"Dongle City" could have been avoided if Apple placed the I/O onto the charger

[Hexley]

Good idea, but that Anker model is a bit undersized for use with a laptop
That adapter has 15w power available. The current M1 MBPro comes with a 61w adapter.
Anker sells other power cells in the 60+ watt range, but those are about double the size of the iMac power adapter...

Anker 737 Power Bank (PowerCore 26K for Laptop)

Anker 737 Power Bank (PowerCore 26K for Laptop). Packed with a 25,600mAh capacity to charge your laptop on the go. Power 3 devices at once with a 60W USB-C port and 2 USB-A ports.

us.anker.com

Correct so just scale up the size then.

There are gamers willing to carry a 300W charger... so there be Mac users who are willing to deal with the hassle with double the battery life.

 

[Xak444]

Ethernet on a power line (POE) is part of the ethernet protocol, right?
Do those other I/O suggestions also work as easily as Ethernet over power?

I agree that your powerbank idea sounds interesting, but wouldn't that make the power adapter unacceptably large?

Not to mention the heat aspect.

 

[Slartibart]

Apple is just routing power and Ethernet in the same bundle. It is not POE and doesn’t need to be. POE is to make wiring convenient and cheap. Apple’s goal is just to make it look nice by having the single bundle instead of two cables.

How do I know this? The 15W maximum draw of a PoE system. No way that iMac is only pulling 15W of power, even on the DC side.

Actually the POE “default” is often the 15.4W you are referring to. But that depends on the power supply. There are e.g. CISCO switches which provide up to 370W - but then again I wrote “similar” - I do not know what protocol Apple uses for the new iMacs - but the ethernet connection via the power supply seems to work similar. 🙂

 

[Stephen.R]

You are wrong. POE provides up to 48V DC - if you connect any non-POE compatible device it probably gets damaged. Yes, a POE-device will negotiate the power it needs, but there is power on the e.g. RJ45-connector and many non-POE devices will simply get damaged when connected.

If you’re using cheap ****** non-compliant PoE injectors/extenders? Sure.

but if you put diesel in a petrol engine that will damage it too.

if your equipment is 802.3af/at compliant it uses negotiation to setup PoE supply, and stops supply when if the device stops drawing enough current to indicate an active device.

 

[Slartibart]

If you’re using cheap ****** non-compliant PoE injectors/extenders? Sure.

but if you put diesel in a petrol engine that will damage it too.

if your equipment is 802.3af/at compliant it uses negotiation to setup PoE supply, and stops supply when if the device stops drawing enough current to indicate an active device.

So for the sake of your argument which Apple devices or USB-C-with-Ethernet-hubs are 802.3af/at compliant? I wait while you count 🙂

 

[Stephen.R]

There are e.g. CISCO switches which provides up to 370W

Actually there are Cisco switches with 740w capacity.

But that’s because we’re taking about 24 and 48 port switches. 802.3bt-2018 does allow for up to 71w but those Cisco’s are just doing ~30w to a **** load of devices.

The iMac is not using PoE or anything like it. If I put mains ac wires and cat6 Ethernet wiring in the same plastic conduit would you call that “similar to PoE” too?

 

[Stephen.R]

So for the sake of your argument which Apple devices or USB-C-with-Ethernet-hubs are 802.3af/at compliant? I wait while you count 🙂

Apple don’t make devices that inject power for PoE and USB hub with an Ethernet port isn’t going to provide power to other devices using PoE, so none. That’s the whole ****ing point.

if a non-PoE device is plugged into a compliant PoE source device, it just does regular Ethernet.

 

[Slartibart]

Apple don’t make devices that inject power for PoE and USB hub with an Ethernet port isn’t going to provide power to other devices using PoE, so none. That’s the whole ****ing point.

if a non-PoE device is plugged into a compliant PoE source device, it just does regular Ethernet.

