"Dongle City" could have been avoided if Apple placed the I/O onto the charger

[Hexley]

Starting in 2016 Apple designed all their Mac notebooks to USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports only.

Only Mac desktops retained the older I/O until 2021 Macs.

Reason being that Apple wanted to make as compact & light weight a computer as possible.

This caused a lot of problems for users who need HDMI, Ethernet, USB-A/USB3 and SDXC card slot.

The 2021 iMac 24" showed us that Apple could have skipped all the 5+ years of drama and instead placed all those I/O onto the USB-C charger thus creating the first multi-port USB-C hub/charger.

If they wanted to they could have placed a powerbank inside thus doubling battery life further from say 10hrs to 20hrs.

Apple may have charged $200 extra and people would still buy it because it would be that useful.

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop to the charger while presenting.

When I use my MBP without a charger I tend not to plug anything into it unless it's a USB flash drive for short file transfers.

I think USB-C/USB4/TB4 is far more relevant today than in 2016 but we have to acknowledge that Apple wouldn't be that ridiculed if they placed the I/O onto the charger.

There would be detractors about the non-traditional approach but does somewhat runs parallel to Apple's design philosopy.

 

[DeltaMac]

Ethernet on a power line (POE) is part of the ethernet protocol, right?
Do those other I/O suggestions also work as easily as Ethernet over power?

I agree that your powerbank idea sounds interesting, but wouldn't that make the power adapter unacceptably large?

 

[MacLC]

Starting in 2016 Apple designed all their Mac notebooks to USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports only.

Only Mac desktops retained the older I/O until 2021 Macs.

Reason being that Apple wanted to make as compact & light weight a computer as possible.

This caused a lot of problems for users who need HDMI, Ethernet, USB-A/USB3 and SDXC card slot.

The 2021 iMac 24" showed us that Apple could have skipped all the 5+ years of drama and instead placed all those I/O onto the USB-C charger thus creating the first multi-port USB-C hub/charger.

If they wanted to they could have placed a powerbank inside thus doubling battery life further from say 10hrs to 20hrs.

Apple may have charged $200 extra and people would still buy it because it would be that useful.

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop while presenting.

When I use my MBP without a charger I tend not to plug anything into it unless it's a USB flash drive for short file transfers.

I think USB-C/USB4/TB4 is far more relevant today than in 2016 but we have to acknowledge that Apple wouldn't be that ridiculed if they placed the I/O onto the charger.

There would be detractors about the non-traditional approach but does somewhat runs parallel to Apple's design philosopy.

They should've but for the "inches thin" & "pounds light" nonsense. My camera uses two NPF 6600mwh batteries and they're not impossibly heavy.

Apple likes their "pirate not navy" status but they also grasp dogmatically weird fetishes that don't offer much of form or function.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

This caused a lot of problems for users who need HDMI, Ethernet, USB-A/USB3 and SDXC card slot.

And then what, have people crawl under the desk to connect a USB stick or SD card? You usually don't disconnect ethernet one it's connected. Or do you mean for a MacBook? Then you're dragging around a heavy and large power supply. If you really wanted that feature, you could have easily bought a third party TB3/USB-C dock which does exactly that. Charge the device and offer connectors. Downside of course is, you'd have to connect the charger whenever you want to work mobile, which is not an issue for a desktop.

If they wanted to they could have placed a powerbank inside thus doubling battery life further from say 10hrs to 20hrs.

End end up with a charger bigger and heavier than the MB itself? Uhm, no thanks. Just look at other laptops such as Razer, which have a 230W power supply... it's really big and heavy.

Ethernet on a power line (POE) is part of the ethernet protocol, right?

That's not what PoE is about. PoE is supplying network components such as access points with power, so you don't have to run both ethernet and power lines to wherever you place the AP.

 

[DeltaMac]

I was just asking questions.
But, the biggest question for me - Why would Apple put only ethernet on that upgrade power adapter? Why not USB-A, or HDMI, or even an additional (or 2) Thunderbolt port?

 

[KaliYoni]

I think the massive reduction in I/O ports and built-in hardware over the last decade or so is the inevitable outcome of the awful combination of a chief designer obsessed with thinness and continuous surfaces and a chief executive officer obsessed with supply chain efficiencies and incremental cost savings. Yes, that means you, Sir Jony, and you, Tim Apple.

The current rumors about the upcoming MBP having a variety of ports and MagSafe charging make me hopeful, though...

 

[chrfr]

The 2021 iMac 24" showed us that Apple could have skipped all the 5+ years of drama and instead placed all those I/O onto the USB-C charger thus creating the first multi-port USB-C hub/charger.

