Don't forget... Windows 10 is still Windows!

[TSE]

I say this because my XPS 15 has been running like absolute trash the past month or two. I don't go around installing utilities, games, and apps that aren't necessary, so I thought there was something wrong with my laptop. It idled at 50 - 60 degrees, and my battery life has been about 3-4 hours instead of the 8-10 I was getting when I first got my laptop, and the fans were always running. It was super, duper annoying.

Well, I decided today was the day. I have the time now, so I was going to wipe my disk and do a fresh install of Windows 10.

But before I did, I decided to install a little utility known as "Autoruns" made by a Microsoft Engineer, and basically it's an easy to use utility that shows EVERY process that is programmed to run automatically, and disables everything except the absolute essentials. The Adobe Suite alone had 6, 6, SIX AUTOUPDATERS running in the background every single second I run my computer, Microsoft Office had 2, nVidia had 4! 4! Those were just the examples off the top of my head, there were so many more. After a few trial and errors and a few reboots discovering that some utilities were actually necessary, I finally got it down to the bare essentials, and guess what! My computer idles at 39 degrees, my estimated battery life is back at 13 hours but realistically will give me 8-10, and it's like an entirely new computer again. This is while running an aggressive undervolt of both my CPU and iGPU with Throttlestop.

I don't want to go through the pain of wiping and reinstalling Windows again as I'm sure a lot of you don't, so I will do this process about once per month to make sure everything is in tip top shape. Just a reminder to you guys that maybe you should consider this, as Windows 10 is still Windows!


Take care!

 

[sracer]

Over time, Windows 10 becomes more sluggish but as you've discovered it isn't Windows itself that is the cause.

One thing that I've seen now that I've included more Windows 10 systems in my arsenal of devices is that Win10 has become quite responsive if basic systems housekeeping is performed.

I do the following as the first thing with every Win 10 system:

• Install all updates
• Use Services to disable unnecessary services like Search Indexer.
• Disable Windows Update service (Windows will periodically re-enable it, and rather than completely lock it down, I simply re-disable it)
• Run a debloater to disable telemetry, Cortana, and remove preloaded junk.

Then I periodically run:

• CCleaner
• Disk Cleaner (built-in Windows tool)
• Delete any downloaded system update files (C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download)

 

[aevan]

Over time, Windows 10 becomes more sluggish but as you've discovered it isn't Windows itself that is the cause.

One thing that I've seen now that I've included more Windows 10 systems in my arsenal of devices is that Win10 has become quite responsive if basic systems housekeeping is performed.

I do the following as the first thing with every Win 10 system:

• Install all updates
• Use Services to disable unnecessary services like Search Indexer.
• Disable Windows Update service (Windows will periodically re-enable it, and rather than completely lock it down, I simply re-disable it)
• Run a debloater to disable telemetry, Cortana, and remove preloaded junk.

Then I periodically run:

• CCleaner
• Disk Cleaner (built-in Windows tool)
• Delete any downloaded system update files (C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download)

This is all good advice, but you shouldn’t need to do all that. I haven’t reinstalled my iMac in years, I didn’t run any cleaner tools/apps, I didn’t disable anything, ran any debloaters or whatever - still works as smooth as the first day I used it. People keep saying Windows is just as good these days - but I don’t see it.

 

[TSE]

Over time, Windows 10 becomes more sluggish but as you've discovered it isn't Windows itself that is the cause.

One thing that I've seen now that I've included more Windows 10 systems in my arsenal of devices is that Win10 has become quite responsive if basic systems housekeeping is performed.

I do the following as the first thing with every Win 10 system:

• Install all updates
• Use Services to disable unnecessary services like Search Indexer.
• Disable Windows Update service (Windows will periodically re-enable it, and rather than completely lock it down, I simply re-disable it)
• Run a debloater to disable telemetry, Cortana, and remove preloaded junk.

Then I periodically run:

• CCleaner
• Disk Cleaner (built-in Windows tool)
• Delete any downloaded system update files (C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download)

All great advice - I'll look into doing some of the others.

These is all good advice, but you shouldn’t need to do all that. I haven’t reinstalled my iMac in years, I didn’t run any cleaner tools/apps, I didn’t disable anything, ran any debloaters or whatever - still works as smooth as the first day I used it. People keep saying Windows is just as good these days - but I don’t see it.