No it does not. I wish that would be the case. I am one of the network administrator for a relatively large school district. I have seen people bring their own device and damaging it when connecting it to POE patched connectors. For devices of a variety of manufactures.
you are right, there is a “gold standard” - but then a company like Unify or Cisco or whoever offers some WIFI-access point with a simple power supply and POE with a price “to good to be true” so the district will buy them… and the people disconnect it to connect their Apple/HP/Lenovo/etc.-device and… oohps. At least that’s my experience.

 

[Stephen.R]

you are right, there is a “gold standard”

It’s called 802.3, it’s literally what defines Ethernet.

a company like Unify or Cisco or whoever offers some WIFI-access point with a simple power supply and POE with a price “to good to be true” so the district will buy them…

Huh? Why would you be plugging a client device into an access point? The whole point is that it provides, from the upstream wired connection.

I am one of the network administrator for a relatively large school district.

Good for you. The last “electrician” I hired didn’t know what an earth is

I tend to trust someone demonstrating that they know what they’re talking about more than claims of their job title.

Literally the only thing that maybe makes sense out of what you’ve said is if the AP shipped with a dumb (read:not spec compliant) injector specifically for the purpose of powering the ap when you don’t otherwise have PoE on the Ethernet and you left the injector in place when the ap was unplugged.

which is kind of like complaining that power sockets are dangerous if you stick a fork in them.

A PoE switch or compliant injector will not do what you’ve described. If your students are able to access the data point and unplug the AP you’ve got bigger problems than dumb injectors.

 

[Slartibart]

Huh? Why would you be plugging a client device into an access point? The whole point is that it provides, from the upstream wired connection.

Hm, in the district where I work teachers tend to bring their own device. And they ‘just” plug it in - a.k.a. disconnect the access point and connect whatever they bring. And it often did not end well. We actually had to install red coloured covers on POE-RJ45 wall connectors and put up warnings to reduce problems - read calls to technical support that say “my device has stopped working”.

 

[Slartibart]

Literally the only thing that maybe makes sense out of what you’ve said is if the AP shipped with a dumb (read:not spec compliant) injector specifically for the purpose of powering the ap when you don’t otherwise have PoE on the Ethernet and you left the injector in place when the ap was unplugged.

where talking public, governmental investments here. A POE-capable switch, while the best solution, might be more expensive than a hardware bundle including a “simple” power supply. because this solution is much cheaper - and even tailored by companies like Unify, Cisco &company to governmental bid invitations - it is what is.
Heck, sometimes they don’t even include a adequate power supply nowadays.

 

[venom600]

Good question. Really wish Apple did that.

Is it really that hard to understand? They make a mint selling dongles. Why would they give you a USB-A port and a HDMI port when they can charge you $70 for a dongle?

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

I wrote a similar post a while ago... Integrating some basic ports (HDMI and 2x USB-A mostly) into the adapter would have made the all USB-C transition a lot less painfull.
If you traveled sometwhere you would only have need to bring your power brick and that's it...
The additional cost or space on the brick is neglible compared to the benefits.

As for the PoE... this thread is nonsense... mostly because everyone is using the term PoE which is NOT a standard.
PoE simpley means power over ethernet. There are 3 official ACTIVE PoE standards (802.3af, 802.3at, 802.3bt) and lots of propreitary PASSIVE PoE "standards". Passive PoE WILL damage non-compliant equipment in many cases as the voltage is ALWAYS present. That's why PASSIVE PoE often supplies only 20V or less while the official active PoE standards are all 48V nominal voltage which is supplied only if requested by the client device.

PASSIVE PoE should NEVER be used on ports accessible to end-users. And they should always be labeled (best practice).
That said, the cheap passive PoE is -thankfully- losing market share in favor of 802.3at.

Anyway, the PSU of the iMac certainly uses some propreitary protocol from PSU to the monitor.

 

[KaliYoni]

Take me down to the DONGLE CITY...

Boot up!
Everybody's gonna search their bag
Shut down!
Everybody's gonna see a nag
You gotta waste your time in Apple Dongle City

 

[jace88]

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop while presenting.

