispness. Is that true or am I not doing something right?
     
  2. jerryk macrumors 68040

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    SF Bay Area
    #2
    Displays have a native resolution that produces the best looking display. Almost any adjustment from that cause some loss of fidelity (crispness), since the display and associated firmware are optimized to this native resolution.
     
  3. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    Ok, I thought since the pixels stay constant on the display itself, by having a good scaling software, one could retain all those pixels at a different resolution, but I guess that's not how it works.
     
  4. robvas macrumors 68030

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    USA
    #4
    You could on a Retina display (it is still slightly noticeable) but not on 'normal' display
     
  5. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    #5
  6. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #6
    When you say Retina Display are you talking about higher resolutions like a 4k monitor?

    I guess the higher the resolution the less likely you will notice the scaling, like being on a 4k going down one or two notches from such a high res, would still be noticeable but not that bad because it's still fairly at a high resolution, right? I'm implying it's not so much as scaling being optimized for higher resolutions, it's just natural the higher it is, the less you will notice it when you go down a notch.

    By the way I'm on Sierra, just got my Macbook new.
     
  7. leman macrumors G3

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    Oct 14, 2008
    #7
    Yes, on a 1440p display its easy to notice the non-native resolution, because the pixel density is relatively low and a human eye can perceive the scaling artefacts. Once you get to HiDPI displays though, scaling has almost no noticeable difference in quality.
     
  8. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    #8
    As I understand it, Mac scaling uses pixel doubling, which requires having more pixels to use. Windows scaling works differently and looks better on the low-rez screens.
     
  9. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #9
    That's what I thought.

    Hmm ok, not sure how all that works. At this point I'm not sure what to do because it's very hard to go lower than 1440p, love the fidelity a bit too much but if I can't work on it, then that defeats the purpose.
     
  10. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    #10
    Yeah, it's unfortunate that the scaling doesn't work better on normal screens. You might be able to get some decent advice on an alternative monitor in the accessories forum:

    https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/mac-accessories.77/

    I'm thinking about getting a Sony 43" 4K TV, and if I do, I'll try it as a monitor. I know some MBP owners use it that way, but I don't know how well it works beyond general remarks of happiness.
     
  11. realpras, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017

    realpras macrumors regular

    realpras

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    Oct 6, 2013
    #11
    I'm using U2515H too and I found that, with 2560x1440, the UI is too small it hurts my eyes in the long run.

    As mentioned by Sanpete before, use this tool here https://comsysto.github.io/Display-...or-with-HiDPI-Support-For-Scaled-Resolutions/ to generate custom HiDPI resolutions. 1600x900 & 1920x1080 worked for me best. Scroll down for full instruction (and read https://comsysto.com/blog-post/force-hidpi-resolutions-for-dell-u2515h-monitor for more detailed information, including how to disable SIP)

    And it works fine in Sierra. After doing all the steps, you can find your custom resolutions by pressing Option button while clicking on the 'Scaled' option on the Displays menu on System Preferences.

    By default, the tool is already set up for U2515H monitor, but just double check because the DisplayProductID can be different depending on how you connect your Mac to the display (from HDMI or DisplayPort).

    Just note, because it's not written in the instruction, if you want to make a custom HiDPI resolution, you have to make 'the doubled version' of the desired resolution. For example, if you wanna have 1920x1080 in HiDPI, you also have to make 3840x2160 non-HiDPI using the tool. If it's 1600x900 in HiDPI, then also make 3200x1800 in non-HiDPI, and so on.

    By the way, just in case you don't know, HiDPI is just the technical term for Retina-quality (or you could say, 'Retina Display' is the marketing term for HiDPI display, although 'Retina Display' in Apple world involves more than pixels/ppi).

    Let me know if you have any question.
     
  12. xsdeus macrumors regular

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    May 24, 2012
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    San Diego, CA
    #12
    I have the U2515H as well, and set it at native scaling (100%). How far did you guys set the monitor?
     
  13. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #13
    Thanks so much for your post! I'm glad to know there is a work around.

    I managed to do all the steps in the links provided, however I was not able to test this manual method because I didn't want to get that RDM software from a dropbox location. I felt more safe buying a dedicated program for all of this, even after disabling and renabling SIP. I got QuickRes as the author in the links suggested.

    I have it set to 1920x1080 at the moment and it looks pretty amazing right now!

