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Amazon will never allow third-party companies to sell their digital content on their Kindle Fire tablets, they really want to control the experience, hence why the modified and restricted the heck out of Android.
As far as I know installing third-party applications from outside the Amazon store on a Kindle Fire is possible once the option is enabled on the device: "Gear icon -> Settings -> Device and turn on Allow Installation of Applications From Unknown Sources". If apps from outside the "curated" store are allowed Amazon does allow third-party companies to sell their digital content on the Kindle Fire, the third-party only needs to provide the app from outside the Amazon store and then the application can do whatever it wants.

What I'm saying is, let's be fair here, if the DoJ, thinks that what Apple did is unlawful, then why does it continue to allow the rest of the industry to have such practices, including Amazon?
If the above part is still true Amazon does not have the same practices. Anyway I actually disagree with the DoJ's interpretation of Steve Jobs' email: to me it seems Jobs' goal was more among the lines "today the Kindle App is basically the same on iOS and Android, so people have no reason to favor one or the other. With IAP the Kindle App's experience in iOS would be far better than in Android.".

PS: I don't own a Kindle Fire, feel free to correct me in case the "sideloading" information is outdated.
 
In App Purchases and Why Apple Should Remain

Apple should be the only payment methodology for IAP specifically. Why? Because it creates a control system where I know IAP will always be linked to the same account, and under the iTunes rules, will always be recoverable.

Without this system, imagine companies like Zynga who would set up their own IAP process, and in turn if you delete the app and reinstall, or get a new app, they could say, "oh sorry, we don't do recovery of IAP, buy it again." Apple's rules don't allow this, and that's a good thing.

It also creates a consistent experience for consumers. If I am buying something in an app, I want to make sure I know exactly how much it will cost, how often I will be charged, and I want those prompts to be consistent. I also want to know I won't have to enter my information 1,200 times for different vendors so they can have different rules for each vendor.
 
If you use the Kindle App to buy eBooks then read them on non-Apple devices like the Kindle how is that benefiting Apple? Once consumers realise they don't need an iPad they will start shifting to cheaper tablets. It's in the email from Phil Schiller. The iTunes Store is the main reason many people buy an iPhone or iPad.
I read them also on non-Apple devices, mainly my Kindle Paperwhite. The reason is pretty simple, I like to read outside and in a sunny day the iPad's screen is inferior to an ePaper device. This doesn't mean I don't read on my iDevices too and since the Retina iPad I'm actually quite happy with the reading experience (as long as the environment is not too bright). With my iPhone I have all my ebooks collection right in my pocket wherever I am.

I buy iDevices because I like the overall experience. I'm not interested in a cheaper tablet unless that tablet offers the same or a superior overall experience, which for now I have not found. Without the Kindle App the iOS experience to me would take a huge hit and other alternatives would start to look much more interesting. That's why Apple benefits from the Kindle App being available in iOS.

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Google: Kindle Cloud Reader or go here.

You can buy books from here:
http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-eBooks/

There is nothing preventing Amazon from expanding their cloud reader to have the ability to buy from within the cloud reader app itself since it is a web app.
I actually don't need IAP in the Kindle App, I would buy from the website anyway.
 
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Windows is a software platform. If you want to write a Windows app, you must link to the proprietary operating system code and be subject to Microsoft's ToS and licensing policies. Microsoft reserves all right to decide the rules, and they simply chose to use the traditional operating system model; theoretically they could be more restrictive if their ToS covers it (if we disregard the potential consequences from MS having monopoly in PC OS market).

Mac OS X is a software platform. If you want to write a OS X app, you must link to the proprietary operating system code and be subject to Apple's ToS and licensing policies. Apple reserves all right to decide the rules, and they simply chose to use the traditional operating system model like Microsoft did. Just a small note that the situation here is a little bit different from iOS because you can write UNIX applications without directly linking to Apple proprietary code.

iOS is a software platform. If you want to write an iOS app, you must link to the proprietary operating system code and be subject to Apple's ToS and licensing policies. Apple reserves all right to decide the rules, and this time they made a rule that the apps must be installed through their App Store.

My point is that it is by choice, either voluntary or market pressure, that Windows and OS X allows installing softwares without restrictions in most cases (although this is not always true since there are certain softwares like drivers that Windows has restrictions on what can be installed). It is NOT an automatically granted right to write and distribute software on either Windows, OS X, iOS, or whatever platform you name it. It is mostly historical reasons that most PC operating systems have been that way.

