Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Doubts and Speculation Surround Apple's Onstage Face ID 'Fail' During iPhone X Keynote [Updated]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
the important difference is this time it did fail, regardless of the strings holding it together. i think we all understand that the truth of something working is an entirely different thing to the impression of it working. and during a product demo of the headline feature impressions are everything.
I'm less worried about their ability to accurately guess one user and more worried about when I go out for lunch or coffee and place the phone on the table. Will my companions or a server lock it to passcode by looking down at the table?
Nope not at all. I usually sleep longer than 8 hours a night. I'd notice if every morning I had to enter a passcode rather than Touch ID
Yeah, this makes sense. On the iPhone with Touch ID pressing the home button is the unlock action so when Touch ID senses your finger on the home button it triggers the biometric authentication process. If authentication fails the first time, you have to lift your finger and place it on the sensor again to restart the process, so the phone has to explicitly request that action from the user to be able to unlock the device. If it fails repeatedly it takes you to the password authentication screen.
Notice that if you put on gloves and press the home button it will not ask you to try again, it goes straight to the password authentication screen, bypassing the whole biometric authentication process because the conditions for a biometric reading are not met.
Now with Face ID the phone is always trying to get a biometric reading, there is no explicit action from the user required to start the process. Your phone unlocks and shows your notifications as soon as it "sees" your face, even before you request the home screen. The authentication status is indicated by a prominent lock icon on the screen, not just by letting you access the home screen.
In this case, biometrics couldn't authenticate Federighi's face, so it went to the password authentication screen after trying to access the home screen twice. When biometrics are disabled under any other circumstances such a device restart or timeout, it takes you to the password authentication screen on the first try.
I think Face ID is pretty cool, I just believe we still need to find out how reliable is this iteration compared to Touch ID.
Last edited:
I think scrapping Touch ID for what is certainly an elaborate and expensive solution like Face ID is a massive blunder.
Especially when one considers Samsung squeezed 3 biometric security measures into the S8 and made probably the most svelte device since the iPhone 4. No notch either.
[doublepost=1505355584][/doublepost]
That’s actually a really good question. How often are the sensors sweeping for a face unlock?
Yeah, I get your snark. What you fail to realize is it sounds logical but in practice, it's annoying.
Ya'll' see.
I don't think this is why their stock tumbled. Will someone tell those guys to go to ToastMasters. My goodness, they didn't learn anything from Steve about how to make a presentation. Nose in the telepromter the entire time, and as a result their words sound like marketing jingles. And when that happens, the stocks are reminded that Steve is not here and the price tumbles. I really don't get it. They need to learn how to make an impassioned presentation.
When I first started using TouchID I thought - ugh this only works half the time, it's a gimmick and I'm going to be punching in my code a lot. Now I think it's one of the best features on the phone and it always works perfectly. I'm quite sceptical about face ID especially at night - it's pretty cool you can just reach out to your phone without looking at it and turn it on your bedside table then ask it the time without looking at it. Presumably you can't do that now. But my guess is Apple wouldn't be stupid enough to bring in a feature that's worse than TouchID - that's not what they do. So it'll be a fun new feature that ends up being indispensable.
I'm the same. Both of my Wife and I can access each other's phones. If we both had iPhone X's (which I'm certainly not planning on doing) then it would actually be quite problematic.
I could not agree more about the quality of the presentation. They were all reading cue cards -- very unimpressive, as it appeared to be an infomercial for long sections.
Craig was the only one that showed a smooth persona -- even though he failed to think on his feet when the authentication failed.
[As opposed to Craig's, Steve's reaction extrapolated from previous faux-pas, would have been on-your-face, with a full technical explanation, demented towards the culprit, and leaving no doubt to Why?]
All others were woody. (Cook is probably the worst.) But all were unconvincing, reading off a teleprompter.
And Eddie Cue looked like a beached whale.
[Yet, it does not matter. They will sell all, even two year-old iPhones (iP6S), still being marketed.]
I was a presentation like a concept sales pitch held by 1st graders at a Business School, text reading out loud without any passion to keep me at the edge of my seat. And I'm really fed up with all those already-dead-one liners like greatest, best ever BS!. Most boring and least inspiring Apple Event I ever watched YTD!
Cheers
Cheers
Why would it be problematic?
[doublepost=1505435772][/doublepost]The touch ID has only been around for 4 years or so. I'm a bit disappointed that Apple appears to be on a path to retiring it already despite how well it works.
"...in different usage situations, with daily changes in your face (stubble, sweat, etc.) and wearing different hats, glasses, etc." All those use-cases will work with Face ID, because it adapts to your changes.
