You wouldn’t mix and master songs for an album in AAC, you’d just make AAC files from the final mix. Zero latency and lossless are pro features.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Don't Buy Into Apple's Hype About AirPods Max Gaining Lossless Audio
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I don’t like the way this tastes in my brain…
I can tell the difference in lossless versus AAC 256 but I only listen to classical music. I have pretty well trained ears after 43 years of playing the violin and piano. I also know that I'm 51 and I will lose that distinction soon. I also gave my original AirPods Max to my nephew because I never use them as I have much better wired headphones.
Oh - I guess I didn't read it properly. Then what's the big deal here? I already have that with Lightning.
Harsh, maybe—but there’s some truth in it too. We all know the difference between good and bad audio.
I grew up with AM radio and cassette tapes. My parents only ever bought cheap, all-in-one hi-fi systems with built-in record players from big-box stores, so even high-quality vinyl pressings never sounded better than cassettes to me. My audiophile phase started when I realized just how good music could sound with a decent setup. I spent thousands on amps, speakers, cables, stands, room treatments—you name it. Then came CDs, which were a revelation. It was like my ears had been full of wax until then.
When digital took over, I ripped all my CDs to MP3s and discovered FLAC. I convinced myself I could tell the difference between MP3 and FLAC—but only with certain tracks, and mostly when the MP3s were 128kbps. Above 192kbps, it’s a crapshoot. Honestly, a 256kbps AAC rip sounds indistinguishable from lossless to me now—especially with my aging ears.
I won’t say there isn’t a placebo effect at play, and I know some people really can hear the difference. It’s kind of like whisky: I can’t appreciate the difference between a 12-year and an 18-year aged bottle—aside from the price tag. Some people can, but I know where the price-to-enjoyment curve starts to flatten out for me.
I am the same age as you and am also a life long musician. Higher bitrates also include transient detail, and imaging data that is still audible even when those airy highs are gone.
I think a lot of people can’t tell the difference because they’re listening on poor quality speakers or headphones. Personally I find it very easy to tell the difference.
Why do we need this when we can just listen to lossless audio using "the built-in speakers" on our iPhone, iPad, Mac, PC, and Vision Pro? 
support.apple.com
About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support
Learn about lossless audio in Apple Music and how to turn it on or off for your device.
Well that’s a refreshingly honest headline. I’m pleased by this aspect.
They also have to care. For casual listeners it just isn’t that important. I have multiple levels of speakers at my house:
Home audio regions with basic amplifiers and speakers and I stream to them via airplay. Cheap overall and they do the job. Works great for background tunes.
For my home theater, I use a largish klipsh system. The speakers are OK but they move a LOT of air, which is fun for movies and loud music
In my recording studio, I have a set of Genelecs, those will make you cry with the definition you hear in the most mundane sources.
Most folks wouldn’t notice any major difference between them as they wouldn't take the time to listen, yet I can describe in detail the differences between them and could easily tell the difference in a blind test.
On the Genelecs anyone paying attention who doesnt have hearing loss could most likely hear differences in bit depth and frequency up to perhaps 24/48khz.
Last edited:
I will never forgive Eddy Cue for refusing to add lossless tracks to the iTunes Store just because he couldn’t tell the difference. The sooner he is pensioned off along with Cook and the rest of the old guard the better.
I meant Mac in a broader desktop ecosystem sense. Mainly, for instance, why can’t HomePods be used like this? With auto room correction, nice frequency response, and atmos capability, they would make a great output for my Mac mini. It’s silly that the only ‘direct’ option is laggy airplay. In fact you get much lower latency using them in eARC mode through an Apple TV and plugging the Mac into the TV. Why can’t they have a low latency wireless mode straight from Mac? Or why can’t I hardwire them like the AirPods Max? The Apple that actually made the MacBook Pro thicker and brought back the hdmi port is the Apple I wish we saw a little more often.
Got ya. Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you. Ironically I enjoy airplay for the convenience, but in my living room and studio, everything is hard wired and some of the devices are quite costly, but much better sounding than anything Apple offers.
Apple is very close to, but not over the line of restricting high quality audio on the platform. I actually left the brand for many years over the headphone jack, only coming back for Apple Silicon processors as they are incredible for audio production.
This honesty is very refreshing. Thank you MacRumors.
Agree with you on basically everything you’ve said. I’m one of the few who hopes Apple goes even further up-market, with their DSP technology being so excellent they could produce a $2,000 system that probably beat out most costing 5x that.
I use wireless for convenience on everything but very critical listening, it’s not worth the ~10% quality loss for me over the cable unless I’m at a desk in front of an interface or using my Hi-Fi system. Since I doubt they’re going to update these things again for a few years I’ll probably shell out to upgrade just to use them in Logic.
Hopefully someone makes a very light / flexible USB-C cable for this new feature, checking a mix with Apple’s renderer will be very nice vs. having to use some other solution that probably won’t get it quite right.
Still, a hypothetical H3 chip that solves all of this eventually will be wonderful. It is curious why HomePods can decode and play lossless but they can’t get the H1 to. The A8 is so old but it really shows the dedication of their audio team to provide support and new feature updates so long into the cycle. Hiring those B&O engineers really paid dividends.
Better archive that page about AAC... watch Apple erase it and pretend it never existed in 3...2...1...
Last edited:
I'm a self-professed "audiophile", and yeah, I'm not using AirPods Max. Most people who care about lossless are using a standalone DAC, headphone amp, and wired headphones, often open-back. Equipment like that will reveal differences between lossless and lossy.
That said, I'm all for adding more features, but marketing hype about "the way the artist intended" or whatever is just that: hype. And Bluetooth headphones can only go so far in bringing out the extra detail in a lossless or hi-res track.
I hate lossy anything—audio, video, or image. People put a ton of effort into making things sound and look good, from the artist to the engineer to the assembler. I can usually tell when something is lossy, but even if I can’t, I want to at least give it a chance. I don’t ever want to diminish the quality of someone’s work if at all possible.
Does any of this make any difference considering that now most people listen to music on really cheap headphones or cheap bluetooth speakers.
Back when I was younger, we would spend a few thousand on speakers separate preamps and power amps were common among enthusiasts. A good sound system back in the late 70's early 80's could easily cost well over $5000, with high end equipment several times more.
Back when I was younger, we would spend a few thousand on speakers separate preamps and power amps were common among enthusiasts. A good sound system back in the late 70's early 80's could easily cost well over $5000, with high end equipment several times more.
The difference is that this is apple certified low latency.
However if you want true, true ultra low latency, use a dedicated DAC / AMP, studio monitor headphones and avoid the Airpods Max.
The Airpods Max are a great pair for wireless listening.
I bought the APM in the first 3 months they were out...Never left my desk...Easily the best sounding headphones I'd ever owned, including the XM4's and XM5's... about 18-24 months ago they...started working... inconsistently...In the last 10 months, I can't use them at all...I can charge them, My Apple devices, 14" M1 MBP maxed out, M4 mini, Various iPads, Mini 6,7, iPad Pro M1... iPhone 15Pro...say it's connected...no sound comes out... Kinda... A lot disappointed... I paid less for my XM4's and 5's combined... I've reset them too many times too count... Apple needs to do more than switch from Lightening to USB C before I'd ever consider them again... Talk about a forgotten, if overpriced hit... #BadApple