I thought that too... but reflecting on what happens in the office or client sites as I move between meeting rooms/huddles/etc, I often plug the HDMI cable directly into my (non Apple) laptop. I can't imagine work life without the HDMI port being on the laptop as I don't tend to carry a charging brick with me, but I have seen some client sites where they've got a USB C to HDMI dongle in every meeting room as well.

 

[Scoob Redux]

I think the massive reduction in I/O ports and built-in hardware over the last decade or so is the inevitable outcome of the awful combination of a chief designer obsessed with thinness and continuous surfaces and a chief executive officer obsessed with supply chain efficiencies and incremental cost savings. Yes, that means you, Sir Jony, and you, Tim Apple.

The current rumors about the upcoming MBP having a variety of ports and MagSafe charging make me hopeful, though...

Exactly, when a "designer" run amok suggests an 11mm thin desktop computer with no internal power supply and only one type of i/o port, a truly visionary chief executive would say "absolutely not"...but Tim doesn't really understand how to create a sublime user experience - he's just a talking head that counts coins.

 

[Scoob Redux]

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop while presenting.

huh? when else would i use the HDMI except when presenting? i do that all the time with my 2015 MBP.

 

[Framboos_Matroos]

Making product X thinner isn't the only reason Apple removes ports tho. Even the Vivo v5 max (5 mm thick) has a headphone jack. They want to "push the industry forward, because wireless is the future" blah blah.

edit: typo

 

[Hexley]

I thought that too... but reflecting on what happens in the office or client sites as I move between meeting rooms/huddles/etc, I often plug the HDMI cable directly into my (non Apple) laptop. I can't imagine work life without the HDMI port being on the laptop as I don't tend to carry a charging brick with me, but I have seen some client sites where they've got a USB C to HDMI dongle in every meeting room as well.

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop to a charger while presenting.

Forgot to include the charger part. Minority of people would confuse the HDMI as the "plug"

 

[Hexley]

huh? when else would i use the HDMI except when presenting? i do that all the time with my 2015 MBP.

In use cases involving the use of HDMI it is highly likely that you'd plug in your laptop to a charger while presenting.

Forgot to include the charger part. Minority of people would confuse the HDMI as the "plug"

 

[Arsenikdote]

Actually the POE “default” is often the 15.4W you are referring to. But that depends on the power supply. There are e.g. CISCO switches which provide up to 370W - but then again I wrote “similar” - I do not know what protocol Apple uses for the new iMacs - but the ethernet connection via the power supply seems to work similar. 🙂

Most of this is just directed at the topic and all the posts about PoE in general

Also, just for reference (because I did a lot of this type of stuff in a previous life), according to the IEEE 802.3af standard for PoE, 15.4 is not a default but a maximum. PoE+ which is IEEE 802.3at can do 30W. And then comes IEEE 802.3bt which of course can do 100W, but by using ALL the pairs in the cable.

Of course as you stated, many MFG's use their own implementation of PoE, but those are not true PoE devices. Also as the wattage goes above the standard, most often they are just using the cable for power only, not power and data.

More so 90% of the time it is done for convenience in buildings. If you could have a power outlet near each device then it would be better than doing PoE. PoE is not as robust as a standard AC/DC converter built into most power bricks. So PoE is a workaround for a problem of not having power nearby. There is absolutely zero reasons for Apple to use it. They can route both things in one sheath without needing to adhere to the standard or couple those two things on the same wire.

 

[deeddawg]

I was just asking questions.
But, the biggest question for me - Why would Apple put only ethernet on that upgrade power adapter?

Ethernet jacks tend to be installed in walls fairly close to the power outlets, so having the port in the power brick is a nice solution for an AIO desktop computer.

Why not USB-A, or HDMI, or even an additional (or 2) Thunderbolt port?

You want to dig around behind your desk to plug stuff into those ports? I wouldn't want to.