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Huh? Apple doesn’t stop pebble from creating its own phone and OS.

Smartwatches are a market in and of themselves. Regulators know this which is why Apple has all of the antitrust cases that they do.

The idea that if you want to compete with the Apple Watch that you would need to build entire computing platform is utterly absurd, again regulators know this.

Even Microsoft, one of the worlds biggest companies, couldn't compete in mobile there just isn't a market for a third platform.
 
Smartwatches are a market in and of themselves. Regulators know this which is why Apple has all of the antitrust cases that they do.

The idea that if you want to compete with the Apple Watch that you would need to build entire computing platform is utterly absurd, again regulators know this.

Even Microsoft, one of the worlds biggest companies, couldn't compete in mobile there just isn't a market for a third platform.
We need regulations to allow a third (and more) competitors to exist.

Not treating smartwatches as a market in their own right would be a good start. It discourages pebble from competing.

There also isn’t a market for third party app stores or third party smartwatches (hence pebble failed the first time around, and will fail again).

If regulators want to create markets that currently don’t exist, they should focus on the ‘core’ products in those markets i.e., the mobile operating system. They should be creating a lot more competition in the mobile OS market and that will also solve the App Store and smartwatch markets at the same time.
 
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We need regulations to allow a third (and more) competitors to exist.

Not treating smartwatches as a market in their own right would be a good start. It discourages pebble from competing.

How? Windows phone failed because developers are just not going to support more than two platforms in mobile. Even Microsoft with all of the resources they have couldn't do anything about it. There is no chance at all that Pebble could.

What we need is regulators to make sure that the two companies that have a hegemony in mobile play fair with third parties.
 
How? Windows phone failed because developers are just not going to support more than two platforms in mobile. Even Microsoft with all of the resources they have couldn't do anything about it. There is no chance at all that Pebble could.

What we need is regulators to make sure that the two companies that have a hegemony in mobile play fair with third parties.
Ban developers from picking winners?

It’s developers who want multiple app stores anyway! They are desperate to have more than 2 choices.

Multiple operating systems are a developers dream as it means they have loads of app stores competing against one another.
 
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Ban developers from picking winners?

It’s developers who want multiple app stores anyway! They are desperate to have more than 2 choices.

Multiple operating systems are a developers dream as it means they have loads of app stores competing against one another.

How? some devs are small independent shops. Why should they be told that their company now has a ton more overhead because trillion dollar corporations can't play fair?

The reason so many devs want third party stores is to avoid the ridiculous App Store rules from Apple and Google, Apple in particular.

The answer is the one you are trying to avoid. Put measures in place to make sure mega corps like Microsoft/Apple/Amazon/Meta/Google can't use their size and market power to crush smaller competitors.
 
How? some devs are small independent shops. Why should they be told that their company now has a ton more overhead because trillion dollar corporations can't play fair?

The answer is the one you are trying to avoid. Put measures in place to make sure mega corps like Microsoft/Apple/Amazon/Meta/Google can't use their size and market power to crush smaller competitors.
But that doesn’t create additional competition at the operating system level which is where we need increased competition.

2 operating systems
2 app stores
2 smartwatches

Or

4 operating systems
4 app stores
4 smartwatches

Win, win, win.
 
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Just move Google to a different country. The internet is not bound to a country, so there is no need to have the ad services in the USA.

Instead of the London Stock Exchange, Google has the London Ads Exchange for example.

And Google Ads is still too cheap if companies pay money to Google to spam and annoy me on a daily basis, which guarantees I will never buy their products in my life.
 
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US gov thinks Google is too big and wants them to sell off pieces of the company. Won't that just make Apple look too big and forced to do the same in a few years? Especially if they have a browser and Google doesn't because they had to sell off Chrome.

The thing also is, the pieces of Google are not profitable. Everything is paid for by Google Ads. Without Google Ads, all the other services don't exist.

The current situation is perfect for everyday consumers. We get to enjoy all these services for free.
 
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But that doesn’t create additional competition at the operating system level which is where we need increased competition.

2 operating systems
2 app stores
2 smartwatches

Or

4 operating systems
4 app stores
4 smartwatches

Win, win, win.

Lose, lose, lose.

That helps nobody.

What we need is ONE free software fully open operating system, ZERO app stores, and as many smartwatches as anybody wants.

App stores need to die. We have the internet, developers can put up their own web sites and sell or give away their own apps if the Apple & Google monopolies on app distribution are smashed.

iOS is a nice operating system, it would be far better if Apple wasn't allowed to lock it down.
 
