Don't succeed in installing Windows 10 on a friend's 2009 17" MBP...any ideas?

[philgxxd]

I tried so many things....it felt like i'm going from rabbit hole to rabbit hole.
I started with following a guide to modify the Windows7-only Bootcamp assistant from ElCapitan so that it would proceed to partition the hard drive and would at least TRY to make a bootable USB drive from the recent Windows10 2009 build but that failed (supposedly) because of being the install.wim of being more than 4GB.
I messed around with formatting the USB drive as ExFat but that wouldn't be recognised as bootable neither.
I'm having trouble to remember all the things i tried but i remember trying UNetbootin.
I then read a lot about how to make the install.wim file smaller...many ways to archive it. First big rabbit hole.
I tried a solution to create manually a 1GB FAT32 partition and a remaining NTFS partition with the complete content of the .iso file of Windows.
I had to copy certain files to the first FAT32 partition and to create a jumpstarter to the NTFS partition.
That worked and i finally succeeded to boot from the USB drive and the Windows installer initialised but i couldn't install on the partition created with the Bootcamp assistant. That is supposedly because the Bootcamp assistant is creating a hybrid GUID partition table as soon as you partition the drive for Windows and that wouldn't allow the Windows installer to format the Bootcamp partition as NTFS as needed.

I struggle to remember what i did next but i think i followed another guide to manipulate the partition table with gdisk (Opensource utility?) but couldn't get it to work because the SIP were enabled.
The recovery partition were shot on that install so i couldn't find a way to disable it.
I solved that with another guide actually from this forum with updating the recovery partition so i finally could disable SIP and gdisk supposedly fixed the GPT issue.
I then read about that my specific models should boot in legacy BIOS mode to install successfully all the drivers but the USB drive only had the EFI boot so i finally went down a next rabbit hole finding the most recent Windows10 version that would burn onto a single-layer DVD. It turns out the rather recent 2004 build would allow that.
So the DVD route worked right away and i could choose actually between EFI or legacy BOOT from the bootpicker and the Windows installer didn't complain anymore about the Bootcamp partition.The installation finished successfully but a restart doesn't get to a desktop. Bootloop? I don't know!
I then tried to get the verbose mode working but couldn't find the way of doing it. Is it possible (like the old Safe mode key combination at start-up)?

I gave up and wanted to try to start over again but the Bootcamp assistant were kind of stuck so i proceeded to manually merge the Bootcamp partition into the macOS with the DiskUtility but that throw up an error.
I don't know how to go on from now?
I would try to make a backup of the ElCapitan partition and do a completely reinstall with restoring afterwards just to give the Bootcamp assistant another try with a Windows10 iso that will get accepted and create a bootable USB drive...

Should i go that route or try to salvage the mess i left...I have Diskwarrior, would that repair the partition table to start fresh without reinstalling and restoring the ElCapitan install?

 

[eyoungren]

I don't know if this will help you or not, but wayback when I installed Windows 7 on my 17" MBP that is Snow Leopard only. Bootcamp at the time was telling me I couldn't install it.

So, I believe I simply used Disk Utility to create two even partitions, formatted the second partition as NTFS and then booted from the Windows 7 install DVD. I then proceeded from there.

It meant I was entirely on my own in finding drivers for all the Mac stuff so that things would work, but it was pretty easy to track everything down. My one issue was identifying the ethernet drivers. Turned out to be a generic Intel ethernet driver.

I don't know if that helps you or not, probably doesn't, but in deciding to just outright ignore Bootcamp I did okay.

 

[philgxxd]

Thanks @eyoungren !
Tomorrow i will give it another spin.

 

[Applicator]

Have you tried to install a copy of Windows 7 in Bootcamp first, before just upgrading to Windows 10? I think I ran into a similar issue when trying to get some Win10 into my Mac Pro 1,1 / 2/1 system (El Capitan).

 

[Wowfunhappy]

So, I believe I simply used Disk Utility to create two even partitions, formatted the second partition as NTFS and then booted from the Windows 7 install DVD. I then proceeded from there.

I'm a tad surprised that worked, since Macs use EFI rather than BIOS to boot OS's. I don't think Windows 7 would have had EFI support?

 

[Amethyst1]

I'm a tad surprised that worked, since Macs use EFI rather than BIOS to boot OS's. I don't think Windows 7 would have had EFI support?

Windows 7 can boot using the BIOS emulation mode just fine. Like XP does on Intel Macs. And the x64 version does have UEFI support.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Windows 7 can boot using the BIOS emulation mode just fine. Like XP does on Intel Macs.