I love Windows 10, and I can't unfortunately run a Mac. But yes, Windows still is Windows!!! Fortunately it's running awesome right now, so I figured out a way to clean it up without a reinstall.

 

[throAU]

My Rules for using windows that have served me well and result in minimal slowdown over time

• if a built in application can do the job - do not install an alternative. e.g., use ms office's built in PDF export instead of adobe. use "send to compressed folder" instead of winzip/winrar/etc. Use the built in Windows firewall, Windows defender, etc. instead of third party trash
• do not install random third party shareware
• do not install any "optional" updater/store software from your motherboard vendor
• leave UAC turned on / do not run as administrator\
• keep at least 20-30% free disk space
• be picky about the hardware you buy. Cheap trash tier hardware ships with cheap trash tier drivers and associated software.

in general, before installing anything ask yourself "do i really need to install this?".

 

[Queen6]

No issues here since dropping the Mac in 2016. Windows is more open and is more reliant on the users decisions. Vast majority of "fixes" are BS and it behoves one to know what's being installed and the implications.

Q-6

 

[throAU]

No issues here since dropping the Mac in 2016. Windows is more open and is more reliant on the users decisions. Vast majority of "fixes" are BS and it behoves one to know what's being installed and the implications.

Q-6

Yeah. The big problem with windows vs. macOS is also its biggest strength - the "open-ness" to third party software. On the plus side, you get more software. On the negative side, a lot of it is garbage, and unfortunately a lot of the garbage is also found in drivers for cheap hardware.

So many Windows stability problems aren't actually Microsoft's fault directly - but caused by absolute total garbage drivers from third parties. I actually feel for microsoft a bit on this, they cop the blame for almost all of it.

Apple isn't totally immune to this, as there's a lot of garbage drivers that have come out of intel in recent years, but in general apple's QA on drivers, and now restrictions via digital signature enforcement on what gets loaded into the kernel definitely help.

 

[Queen6]

These is all good advice, but you shouldn’t need to do all that. I haven’t reinstalled my iMac in years, I didn’t run any cleaner tools/apps, I didn’t disable anything, ran any debloaters or whatever - still works as smooth as the first day I used it. People keep saying Windows is just as good these days - but I don’t see it.

You don't need to, I've Mac's pushing 10 years and then some, last clean installed at the factory. The Windows systems are just the same, only no hand holding. If you don't know what your doing don't blame the provider. As was oft said PEBCAK and still it applies to this day.

Apple is increasingly limiting user control with macOS as it continues to dumb down the OS for it's own purpose. Spot of research a W10 system will have no issues or one can simply close the gate and look forward to IOS driven Mac's...

This Asus has never crashed or been problematic, employed in a professional engineering role for the last two years. If anything my Mac's are now more problematic as Apple has pulled multiple utilities and their only solution is to reinstall the OS, thankfully Terminal still exists. You don't see it as you don't want to, equally the Mac is on borrowed time plain and simple...

Both OS have ther merits, sadily Apple has other designs.

Q-6

 

[throAU]

Apple is increasingly limiting user control with macOS as it continues to dumb down the OS for it's own purpose.

Whilst i see your point of view (with this particular statement), i disagree for the most part.

Microsoft is attempting to do this as well but they don't control enough of the ecosystem to make it feasible.

As to the motivation? Malware is becoming increasingly sophisticated, and relying on even a competent enduser is no longer enough. The days of malware being easily spotted because it is riddled with grammatical problems or just looks "off" are done. WE aren't dealing with kids in their bedroom any more, the malware landscape in 2020 includes professional criminals, multi-billion dollar corporations (Looking at you, zuckerberg!), state sponsored TLAs, and other highly skilled, highly trained adversaries with BIG budgets.

Without more effective OS protections - the average end user hasn't got a chance.

Unfortunately no end user has either the time, skills or most of the time (even if they did) the source code to audit what the code that they are about to run does.

Thus, relying on a "competent end user" to make intelligent/correct decisions about whether or not to install/run/open/otherwise trust something is a losing proposition that will only get less safe as time progresses and malware becomes more advanced.

A chain of trust needs to be established by the OS at or before OS boot, and maintained and unfortunately that means restricting what can run in kernel space (so it is much harder to break), enforcement of sandbox restrictions and being increasingly tight with the issuance of code signatures.

iOS was this way from the start due to the lessons leaned in general purpose computing. macOS is being dragged in that direction over a period of time to limit the fall out and spread it out over years to give software time to be updated and adapt.