That said, it is still stupid at best to force Google to sell off Chrome. Who would buy it?
The browser is free. So where is the value in owning it?
Selling Chrome won't stop people from searching with Google. Two completely different things.
Most browsers have Google as the default search engine.
Any teenage can assist in changing that.
I learned about DuckDuckGo while trying to learn some Linux.
Firefox is pretty much the default browser with Linux as it is open source and supported by donations.
The Linux distros I've seen do not have Chrome in their app store, but sometimes include Chromium.
The DOJ is barking up the wrong tree.
It isn't the browser but the search engine. Search results is something I don't understand.
That seems to be the issue. Good luck in fixing that. "Catch me if you can."
Kind of like Amazon showing up at the top of many search results. Good luck changing that too.
I use DDG to search in their Shopping tab. It searches using Bing. I can't prevent that.
Apple should buy Chrome so they can kill it off. Then they need to fork Safari to other operating systems.
I used Chrome on my old 2007 iMac, as it got older, as it worked the best for even simple games.
Most of the people I know have an iPhone and that's it. Windows computers.
So guess who can't use Safari? Yeah I got all messed up with syncing browser bookmarks with iCloud for Windows, so I don't go their, and shouldn't have to.
If a person doesn't know how to change their search engine, they may not figure out how to sync non-Safari bookmarks with iCloud for Windows.
 
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That said, it is still stupid at best to force Google to sell off Chrome. Who would buy it?
The browser is free. So where is the value in owning it?

It's the most widely used browser

There is ENORMOUS value (almost incalculable) in controlling the defaults and standards of that product
 
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It's the most widely used browser

There is ENORMOUS value (almost incalculable) in controlling the defaults and standards of that product
Is that because too many don't know how or care to change the way Chrome works?
Like with any Windows install, or reinstall, I start by turning off everything.
Isn't Apple part of the issue? Don't they pay Google to keep it as the default search engine?
Back in the day VHS was the most popular by far, but Beta was better. Video tape, for you young'uns.
 
Is that because too many don't know how or care to change the way Chrome works?
Like with any Windows install, or reinstall, I start by turning off everything.

The power of defaults is almost stunning ... same is true of defaults on Apple products.

Those of us here are not at all "normal users" who get in and tweak stuff.

Those of us here are not at all "normal users".
We get in and tweak stuff, whereas normal users tend to just "use it as is".

edited for clarity - thank you @jimimac71
 
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Lose, lose, lose.

That helps nobody.

What we need is ONE free software fully open operating system, ZERO app stores, and as many smartwatches as anybody wants.

App stores need to die. We have the internet, developers can put up their own web sites and sell or give away their own apps if the Apple & Google monopolies on app distribution are smashed.

iOS is a nice operating system, it would be far better if Apple wasn't allowed to lock it down.
Having an OS is of no use if there’s no hardware to run it on. Developers probably think that making the hardware is the easy part, all their typing… and then more typing, THAT’S the hard part. :) But, no, designing hardware that people might want to spend their money on, then building/testing that hardware, packaging that hardware and shipping that hardware, selling that hardware AND supporting that hardware after the sale, that’s the hard part. Oh, and don’t let me forget creation and upkeep of the development tools + supporting developers. That’s also a part of the hard part.
 
The power of defaults is almost stunning ... same is true of defaults on Apple products.

Those of us here are not at all "normal users" who get in and tweak stuff.
I just might be puzzled. If you are saying normal users don't tweak stuff, then I get it.
The whole concept of Apple from as far back as I can remember, "It just works."
Yes, we traditionally click OK without reading various end user agreements.
With Android, saying OK means granting a lot of permissions that don't need to be.
I try to keep as little on my devices as is possible.
 
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Historically, illegal monopolies were defined by attempts to curtail trade in areas adjacent to the main business focus
Apple’s main business focus is sales of Macintosh computers, smartphones and tablets.
Like Microsoft using their OS power to force OEM’s into preferential contracts across the entire PC ecosystem or Standard Oil buying up the competition then putting them out of business giving them the edge in distribution
Apple - together with Google - have used their OS and giving away developer tools and resources for (nearly) free to establish a duopoly in distribution of mobile apps.
This idea that a company can have an illegal monopoly over the things they created is a new thing and, fortunately, hasn’t been held up in court anywhere.
Apple did NOT create the vast majority of iOS apps - yet they have a monopoly on their distribution (to consumers).
The government interest in limiting Apple comes from deep pocketed interests that are seeing a future where a wide swath of people are getting their digital content through App Stores.
Exactly: that’s Apple’s monopoly or gatekeeping power.
Whatever you want to call it.