Oh, I guess Macs select that automatically then! I always thought BIOS emulation was turned on by Bootcamp!

 

[Amethyst1]

I always thought BIOS emulation was turned on by Bootcamp!

Nope. BC doesn't have anything to do with that, it's in the Mac's firmware itself.

 

[repairedCheese]

Windows 7 can boot using the BIOS emulation mode just fine. Like XP does on Intel Macs. And the x64 version does have UEFI support.

Windows 10 can install just fine the same way, too. I've done it on 32-bit hardware and everything.

 

[Amethyst1]

Windows 10 can install just fine the same way, too. I've done it on 32-bit hardware and everything.

Yep. I've ran it on a Pentium M Thinkpad. I was talking about Intel Macs where the BIOS emulation comes into play.

 

[eyoungren]

I'm a tad surprised that worked, since Macs use EFI rather than BIOS to boot OS's. I don't think Windows 7 would have had EFI support?

That was a few years back, so hard to recall. I suppose it might have helped that I didn't know anything. I just knew Bootcamp was objecting so I took matters into my own hands.

That said, I did have to install something later on that allowed me to use the files on that second partition when booted into OS X.

 

[philgxxd]

Thanks to all for the attention.
I didn't try to install Windows 7 and then upgrade yet but i read that it is/was quite common to get the sound, function keys etc. working with the Windows 7 apple drivers under Windows 10.
I have a Windows 7 ultimate DVD but don't have any licence key for it so i guess it would let me finish the install and then plain upgrade to 10?
I think i will prepare tomorrow to backup the osx partition and wipe the drive clean to start over again.

 

[eyoungren]

Thanks to all for the attention.
I didn't try to install Windows 7 and then upgrade yet but i read that it is/was quite common to get the sound, function keys etc. working with the Windows 7 apple drivers under Windows 10.
I have a Windows 7 ultimate DVD but don't have any licence key for it so i guess it would let me finish the install and then plain upgrade to 10?
I think i will prepare tomorrow to backup the osx partition and wipe the drive clean to start over again.

It will want a key to start the install. Plenty of those on the internet.

You'll have 'X' days to activate, so if you upgrade right after that there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[bobesch]

Thanks to all for the attention.
I didn't try to install Windows 7 and then upgrade yet but i read that it is/was quite common to get the sound, function keys etc. working with the Windows 7 apple drivers under Windows 10.
I have a Windows 7 ultimate DVD but don't have any licence key for it so i guess it would let me finish the install and then plain upgrade to 10?
I think i will prepare tomorrow to backup the osx partition and wipe the drive clean to start over again.

I also thought about using an early intel for a Win10 installation.
I would go this way: first install MochavePatch [*], then use BootCamp-Assistant to create a separate partition for a Win7pro-install and then upgrade to Win10pro.

[* ]Everymac.com's information about latest supported versions of OSX and BootCamp/Windows does show for the range of elder MBPs:
latest 2010 C2Duo MBP: OSX 10.11 / Win7
latest 2011 i7 MBP: OSX 10.13 /Win8
2012 i7 pre-retina 15"MBP: OSX 10.15 / Win10
So getting the latest possible macOS running on an early-intel C2Duo might offer the best chance to succeed with supported BootCamp/Win10.

I already succeeded in upgrading virtual Win7pro to Win10pro within VMware Fusion on my early-2008 17"MBP, but resulting VM is only proof-of-concept and to slow for real use - I guess, even if only used as thin client (but I'm gonna move that Win10-VM to my "late" early intel 2012 15" MBP9.1 some day

...)

 

[philgxxd]

Forgot to bring in the Windows 7 DVD...well so i made a backup of the OSX partition and deleted the Windows partition to start fresh.

This time i manually partitioned the drive with a FAT32 partition and booted from the Windows installer DVD.
I installed the 2009 build of Windows 10 from DVD through legacy boot and after install and first boot i only get the mouse cursor when moving a finger on the trackpad and it seems to resets itself in the middle of the screen if you lift your finger and try again.So kinda stuck there.
There are many testimony of people having the same issue but no solution is working for me.
I tried to force that i get the task manager showing while in this state or trying different key combinations at this screen and during boot-up.
Just an update, guess tomorrow i will try the Windows 7...