You've just invented the Thunderbolt dock. I wouldn't want to carry this around when traveling.

 

[Hexley]

Ethernet on a power line (POE) is part of the ethernet protocol, right?
Do those other I/O suggestions also work as easily as Ethernet over power?

I agree that your powerbank idea sounds interesting, but wouldn't that make the power adapter unacceptably large?

Anker has a Ultimate 2-in-1 Charger: A hybrid high cell capacity portable battery and dual-port wall charger in one sleek package.

 

[Hexley]

I was just asking questions.
But, the biggest question for me - Why would Apple put only ethernet on that upgrade power adapter? Why not USB-A, or HDMI, or even an additional (or 2) Thunderbolt port?

Good question. Really wish Apple did that.

 

[Hexley]

I think the massive reduction in I/O ports and built-in hardware over the last decade or so is the inevitable outcome of the awful combination of a chief designer obsessed with thinness and continuous surfaces and a chief executive officer obsessed with supply chain efficiencies and incremental cost savings. Yes, that means you, Sir Jony, and you, Tim Apple.

The current rumors about the upcoming MBP having a variety of ports and MagSafe charging make me hopeful, though...

If those rumors were true then I regret buying my 2019 MBP 16".

 

[Stephen.R]

Ethernet on a power line (POE) is part of the ethernet protocol, right?
Do those other I/O suggestions also work as easily as Ethernet over power?

I agree that your powerbank idea sounds interesting, but wouldn't that make the power adapter unacceptably large?

Um no. PoE is about sending relatively small amounts of power over regular Ethernet cabling, to allow devices to operate without the need for extra power cabling.

It’s often used for IP security cameras, and wireless access points.



There are some commercial “power line” products that aim to send data over mains power lines but I’m not aware of any standard for it.


I don’t see why any of that is really relevant to data ports on a charger though. In the iMac scenario it’s likely just additional shielded wiring along side the DC power, within a single sheath.

For the laptop scenario the charger is already USB-C - the OPs suggestion would just mean apple ships a tb3 dock/hub device as it’s “charger”

 

[GSWForever8]

Starting in 2016 Apple designed all their Mac notebooks to USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports only.

Only Mac desktops retained the older I/O until 2021 Macs.

Reason being that Apple wanted to make as compact & light weight a computer as possible.

This caused a lot of problems for users who need HDMI, Ethernet, USB-A/USB3 and SDXC card slot.

The 2021 iMac 24" showed us that Apple could have skipped all the 5+ years of drama and instead placed all those I/O onto the USB-C charger thus creating the first multi-port USB-C hub/charger.

If they wanted to they could have placed a powerbank inside thus doubling battery life further from say 10hrs to 20hrs.

Apple may have charged $200 extra and people would still buy it because it would be that useful.

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop while presenting.

When I use my MBP without a charger I tend not to plug anything into it unless it's a USB flash drive for short file transfers.

I think USB-C/USB4/TB4 is far more relevant today than in 2016 but we have to acknowledge that Apple wouldn't be that ridiculed if they placed the I/O onto the charger.

There would be detractors about the non-traditional approach but does somewhat runs parallel to Apple's design philosopy.

That would be perfect!

 

[Slartibart]

Ethernet on a power line (POE) is part of the ethernet protocol, right?
Do those other I/O suggestions also work as easily as Ethernet over power?

you are wrong. POE stands for Power Over Ethernet - allowing you to use you Ethernet cable network to power compatible devices using the Cat 5/6/7 cable. Caveat: don’t connect a non-POE-device to such a connection!!!

you are referring to Ethernet over Powerline - which anecdotically can work, but it is highly perceptive and impacted by noise - e.g. your fridge - on the same powerline.

I haven’t seen the specs for the power supply of the new iMac - I guess it’ll work like a single port POE-switch. No signal is modulated on the powerline.

 

[Stephen.R]

Starting in 2016 Apple designed all their Mac notebooks to USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports only.

Only Mac desktops retained the older I/O until 2021 Macs.

Reason being that Apple wanted to make as compact & light weight a computer as possible.

This caused a lot of problems for users who need HDMI, Ethernet, USB-A/USB3 and SDXC card slot.

The 2021 iMac 24" showed us that Apple could have skipped all the 5+ years of drama and instead placed all those I/O onto the USB-C charger thus creating the first multi-port USB-C hub/charger.

If they wanted to they could have placed a powerbank inside thus doubling battery life further from say 10hrs to 20hrs.

Apple may have charged $200 extra and people would still buy it because it would be that useful.

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop while presenting.