    Anyhow I'm wondering now, how I can undo this code instruction
    "sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver.plist DisplayResolutionEnabled -bool true" which I entered in terminal? I'm tempted to just change the true to false but don't want to be too quick to assume that does undo the changes. I want to undo the copy of that file as well, I'm assuming I'd have to disable SIP again , but I'm not sure what the delete code is for Terminal.

    Oh by the way I'm very new to Mac OS, just two days? I didn't even know where to put those codes and what Terminal was :) So yeah if you can help me undo all that that would be great.
     
  14. realpras macrumors regular

    realpras

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    Oct 6, 2013
    #14
    Actually, you don't need to get the RDM software to activate the HiDPI mode, because you've already enabled the HiDPI mode using the Terminal code so you can just choose the custom resolutions from the Display menu on System Preferences.

    Glad to hear you enjoy using QuickRes, though. Is it good? So are you using 1920x1080 in HiDPI now? I've never tried it myself so would be curious to hear your opinion.

    The terminal code to revert back is:
    sudo defaults delete /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver.plist DisplayResolutionEnabled
     
  15. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #15
    Regarding QuickRes and HDPI in general, I actually ordered a new monitor the U2415 with a resolution of 1920x1200 to see if there is a difference between that and the U2515H on 1920x1080 HiDPi mode, and I can confidently say that the U2515H looks much much better at 1920x1080 hidpi (using QuickRes) than the higher resolution of the U2415 set at 1920x1200. So this hidpi stuff really works.

    To answer your question, yes I'm using the 1920x1080 in hidpi using QuickRes and pretty happy with it. It does interefere sometimes with a brightness adjuster app in which case the QuickRes needs to be exited and relaunched or was it the brightness adjuster that needs relaunching? Don't recall, I have used my MBP just today again since our last post. But yes I do recommend it, for me 1920x1080 hidpi is the highest resolution on hidpi so it doesn't go higher on this mode on QuickRes, but you can select other resolutions in non-hidpi that are even higher than your screen allows (didn't try it).

    Thanks for the terminal code to revert back. I actually uninstalled QuickRes to see if I could get the resolutions without the RDM from the Display menu but I could nto see them. So I'm not sure if the codes I entered were wrongly entered or not. Is there a way to check the status or see which ones in that guide got executed?
     
  16. realpras macrumors regular

    realpras

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    Oct 6, 2013
    #16
    Of course, any resolution in HiDPI will look better in terms of pixel density compared to non-HiDPI resolutions :)

    If you revert the terminal code back, you won't find the custom resolutions on your Displays menu. You need to activate it, generate your custom resolutions using the tool, place the .plist file on the appropriate system folder, then you can find the custom resolutions by holding the Option key on your keyboard while clicking on the 'Scaled' option on the Displays menu.

    But I guess if QuickRes works well for you, just use that. You've purchased it, anyway. So no need to fiddle around manually anymore.
     
  17. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #17
    I also wanted to test out the 16:10 aspect ratio with that res on that 24" inch monitor since I've been using 16:10 for nearly 10 years. Returning that monitor and keeping the 1440p. HiDPI in other words means to be able to use more pixels that the monitor is capable of at a lower resolution, correct?

    Ok thanks, I had no idea I had to hold the option key, I do see the different resolutions now.

    Yeah may just operate under QuickRes or can revert to manual if that glitch becomes bothersome.
     
  18. realpras macrumors regular

    realpras

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    Oct 6, 2013
    #18
    What brightness adjustments app that you were talking about, btw? Did you mean the built-in brightness setting by pressing F1 & F2 buttons?
     
  19. Mac2c thread starter macrumors member

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    Feb 17, 2017
    #19
    The app is called the Brightness Slider. I got this app because F1 & F2 doesn't adjust the brightness on the external monitor. I'm sure you've tried it. But having the this app allows you adjust the brightness of both simultaneously on the computer. The arrow keys could work as a shortcut to increase/decrease brightness. I wish F1 & F2 would just do the job that would be ideal.
     
  20. MrX8503 macrumors 68020

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    Sep 19, 2010
    #20
    If the scaling isn't 1X or 2X, you'll see some quality loss.

    25" is quite small for 1440p resolution, so I can understand why text is small for you. You can run HiDPI mode, but you'll lose screen real estate. Text will be larger though if that's what you want.
     

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