And cry me a river about “deep pocketed interests”.
Apple is more deep-pocketed than any of those “interests”.
They’re literally among the richest, most valuable companies of the world.
 
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Apple - together with Google - have used their OS and giving away developer tools and resources for (nearly) free to establish a duopoly in distribution of mobile apps.
The moment you say “together with Google” you are no longer talking about anything that would be remotely similar the causes/reasons for actions against the singular companies, Microsoft and Standard Oil (It wasn’t Microsoft and… Standard Oil and…). I understand why you do, because without adding “extra stuff” it’s just “Apple sold things that people wanted to buy and some people don’t like the choices that those customers have made.” :)

Apple did NOT create the vast majority of iOS apps - yet they have a monopoly on their distribution (to consumers).
And, Apple doesn’t have a monopoly over the vast majority of iOS apps. Many of those apps actually appear on other platforms, so there’s not even any exclusivity which WOULD be a cause for concern (as that would be an attempt to control commerce on platforms beyond those that Apple directly controls, which is what Microsoft and Standard Oil did, and why Apple wisely avoids doing those things). Those apps are controlled by the developers that make business decisions to make them available on Apple’s App Store. At any time, they could remove those applications from the App Store and there’s literally nothing Apple could do.

Exactly: that’s Apple’s monopoly or gatekeeping power.
Whatever you want to call it.
It’s not a monopoly by definition, which is why nothing in the DMA SAYS it’s a monopoly (because if it did, they wouldn’t have been able to get the member countries to sign off on a falsehood), so if anyone referred to it as a monopoly they would not be relating to anything truthful about the DMA. So, even you know it’s not “whatever you want to call it”, you just want to make it appear to be a semantic difference. :)
 
The moment you say “together with Google” you are no longer talking about anything that would be remotely similar the causes/reasons for actions against the singular companies
Yes, it is, considering Apple and Google have operated the same busibess models and conditions in their stores to the point of collusion. Whether it’s one or two companies that are controlling 95% of the market amount to the same - if and when the two companies act and behave the same.

And, Apple doesn’t have a monopoly over the vast majority of iOS apps.
But over their distribution.

Many of those apps actually appear on other platforms
Doesn’t matter, because these platform don’t compete with Apple’s App Store directly - as gas stations do (customers are free and many do switch day-to-day).

Those apps are controlled by the developers that make business decisions to make them available on Apple’s App Store. At any time, they could remove those applications from the App Store and there’s literally nothing Apple could do.
When they’re confronted with and have no other option than “take it or leave it” from one distributor, that distributor has monopoly power.

They can’t distribute their iOS apps through other means (not outside of jurisdictions that explicitly require it, that is).
 
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Yes, it is,
Except for no. So now, it’s collusion? So, who were Standard Oil colluding with? Who was Microsoft colluding with? Compared against ACTUAL monopolies, well, there’s literally no comparison which is why no case using the term has gone forward and was successful. :)

But over their distribution.
You mean the Apple App Store? APPLE App Store? Yes, Apple has control over distribution of apps for Apple products when businesses decide to place their wares on the APPLE App Store to be distributed to APPLE iPhones running APPLE iOS by APPLE.

When they’re confronted with and have no other option than “take it or leave it” from one distributor, that distributor has monopoly power.
Of course Apple has monopoly power over the Apple iPhone, the Apple App Store, Apple iOS, Apple Cleaning Cloths, Apple Mac Pro wheels and the Apple Vision Pro. Though most rational people call those “goods and services provided by the company who’s name is emblazoned on the products”. Even in the EU, the DMA does not refer to it as a monopoly either. So anyone that wants to call it a monopoly is at odds with the EU regulators that determined that Apple, clearly, has no illegal monopoly.
 
Except for no. So now, it’s collusion? So, who were Standard Oil colluding with? Who was Microsoft colluding with?
Apple and Google are, regarding their App Store pricing and policies.
You mean the Apple App Store? APPLE App Store? Yes, Apple has control over distribution of apps for Apple products when businesses decide to place their wares on the APPLE App Store to be distributed to APPLE iPhones running APPLE iOS by APPLE.
Yes. And they should have complete control over it.
Except: When their store forms a duopoly with Google for all smartphone apps.

Of course Apple has monopoly power over the Apple iPhone, the Apple App Store, Apple iOS, Apple Cleaning Cloths, Apple Mac Pro wheels and the Apple Vision Pro
Of course. And you know what? They’re free to market their products anyway they want, at any price and distribution channel they want.

The only exception is (should be) be the App Store: where they have monopolised distribution of third-party apps - while competing with those third-party apps.
 
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