As above, microsoft are slowly moving in the same direction but have a tougher job of it as software compatibility (and hardware choice) are the only reasons anyone would choose to run Windows. They tried it with mandatory signed drivers for 64 bit vista and people screamed bloody murder so the restrictions were relaxed. But they are on the same journey make no mistake.

Linux? It's niche enough to not run into these problems to the same degree yet, but once it gets above single digit market share will face exactly the same issues.

 

[Queen6]

Whilst i see your point of view (with this particular statement), i disagree for the most part.

Microsoft is attempting to do this as well but they don't control enough of the ecosystem to make it feasible.

As to the motivation? Malware is becoming increasingly sophisticated, and relying on even a competent enduser is no longer enough. The days of malware being easily spotted because it is riddled with grammatical problems or just looks "off" are done. WE aren't dealing with kids in their bedroom any more, the malware landscape in 2020 includes professional criminals, multi-billion dollar corporations (Looking at you, zuckerberg!), state sponsored TLAs, and other highly skilled, highly trained adversaries with BIG budgets.

Without more effective OS protections - the average end user hasn't got a chance.

Unfortunately no end user has either the time, skills or most of the time (even if they did) the source code to audit what the code that they are about to run does.

Thus, relying on a "competent end user" to make intelligent/correct decisions about whether or not to install/run/open/otherwise trust something is a losing proposition that will only get less safe as time progresses and malware becomes more advanced.

A chain of trust needs to be established by the OS at or before OS boot, and maintained and unfortunately that means restricting what can run in kernel space (so it is much harder to break), enforcement of sandbox restrictions and being increasingly tight with the issuance of code signatures.

iOS was this way from the start due to the lessons leaned in general purpose computing. macOS is being dragged in that direction over a period of time to limit the fall out and spread it out over years to give software time to be updated and adapt.

As above, microsoft are slowly moving in the same direction but have a tougher job of it as software compatibility (and hardware choice) are the only reasons anyone would choose to run Windows. They tried it with mandatory signed drivers for 64 bit vista and people screamed bloody murder so the restrictions were relaxed. But they are on the same journey make no mistake.

Linux? It's niche enough to not run into these problems to the same degree yet, but once it gets above single digit market share will face exactly the same issues.

I don't disagree, just such a shame where the Mac is going, nor do I think it's solely related to user security for one second. Apple wants to design & sell IOS devices as they are more profitable with accompanying services. Bottom line is if the hardware and OS doesn't perform or hinders people will be compelled to switch. Anecdotal it may be, yet observational fact too; 10 years ago majority I knew ran Mac's, 5 years ago still a good percentage, today none run a Mac in a professional role.

My own Mac's; few that are left are either used as HTPC or just for odd OS X fix. Apple has simply dropped the ball too many times of recent to be considered seriously. I wholeheartedly agree on the security side, equally dumbing down the system doesn't help and the hardware should meet expectations, not sales & marketing spiel.

Anyway "no dog in the fight" these days. Bring on the iPads I'll very likely stick with these last few relics until they are done...

Q-6

 

[c0ppo]

Linux? It's niche enough to not run into these problems to the same degree yet, but once it gets above single digit market share will face exactly the same issues.

Now with this statement I do disagree. MacOS and any linux distro are by their design way more secure then Windows.
Linux is an attractive target, since it holds majority on the server market. But it is way more secure then Windows.

If MS ever decides to cut the cord with legacy stuff, they will probably have a great OS on their hands. But until they do just that, Windows is the least secure desktop OS by far.

With world going more and more mobile, MS will have to cut the cord eventually. And I just hope that they do it sooner, rather than later. I'm willing to switch from linux to windows in that scenario, just because I can run native a lot of software that isn't available in linux at all

 

[maflynn]

should consider this, as Windows 10 is still Windows!

In once sense, I see your point but in another, you're complaining about apps that are causing the problems. I mean you're basically blaming MS/Windows for Adobe's sins.

I don't disagree that processes and programs that start on boot up can be a bit much to be sure, but its just as bad in macOS as well. Adobe's does this in macOS as well.