 

[dextructor]

The last time that I installed an Windows 10 on a MacPro 1.1 a removed the HDD from the mac already partitioned (but I don't remember now if it was GPT or MBR, sorry for that but I don't have this MacPro anymore to help you further) and put in a regular PC (in my case was the ThinkPad T430 because it was an SSD in the caddy after removing the main HDD of the ThinkPad and keeping only the SSD to avoid problems) and installed the fisrt part of the process when the files are copied to the HDD, when it will reboot I turn down the T430 and put the HDD back in the MacPro and the process continues without any problems.

 

[philgxxd]

I ended up installing Windows10 in VirtualBox as im running out of time as my friend needs the computer back.
Will look for optimizations guide for tomorrow, last day because, it is slow (already upped ram and cpu cores used and activated 3d acceleration. A little better...).
Will eventually come back to it trying to resolve the Windows partition but i already spent 4 work days.

 

[bobesch]

I ended up installing Windows10 in VirtualBox as im running out of time as my friend needs the computer back.
Will look for optimizations guide for tomorrow, last day because, it is slow (already upped ram and cpu cores used and activated 3d acceleration. A little better...).
Will eventually come back to it trying to resolve the Windows partition but i already spent 4 work days.

Weekend! Grabbed my spare 2009 15" c2d MBP5,3 for the MojavePatch/Win10 experiement.
Gonna let You know about how things worked out.
Thanks for your inspiration! - The transition of my office-network to all-Win10 is looming (loosing Win-server/terminal-clients option because of now favoring a cheaper Win10pro machine as the server loosing the option of having early intel Macs as fine RDP-Clients) and I would be very happy, if an early intel Mac would cope with the task to fit in.

 

[philgxxd]

Thanks a lot @bobesch.
I tried with the Windows 7 ultimate install and while it was working good with the Bootcamp 4 drivers it wouldn't let me upgrade to Windows 10 because it isn't activated.
I tried many keys from the Web but it wouldn't accept any.
I tried even a guide which said to delete the file which was supposedly responsable holding the key but that made no difference either.
I tried with the 2009 build and the 1703 build and it didn't matter.
I remember installing a third party programm back in the days to hack the activation process but i don't feel comfortable enough anymore doing this and even less on a machine which isn't mine.
So i'm looking forward to hear back from you.

 

[bobesch]

So far no progress on my side ...
Installing MojavePatch without any problem, but I got stuck in the BootCamp-procedure.
Gonna check, how things should be working on my 2012 MBP9,1 as my next step.

 

[dextructor]

Sorry if it's a little late to the party, but I get an A1278 (MacBook Late 2008)( to some testing and with success installed Mojave trought the dosdude1 patch following his instructions thoroughly but I partitioned the disk before formating to APFS, then the free space i left untouched to install Windows 10 2019 LTSC (en_windows_10_enterprise_ltsc_2019_x64_dvd_5795bb03) I like because have much last bloat and will be supported for a long time. Then i try to install without using other computer like my last post. So i used the plpbt-5.0.15.zip then I burned the plpbt.iso to an DVD-rw that i have collecting dust and it booted holding C after the boot sound. Using Rufus Portable I prepared some 8Gb USB flash with the ISO that I mentioned selecting MBR on the Pattition Scheme(it's really important because the plpbt won't boot GPT USB). Then after booting the USB using plpbt the process it's straight foward, just format the other partition, let the installer do it's job and the install will complete in less than 20 minutes (For boot in Windows just hold option after the boot sound). I didn't try to install the BootCamp drivers to help you further. To install VoidLinux was a total different procedure using rEFInd but It's another story.

Hope it help someone

 

[bobesch]

So far no progress on my side ...
Installing MojavePatch without any problem, but I got stuck in the BootCamp-procedure.
Gonna check, how things should be working on my 2012 MBP9,1 as my next step.

Further attempts: erased the SSD to APFS before re-installing MojavePatch. Then ran BootCamp-Assistent to get the drivers for Win10 downloaded. But BootCamp-Assistent again neither let me prepare a separate partition for Win10 nor start the installing process of whatever available Win-installer (I had a Win8-DVD, a Win10Pro Iso and a Win10-USB-bootstick at hands.)
So I saved the Win10 drivers on an USB-stick, used DiskUtility to create a second partition on the disk and booted from my Win8DVD. But Win8-setup wasn't able to make use of the FAT-formatted second partition, even after trials of reformatting etc. - so I dedided to erase the whole drive throught the Win8-Setup and after this I was able to install Win8pro and after that going throught the whole Win8 to Win10 upgrade procedure successfully with even KB and touchpad working (but mouse-pointer a bit laggy).
Then I started the BootCamp-Driver setup.exe but "boom" - after the first trial of rebooting the machine in order to complete installation there's only black screen, maneuverable mouse and the Windows spinning wheel forever ...
Have to figure out now, how and if booting into save-mode does work under these circumstances.