The argument involving iTunes on Windows is ridiculous for that reason. It is Microsoft's choice not to put such restrictions by making corresponding rules. Hence, they have no basis on discriminatory treatment written anywhere in their ToS, license, et cetra. They could introduce some blanket rules like Apple did in their App store, but they wouldn't dare because that is very unlikely to give them any advantage in their current business model.

iOS has been using the tightly controlled model in the beginning. As long as the app runs on iOS, it must link to system libraries, so Apple can decide that it cannot be installed from a channel different from their App Store. Also, Apple has all rights to set the rules for App Store that 1. IAP for digital goods used on iOS must pay 30%, and 2. physical goods, tickets, etc. are exceptions. What matters is it is written for iOS and distributed via App Store. I'd say that as a whole counts as "offering a space and taking percent commission" in retail analogy, not just App Store itself. It is irrelevant whether Apple delivers IAP content or not. Heck, you aren't even forced to use one if you don't like it.

Web browser argument is a somewhat different case. It is not technologically feasible to enforce 30% rule while conforming to user privacy rules and offering web experience that users expect. Also, using web browser usually adds more inconvenience vs. having them done all in apps using Apple IAP; hence Apple need not care.
 
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Never understood why Apple deserves 30% of IAP. Applications in general, but they don't need to host IAP content...

Because they can. They have full control and monopoly since these people have nowhere to go. Apple can force their developers to use Apple's payment system, which automatically turns into a 30% cut. We understand that Apple is a business, but as long as they are uncontested, they can do what they want.... and we will still buy them and developers will still build apps on it first. The beauty of a monopoly :cool:
 
Further proof of what scum bags Apple are and especially Steve.

"If they want to compare us to Android"....wahhh wahhh wahh
 
they made that up, the reality is that they were stealing our money, why did you do that apple:(. this has heavily damaged apple reputation.
 
Because they can. They have full control and monopoly since these people have nowhere to go. Apple can force their developers to use Apple's payment system, which automatically turns into a 30% cut. We understand that Apple is a business, but as long as they are uncontested, they can do what they want.... and we will still buy them and developers will still build apps on it first. The beauty of a monopoly :cool:

You're right, iOS is a monopoly. If only there were other handheld/smartphone/tablet OS out there...

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Whats the difference between using the app and using a web browser? They are both just software inside iOS. I would argue that Apple has less rights to take a cut from within the app, since a third party created the app, not Apple. You're just agreeing to the standard that Apple has set up, because all you've known is Apple.

Less rights? What the heck are you saying? They have the right because it's their OS. Whether you believe they should demand a cut or not, and how much is irrelevant. They have the right to and that's all that's important in this discussion.
 
Can you get Apple iBooks from Amazon? How about Google apps? All these companies restrict their content to their devices, but everyone seems to want a ride on the Apple ecosystem.

Let's see the DOJ try to force Ford dealers to sell Chevy products. And I'm not talking about the used car lot.

Dale


That's a terrible analogy.

This is more like if Ford ran their own chain of gas stations that you could fill your Ford up at, but if you fill up at Shell, Ford would demand a 30% cut of your purchase.
 
Why is this so hard to understand?

If you sell something in my store, I get a piece of it. Just like physical stores. There's no difference as the size or type of sale. A sale is a sale and I get a piece. Sure you could sell your wares someplace else, but this is revenue, in my store, that you would not get if you were not in my store.

Again, why can't people understand this? I've countless post from people who don't get it. I even read tons of posts that wrongly say the opposite - that Apple should pay the app devs.

This is simple business. Apple has to make money of IAP. Imagine this. All apps go free but have IAP. Apple make NO money. So now you see why. Those IAP are sales in their store. Please try and understand.

Because its more than one layer deep. If you buy something through the Apple App store, Apple deserves and can take a cut. If you buy something through the Amazon store, they do not.

A good example would be a shopping mall. You can charge people rent for the space to operate a shop, but you aren't entitled to a cut of their revenue.
 
Because its more than one layer deep. If you buy something through the Apple App store, Apple deserves and can take a cut. If you buy something through the Amazon store, they do not.

A good example would be a shopping mall. You can charge people rent for the space to operate a shop, but you aren't entitled to a cut of their revenue.

Ummm... a mall is often entitled to a cut of their revenue. :)

For example, the negotiations with Apple for their Grand Central store.
https://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/06/apples-grand-central-neighbor-seeing-7-increase-in-sales/
 
Because its more than one layer deep. If you buy something through the Apple App store, Apple deserves and can take a cut. If you buy something through the Amazon store, they do not.

A good example would be a shopping mall. You can charge people rent for the space to operate a shop, but you aren't entitled to a cut of their revenue.

How would you propose that Apple charge "rent" in this case? What would a fair "rent" be? Would it be the same for a 1-man shop selling one app as for Electronic Arts and all their games? $99 a year for unlimited development is way too low (the current iOS developer fee), so what would you suggest?
 