Also keep in mind that AutoRuns just doesn't show you your startup apps, but setting other things, including context menus, services, drivers, etc. So be careful in what you disable. For instance, I see 4 entries for 7-zip. Does that mean 7-zip is bogging down my system? No, it means its setting the context menus

I'm not defending windows, but rather stating that the issues presented are the result of ill behaving or bloated apps that's all. MacOS can and is bogged down by bloated apps as well. I found that the MS Office is a lot worse on macOS then windows, as well as Adobe's apps.

YMMV and I get what you're saying, be mindful of what you install and take a hands on approach to ensure your system is running well

 

[TSE]

In once sense, I see your point but in another, you're complaining about apps that are causing the problems. I mean you're basically blaming MS/Windows for Adobe's sins.

I don't disagree that processes and programs that start on boot up can be a bit much to be sure, but its just as bad in macOS as well. Adobe's does this in macOS as well.

Also keep in mind that AutoRuns just doesn't show you your startup apps, but setting other things, including context menus, services, drivers, etc. So be careful in what you disable. For instance, I see 4 entries for 7-zip. Does that mean 7-zip is bogging down my system? No, it means its setting the context menus
View attachment 904228

I'm not defending windows, but rather stating that the issues presented are the result of ill behaving or bloated apps that's all. MacOS can and is bogged down by bloated apps as well. I found that the MS Office is a lot worse on macOS then windows, as well as Adobe's apps.

YMMV and I get what you're saying, be mindful of what you install and take a hands on approach to ensure your system is running well

I agree with you and think if we were talking about operating Windows in a vacuum. And perhaps I'm not blaming Microsoft, but the Windows experience as a whole.

You can blame the end user, you can blame the third party apps, you can blame any number of things and you would be absolutely correct. Maybe it is a little bit of the end user's fault with not having the knowledge to keep a clean system and run maintenance. Maybe it is a little bit of the third party's fault for creatingnbloat for apps even while they aren't running. And you would absolutely be correct!

The point of this thread wasn't to demonize Microsoft, to say MacOS is better, to say how bad Windows 10 is. I love Windows 10. I use it as my main OS. The point of the thread was just a documentation and publication of my firsthand reminder that the more things change, a lot of the time the more they have stayed the same with Windows. And also as a reminder to all to see if you can gain a little bit of an improved performance and experience by eliminating non-essential processes. MacOS has a lot of things I dislike about it too, but the well-documented (and well-marketed) slowdown and bloat has never been one.

 

[xraydoc]

My two personal Windows 10 systems have thus far been very stable. But like said, I'm careful about what gets installed.

 

[NT1440]

I’m on my third windows reinstall of the week for our remote workers. Windows sometimes just has basic functionality stop working.

 

[keeper]

Hang on, what don’t install this update, guess that’s MAC OS these days.

macOS Catalina 10.15.4 update: Serious problems reported

Misbehaving hard drives, system crashes, data-transfer problems... You might want to wait a while before updating to the latest version of macOS

www.macworld.co.uk

 

[BenTrovato]

Windows 10 runs better for me than MacOS does nowadays and it's actually snappier and more responsive. I do know my way around the os though, cutting out the bloatware and the spyware keeps it humming nicely.

 

[throAU]

Now with this statement I do disagree. MacOS and any linux distro are by their design way more secure then Windows.
Linux is an attractive target, since it holds majority on the server market. But it is way more secure then Windows.

If MS ever decides to cut the cord with legacy stuff, they will probably have a great OS on their hands. But until they do just that, Windows is the least secure desktop OS by far.

With world going more and more mobile, MS will have to cut the cord eventually. And I just hope that they do it sooner, rather than later. I'm willing to switch from linux to windows in that scenario, just because I can run native a lot of software that isn't available in linux at all

i say that as someone who has run and professionally worked with linux since the late 90s.
[automerge]1586296225[/automerge]

Hang on, what don’t install this update, guess that’s MAC OS these days.

macOS Catalina 10.15.4 update: Serious problems reported

Misbehaving hard drives, system crashes, data-transfer problems... You might want to wait a while before updating to the latest version of macOS

www.macworld.co.uk

windows is no better. see windows 1903 release issues. was pulled and delayed for 2 months from memory.

writing and patching modern software is hard

 

[c0ppo]

i say that as someone who has run and professionally worked with linux since the late 90s.

You may have worked since late 90s on it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Some basic security things like file permissions on Windows are done wrong, not to mention that user = administrator by default.