So your Idea would be to just stick to everything we know and just never invent anything else ever again in terms of biomertics? Touch ID under the display is a bad idea for a number of reasons; Why should you ban buttons from your device, only to have them rendered on the screen? Secondly; Touch ID under the display would be less secure than Face ID, because it would have to rely on ultrasound (like the Qualcomm solution). That would easily be spoofed.
[doublepost=1505461000][/doublepost]
It never said that, and as we know, it was because it was set up by someone else than craig and the device tried to authenticate the other person but failed. So it asked for the password.
I never said anything about not adding new tech... I said to add, not replace. And we'll see how well FaceID adapts to changes. I've had a fair amount of experience with facial recognition and that 1:1M thing we heard about, with only 2 tries, is going to mean a LOT more failed attempts that result in the PIN. Personally, I would have preferred they moved the TouchID to the back instead of removing it. Then you'd have the best of both worlds.
Yes, but I assume that not one of those facial recognition technologies were based on what Apple does. Apple's approach is great. I mean support for hats, scarfs, glasses, beards, make up, in the dark, in sunlight, you name it. I don't know why everyone is freaking out? Do you really think Apple would implement something less convienent than Touch ID?
How do you come to this conclusion? If anything 1:1M means that Face ID is MORE accurate than Touch ID which would result in a lower failure rate.
A few months ago when the rumors hit that Touch ID could end up on the back of the device eveyone freaked. So I guess that would have been worse. I personally don't see the worries with it. It reminds me of all complaints when Touch ID launched.
The 1:1M that you cite is the rate for false positives. That doesn't necessarily correlate with lower recognition failure. For all we know, the phone could reject nearly all false positives but also routinely fail to recognize a valid user.
As to whether Apple would implement something less convenient than Touch ID, the answer could be yes. Many people find eliminating the headphone jack in favor of a Lightening-or-wireless-only approach to be far less convenient than allowing all three approaches. Many find power-over-USB-C to be less convenient than MagSafe. And there are other examples. Apple is also rumored to have wanted the iPhone X to have TouchID as well as Face ID, which presumably means they recognized some would prefer TouchID. In short, while Face ID may well turn out to be the best thing ever, not everyone shares your trust in Apple to get this immediately right.
Well, that would mean that Touch ID would even be worse in terms like that. The rate for false positives for Touch ID was 1:50'000. And sure, it will fail constantly. Like everything else Apple did.
yes, that might be true that those changes were not welcome by all. But they have one thing in common; They all did not compromise the security of the device. Apple is establishing itself as the next Blackberry in terms of privacy and security, a not safe solution would be a huge blow to Apple's reputation.
I myself have my doubts on that report. First of all it was from Wall Street Journal. They are not really known for their reliable reports. Secondly, if Apple really ditched Touch ID then they did not do it this year or last year. Apple has worked for 3 years on the A11 according to Phil Schiller. So it is safe to assume that the iPhone X was on the roadmap even before then.
So Apple would not work 3 years on a phone to then compromise on security.
Lastly; Imagine the reviews if Face ID would not work correctly. Apple has seen what damage bad press can do and they are not ready to revisit that sight.
Yes, we don't know everything yet, and there are for sure situations where Face ID will not be ideal, but let's not forget that Touch ID isn't perfect either. My mother could for example never use it as her fingers were very dry from cleaning and cooking (she had my old iPhone 6s so I knew it wasn't the device), gloves are not supported (obviously), and I have many instances where I had wet fingers and could not trigger it. So, yes Touch ID is great but that's about it. Let's not act like it is the best thing ever and nothing can top it.
What I have seen and heard about Face ID really gets me excited. Off-angles, hats, scarfs, glasses, sunglasses, make-up, beards etc. are supported. It's a 3D map of your face and not just some picture and it's still fast. We don't have to hold it in some weird way like other phones and it even works when laying flat on a table next to you. And no, it's not automatically unlocked when it's on the table. Only if you activate the screen and look at it, and if the screen goes out again, it's also locked again.
Last edited:
Like Jobs, he was the real deal, NOT like the current crop at Apple (or MS for that matter).
The current crop at Apple was there when Steve was there soooo....
And yes Steve was great and he advanced Apple and the world so much but we have NO clue on how Apple would look like today. There is no guarantee that Apple would be as big and good as they are now.
We have a 4 month old, and my wife records all the sleep times and feed times so we can better know what's bothering our daughter when she grizzles. My wife has one hand, so sometimes finds it difficult to open her phone while, for example, breast feeding. So I have to open it for her with my own finger print.
You could argue that I could just use the PIN on the iPhone X, but then why would I spend £999 for a step back in technology? Nope.
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/05/19/new-touch-id-rule/
You must be using your passcode at least every 6 days.