You'd better tell my Kindle that it isn't allowed to read all of those epub files I emailed to it (which Amazon converts and adds to your account for free).

Better than nothing, I suppose. I guess you should go tell all the other Kindle owners who have been asking for native epub format since the Kindle was introduced.
 
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Here's the thing: Apple is given all this praise, but without Microsoft money in the 90's, Apple would have been out of business.

This is absolutely true. But people also seem to think that MS simply gave Apple money and that was that. MS did get quite a lot for their investment. Out of that investment came the largest order of PowerMacs FOR Microsoft to design the XBOX. So really, without MS, there would be no Apple; AND without Apple, there would be no XBOX.
 
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To me this has very little to do with books. It has everything to do with preventing developers from leveraging the app store architecture for free. It has already been stated in many posts here; but if Apple were to allow 3rd party IAP, then every app on the appstore will eventually be “Freeware” that once you download it, you simply buy an unlock code from the developer directly.
This causes:
* No revenue for the app store to maintain its service
* Hidden price of the app as all apps would be “free” (with other outside purchases)
* Varying experiences in the payment for apps (some will be horrible)
* Poorer quality apps, as many more apps would become just “shells” that couldn’t be tested unless it’s Features were downloaded an paid for.
* The possibility of ID-thieving software (i.e. A Freeware game with a 3rd party Payment system that steals credit cards)
Now I DO FEEL that apple shouldn’t be taking a cut of books, videos, etc… as that is “content” in my mind. But it’s hard to define a line between what counts as “content” and what counts a “features” because I fully believe apple should get a part of all transactions that add “Features” to an app sold through the app store.
What I mean is, what if I “sold” a Free Game on the app store (and paid Apple $0 to host it). But each level was considered “Content” that users could download directly from me. I could sell a $10 game and completely bypass paying apple any money for hosting the app.
Perhaps, larger vendors, like amazon could negotiate to be an approved 3rd party vendor to allow purchases through their app without going through Apple. They may have to pay apple a one-time “fee” (perhaps yearly) for Apple to test and certify their 3rd party payment system.
Just a thought…
 
How would you propose that Apple charge "rent" in this case? What would a fair "rent" be? Would it be the same for a 1-man shop selling one app as for Electronic Arts and all their games? $99 a year for unlimited development is way too low (the current iOS developer fee), so what would you suggest?

Should Apple get a cut of all business that occurs on iOS devices? If I buy something on ebay, should apple get a cut?

If I call in a pizza hut order should apple get a cut? If I use a pizza hut app to place an order should apple get a cut?
 
Should Apple get a cut of all business that occurs on iOS devices? If I buy something on ebay, should apple get a cut?

If I call in a pizza hut order should apple get a cut? If I use a pizza hut app to place an order should apple get a cut?

What does "should" have to do with anything?

Kinda funny that your own analogy demonstrated exactly the opposite of what you thought it did, and yet that doesn't change your mind. :D
 
And exactly why it is too low?

Are you serious? So, Electronic Arts could spend $99 a year and sell millions of dollars of apps on the app store? Really? I hope you never try to open your own business...

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Should Apple get a cut of all business that occurs on iOS devices? If I buy something on ebay, should apple get a cut?

If I call in a pizza hut order should apple get a cut? If I use a pizza hut app to place an order should apple get a cut?

You didn't answer my question: how should Apple figure out what a fair "rent" should be, if not a percentage of sales made by the developer? You are clearly expressing your dislike of Apple taking a percentage, but you are not offering any feasible alternative(s).
 
Are you serious? So, Electronic Arts could spend $99 a year and sell millions of dollars of apps on the app store? Really? I hope you never try to open your own business...

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You didn't answer my question: how should Apple figure out what a fair "rent" should be, if not a percentage of sales made by the developer? You are clearly expressing your dislike of Apple taking a percentage, but you are not offering any feasible alternative(s).

Why does it matter of they make a lot of money on the App store?

Edit: They being EA.
 
Business 101

I read some of the posts and all I can say is, you can tell who owns a business and business backgrounds and those who clearly don't!!!

If I own a business & one of my employees does a side job in my facility, my business should get a cut. You are doing business out of my store!

Anybody that has an App on App Store owes Apple money, either pay them rent to use their Mall or pay a percentage of your sales. Apples business model is a percentage of what you sell period. If you don't like it don't put your Apps on the App Store.

They pay all the overhead to sell your App for you with one of the most successful business models. It cracks me up how people think everything should be free for them to profit yet can't understand that Apple is a business for profit.:cool:
 
That's a nice claim DOJ, too bad it was not part of the arguments made when you presented your case, there was no evidence offered related to that, and it was not found in the ruling from the judge. It sounds like DOJ wants to come after Apple for charging for in-app purchases now, but that's an entirely different case.
 
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