 

[throAU]

You may have worked since late 90s on it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Some basic security things like file permissions on Windows are done wrong, not to mention that user = administrator by default.

the first user created in a linux install is an administrator by default and linux has

less granular file permissions by default - ACLs are still rarely used
no nested groups for ease of permissions delegation
no digital signature checks on executables
more kernel mode drivers so a driver problem is a kernel breach
x11 runs as root, which is nuts

root has more permissions to the machine than administrator does to break stuff in windows

sure a command line only sever install is more secure but to be fair compare that to a no gui windows install.

 

[c0ppo]

less granular file permissions by default - ACLs are still rarely used

no nested groups for ease of permissions delegation

Actually, modern Linux distros support ACL. If someone doesn't use them, it's users choice.
And file permissions on Windows are taken to extreme. On linux they are managed easy, set permissions for owner and groups, and you're done. On Windows every file can have permissions assign to it, for any number of users and groups. Or even to 'Everyone'. But even 'Everyone' has several definitions. Linux introduced SElinux, and it works like a charm for example.

Even Microsoft is using Linux on their Azure platform. I wonder why...

no digital signature checks on executables

Well, what to say here?
In order to get a custom Windows 10 rig up and running, user needs to search the web for drivers, download, install. Then do the same process for installing software.

Signature check on linux for executables isn't needed in linux. Linux uses repositories that are pre checked. To get a custom linux rig up and running, all you need to do is install OS. Let software center do the rest. No need for hunting down and searching the web.

Even MS recognizes that, that is why they are pushing their store so much. But even if that store ever works out, it's far behind linux solution. I can update all of my apps + system updates with 1-2 clicks, or one command in terminal. In Windows it doesn't quite work that way.

 

[maflynn]

Linux? It's niche enough to not run into these problems to the same degree yet, but once it gets above single digit market share will face exactly the same issues.

Linux on the desktop is niche, Linux OS in general (on servers) is not niche. No matter how you slice it both macOS and Linux are more secure. That's not to say that Linux is perfect or never had issues, but windows has more problems that cannot be attributed to its marketshare.

I mean patch Tuesday is probably the shining example of this, we can patches one a month, and more if a zero day is discovered

 

[S.B.G]

I'm going to check out that Autoruns software as I've never heard of that one. Sounds very useful.

I just built a Windows 10 gaming rig the other week which now sits next to my Arch Linux daily driver PC. With the hardware power I built into it, I'm not all that worried about Windows getting sluggish, but at the same time, I don't like the notion of things eating up RAM and CPU cycles needlessly. That's just me being picky (not quite OCD).

With a Ryzen 7 3800x, 32 GB RAM and 1.5 TB of SSD storage and a GeForce RTX 2070, this machine purrs along nicely.

The only stuff I installed is Steam, Origin and the Nvidia Experience along with Firefox. That's really about the biggest applications I put on it.

On my Arch box, I don't worry about anything like I might with my Windows box. I built the hardware and the OS and put all the packages I wanted on it from scratch. I love Linux so much!

But, I'm going to look at the Autoruns software later today for my gaming rig.

 

[maflynn]

But, I'm going to look at the Autoruns software later today for my gaming rig

Its probably not going to be as helpful on your setup simply because you only have a handful of apps running. The OP discovered that he installed and had running a lot of programs. Adobe is a great example of running multiple programs on start up, and setting a service or two.

Windows can be quite configurable, and customizable, and many apps are available to customize your experience, that however can come at a price, for instance. I used to run a phrase expander app, malwarebytes, an uninstaller app (monitoring my installs) and I found my system getting bogged down. When I set up my Razer, I largely chose not to install any of them and my experience has been much better.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

Its probably not going to be as helpful on your setup simply because you only have a handful of apps running. The OP discovered that he installed and had running a lot of programs. Adobe is a great example of running multiple programs on start up, and setting a service or two.

Windows can be quite configurable, and customizable, and many apps are available to customize your experience, that however can come at a price, for instance. I used to run a phrase expander app, malwarebytes, an uninstaller app (monitoring my installs) and I found my system getting bogged down. When I set up my Razer, I largely chose not to install any of them and my experience has been much better.

Do you still have the Lenovo?

Also, what antivirus / antimalware do you use on your machines? Windows Defender Or third party? If third party, which one.