When I use my MBP without a charger I tend not to plug anything into it unless it's a USB flash drive for short file transfers.

I think USB-C/USB4/TB4 is far more relevant today than in 2016 but we have to acknowledge that Apple wouldn't be that ridiculed if they placed the I/O onto the charger.

There would be detractors about the non-traditional approach but does somewhat runs parallel to Apple's design philosopy.

You can literally do this now:

Buy a USB-c hub with USB-PD support and the specific ports you want.

Plug your Apple laptop charger into the hub and the hub into your laptop.

There is no step 3.

 

[Stephen.R]

Caveat: don’t connect a non-POE-device to such a connection!!!

PoE isn’t like a power socket, it has to be activated like USB-PD.

 

[Stephen.R]

I guess it’ll work like a single port POE-switch

Huh? There is zero chance the iMac is using PoE for power.

 

[Slartibart]

Huh? There is zero chance the iMac is using PoE for power.

Well, it feeds ethernet and power to the same device - the power supply. Of course it’s only similar to a single port POE-switch: you have high voltage and Ethernet going in, and it then provides ethernet and low voltage on one cable to the iMac. Different connector on the iMac but it sounds technically pretty similar to e.g. any POE-WiFi access point I have installed so far. 😎

 

[Hexley]

You can literally do this now:

Buy a USB-c hub with USB-PD support and the specific ports you want.

Plug your Apple laptop charger into the hub and the hub into your laptop.

There is no step 3.

Step 3a... take the TARDIS back to 2016 and tell Tim Cook & Jony Ives about my idea.

Step 3b... take the TARDIS back to 2006 and tell Steve Jobs & Jony Ives about my idea.

 

[DeltaMac]

Anker has a Ultimate 2-in-1 Charger: A hybrid high cell capacity portable battery and dual-port wall charger in one sleek package.

Good idea, but that Anker model is a bit undersized for use with a laptop
That adapter has 15w power available. The current M1 MBPro comes with a 61w adapter.
Anker sells other power cells in the 60+ watt range, but those are about double the size of the iMac power adapter...

Anker 737 Power Bank (PowerCore 26K for Laptop)

Anker 737 Power Bank (PowerCore 26K for Laptop). Packed with a 25,600mAh capacity to charge your laptop on the go. Power 3 devices at once with a 60W USB-C port and 2 USB-A ports.

us.anker.com

 

[iphoneZ]

Take me down to the DONGLE CITY
Where the laptops slim
And the ports are ****ty

 

[Stephen.R]

Well, it feeds ethernet and power to the same device - the power supply. Of course it’s only similar to a single port POE-switch: you have high voltage and Ethernet going in, and it then provides ethernet and low voltage on one cable to the iMac. Different connector on the iMac but it sounds technically pretty similar to e.g. any POE-WiFi access point I have installed so far. 😎

I’d be very surprised if it’s anything at all like PoE. Apple have been doing data + power combined “single cable” solutions since the turn of the century. Remember ADC? The display was powered by a god damn video card.
That doesn’t mean it’s reusing the existing wires like PoE does.

it’s just extra wires inside the same sheath.

now whether those wires are literally just for Ethernet or whether they’re generic data lanes and the Ethernet controller is in the power brick is an interesting question.

 

[Stephen.R]

Step 3a... take the TARDIS back to 2016 and tell Tim Cook & Jony Ives about my idea.

Step 3b... take the TARDIS back to 2006 and tell Steve Jobs & Jony Ives about my idea.

USB hubs with PD in have been around for a while.

 

[Slartibart]

PoE isn’t like a power socket, it has to be activated like USB-PD.

You are wrong. POE provides up to 48V DC - if you connect any non-POE compatible device it probably gets damaged. Yes, a POE-device will negotiate the power it needs, but there is power on the e.g. RJ45-connector and many non-POE devices will simply get damaged when connected.

 

[Arsenikdote]

Well, it feeds ethernet and power to the same device - the power supply. Of course it’s only similar to a single port POE-switch: you have high voltage and Ethernet going in, and it then provides ethernet and low voltage on one cable to the iMac. Different connector on the iMac but it sounds technically pretty similar to e.g. any POE-WiFi access point I have installed so far. 😎

Apple is just routing power and Ethernet in the same bundle. It is not POE and doesn’t need to be. POE is to make wiring convenient and cheap. Apple’s goal is just to make it look nice by having the single bundle instead of two cables.

How do I know this? The 15W maximum draw of a PoE system. No way that iMac is only pulling 15W of power, even on the DC side.

 

[Hexley]

USB hubs with PD in have been around for a while.

Not prior to the 2016 Mac notebooks.