@philgxxd here's about my progress:

Update:
After I managed to boot in save-mode, I finally opted for a full Windows10-reset.
After full-reset, everything (display, audio, keyboard, wifi) except touchpad worked fine, so I had to use a USB-mouse.
I dared to use the BootCamp-Assistant-software from ElCapitan (the latest OSX-version for this C2Duo MBP 2009) for another try. Installation was successful in compatibility mode, but I had to start it twice - first attempt was quitted with an error-message about that version was meant to be used with Win7.
All drivers except the one for the touchpad do work now.
Next step is to use the Mojave-BootCamp-Drivers in order to get the touchpad working ...

Update2:
Installed some of the Mojave BootCamp-Drivers now. Touchpad is back again and settings can be made through the BootCamp-Control-Panel in the TaskBar. This time without freezing the system. But touchpad gestures are not as smooth as within OSX/macOS.
The 15" C2D MBP from 2009 feels now more snappy than my ASUS i5 Notebook from 2012. Great to fit in the coming hardware/software-upgrade in the office as a full Win10pro-client-machine!
Unfortunately I didn't manage to keep Mojave for a dual-boot option - swapping the optical drive for a second harddrive would be an option to circumvent the tricky and picky BootCamp-installation procedure.

 

[bobesch]

So this is cross-linking to postings from the "Operating Systems for Early Intel Macs", where installing Win10 is also in focus ...

Would be cool if we could get some guides on how to get unsupported Windows versions on early Intel Macs. I've tried a few times, but have never been successful.

[...] Windows 10 will basically install without hassle on all Intel Macs. The ones without T1/T2 chips are more or less just PCs. Windows uses a BIOS emulator when running on early Intel Macs, which effectively makes it so we don't have to fiddle with sub-par mess that is EFI.
Apparently some people have issues with the 32bit EFI models, but I only have a couple of those and I haven't really played with them much. I do know it is very possible to run Windows 10 on them. Even Core Duo and Core Solo Macs.

Also, people should know that bootcamp software is highly unnecessary. I personally don't recommend it. Just pop in the install DVD and install like a PC. Drivers are available from the actual device manufacturers, such as Intel or ATI.
Boot camp can be installed for the control panel, and any specialized hardware like some of the trackpads. But most will just work.

However, Windows 10 runs quite well even on the oldest Core Solo Macs. It may be cumbersome to initially get it installed and get the correct drivers from Apple installed, but it opens the door to much more modern software, since both Apple and now Linux seem to have left 32bit behind.

Would be great to have a general discussion about the tricks how to get Windows 10 running on the Early Intels.
Since my experience with BootCamp-Assistant has been rather frustrating - especially because each macOS version is quite picky about what version of Windows is to be installed and because of the automation of creating the additional windows-partition is very often unsuccessful and sometimes prone to cause problems.
In my case I finally succeeded by using the whole drive for my Win10 installation instead of having a dual-boot option ( the latter would also have the benefit of having VMware Fusion being able to make use of the Win10 partition instead of creating a whole new virtual machine).
So it would be great to collect the tricks,
- how to install Win10 on a second partition without using bootcamp
- having a dual-boot option without BootCamp
- collect information and files about which version of the BootCamp drivers fits best to what Early Intel machine.

I'm grateful, that @philgxxd and you other's above took the opportunity to start discussion about Win10 on Early Intels, since I'm facing to loose my Win2008-Server and the option of RDP-sessions with my old Early Intel Macs.
To keep costs low my next file-server in the office will be a pimped up Win10Pro-Workstation and is therefore loosing the option of multiple terminal-client sessions/RDP. So making my currently available Early Intels decent Win10 clients (instead of having to buy a couple new Win10-workstations) would significantly reduce cost and would be a very welcome opportunity.
My current try&error attemps in the end made my 2009 C2DUO MBP a really fine Win10pro workstation and I'm keen to get similar positive results with other Early Intel machines.
Maybe we could bring all important information together in this thread/subforum.
Cheers, Bobesch

 

[bobesch]

[...] but I partitioned the disk before formating to APFS, then the free space i left untouched to install Windows 10 2019 LTSC [...]

Oh, great idea to do partition the disk BEFORE starting to format the disk.
Maybe, that will let Windows-Installation deal properly with it's dedicated partition of the hard disk and enables dual-boot option without using the BootCamp-Assistent.
I really didn't get the clue, when I first read your comment!