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haiggy

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Aug 20, 2003
1,328
76
Ontario, Canada
Infact, not just music but books and movies. You cannot copy a DVD onto your computer you own, the only exception to copying to your computer is with music CDs.

Previously, uploading music, movies, etc and hosting all of it in Canada was illegal. Soon that is about to change, and downloading will also be illegal. Apparently authorities will be going after people although I'm not sure to what degree they will enforce this new law, but you could be fined $500 -- I heard this information from my local news station.

New copyright legislation could be introduced in Canada within the next few weeks, an Industry Canada spokeswoman said.

The new legislation, which is likely to make it illegal to download or share songs on the internet without paying a fee, was promised in the Conservative government's fall throne speech.

"Canada's Copyright Act needs to be reformed to respond to the challenges of the digital age," said Caroline Grondin, an Industry Canada spokeswoman, in a report by Reuters news service.

"New protections proposed for the benefit of rights holders will seek to address online infringement as well as create a legal framework that encourages the rollout, by rights holders, of new business models."

Grondin's remarks appear to indicate a law is coming that would meet the demands of the Canadian Recording Industry Association (CRIA), which has called for tougher laws to make it easier to prosecute people for file-sharing.

Courts in Canada have made rulings that have made it difficult to prosecute individuals over file-sharing.

Copyright legislation needs to be updated to protect musicians and songwriters, said Graham Henderson, president of CRIA.

Full Article:
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2007/11/19/copyright-law.html
 
I think what you meant to say was downloading music off Peer to peer networks unless the music is freeware will soon be illegal.
 
I think what you meant to say was downloading music off Peer to peer networks unless the music is freeware will soon be illegal.

That will be illegal, yes, as well as downloading movies and books, etc. The only exception is importing music CDs which is legal. DVDs it is not.

As I said, it's a big change because it WASN'T illegal to download music off of a P2P network, only to be sharing the files. It was more of an ethics thing, not a law.. until now.

Edit: Oh, I think I see what you mean. My thread title suggests downloading music off of places such as iTunes is illegal... gotcha.
 
That will be illegal, yes, as well as downloading movies and books, etc. The only exception is importing music CDs which is legal. DVDs it is not.

As I said, it's a big change because it WASN'T illegal to download music off of a P2P network, only to be sharing the files. It was more of an ethics thing, not a law.. until now.

Edit: Oh, I think I see what you mean. My thread title suggests downloading music off of places such as iTunes is illegal... gotcha.

no i think he means that this hasn't been enacted yet and still has to pass into law.
 
Well, I'm assuming that it's all been quite illegal for some time, in that it is a violation of international copyright law. You folks are just adding some national laws on top of that that may be enforced a bit more tightly.
 
While I do download music sometimes, I actually think that downloading music like this should be illegal. I'm not going to defend downloading just because I benefited from it.

Downloading has now been taken away from us, but honestly, any loophole that allowed us to download entire albums without payment of some sort should have been patched up ages ago. This was a long time coming.
 
Much better article:


Michael Geist said:
As expected, the Canadian DMCA is big, complicated, and a close model of the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (Industry Canada provides a large number of fact sheets here). I'll have much more to say once I've had a careful read, but these are my five key points to take away:

1. As expected, Prentice has provided a series of attention-grabbing provisions to consumers including time shifting, private copying of music (transferring a song to your iPod), and format shifting (changing format from analog to digital). These are good provisions that did not exist in the delayed December bill. However, check the fine print since the rules are subject to a host of strict limitations and, more importantly, undermined by the digital lock provisions. The effect of the digital lock provisions is to render these rights virtually meaningless in the digital environment because anything that is locked down (ie. copy-controlled CD, no-copy mandate on a digital television broadcast) cannot be copied. As for every day activities like transferring a DVD to your iPod - those are infringing too. Indeed, the law makes it an infringement to circumvent the locks for these purposes.

2. The digital lock provisions are worse than the DMCA. Yes - worse. The law creates a blanket prohibition on circumvention with very limited exceptions and creates a ban against distributing the tools that can be used to circumvent. While Prentice could have adopted a more balanced approach (as New Zealand and Canada's Bill C-60 did), the effect of these provisions will be to make Canadians infringers for a host of activities that are common today including watching out-of-region-coded DVDs, copying and pasting materials from a DRM'd book, or even unlocking a cellphone.

While that is the similar to the U.S. law, the exceptions are worse. The Canadian law includes a few limited exceptions for privacy, encryption research, interoperable computer programs, people with sight disabilities, and security, yet Canadians can't actually use these exceptions since the tools needed to pick the digital lock in order to protect their privacy are banned. In other words, check the fine print again - you can protect your privacy but the tools to do so are now illegal. Dig deeper and it gets worse. Under the U.S. law, there is mandatory review process every three years to identify new exceptions. Under the Canadian law, its up to the government to introduce new exceptions if it thinks it is needed. Overall, these anti-circumvention provisions go far beyond what is needed to comply with the WIPO Internet treaties and represents an astonishing abdication of the principles of copyright balance that have guided Canadian policy for many years.

3. The other headline grabber is the $500 fine for private use infringement. This will be heralded as a reasonable compromise, but check the fine print. Canadian law already allows a court to order damages below $500 per infringement, so the change may not be as dramatic as expected (though $500 in damages is the maximum for private use infringement). Moreover, it is already arguably legal to download sound recordings in Canada. Under the proposal, there are exceptions for uploading or posting music online (ie. making available) and even the suggestion that posting a copyright-protected work to YouTube could result in the larger $20,000 per infringement damage award.

4. The ISP provisions are precisely as expected with a statutory notice-and-notice system. However, check the fine print. The role of the ISP may be undermined by the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, which the government trumpets in its press release.

5. The education community received several provisions that are largely gutted by the fine print. For example, library materials can be distributed in electronic form, but must not extend beyond five days. In other words, it turns librarians into locksmiths. Moreover, there is an Internet exception that educators wanted but it does not apply for any works that are either password protected or include a notification that they cannot be used. In other words, online materials that are available under a Creative Commons license are fair game (as they are already), but most everything else is still potentially subject to a restriction. This was precisely what many feared - rather than pursuing the far superior expansion of fair dealing, the education community got a provision that does little to enhance classroom learning.

I'll have more to say soon, but the takeaway is that the DMCA provisions are worse than the U.S. and the consumer exceptions riddled with limitations as the government promotes a strategy of locking down content and launching lawsuits against Internet users.

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/3025/125/

I don't think it can be overstated just how much I want a working digital distribution system that I can legitimately pay for. I'm a working professional and I view buying music and movies as an important contribution to the artists -- doubly so if it's a Canadian artist.

This isn't a progressive bill that's going to allow artists rights to flourish and encourage the growth of digital distribution. It's nothing short of a hand-out to American interests, and the bill is being fast-tracked through the House of Commons in a dishonest fashion counter to promises made by the Conservative party, and does not include the public-level negotiations Canadians were promised. Meanwhile, the frankly illegal practices of Canadian ISPs that undermines the possibility of a digital distribution system continues to make such systems impossible, without the federal government lifting a finger. The priorities here are clearly not to establish a fair system, but to allow for a US-style bludgeoning of P2P users.
 
This legislation is troubling.

From the Globe & Mail: "What has some critics especially concerned about the bill is that uploaders and anyone caught hacking "digital locks" - such as copy controls or digital rights management (DRM) technology - could face damages of up to $20,000."

I want artists to be compensated for their creations and I can understand an effort to stop piracy but I think this goes too far. My concern is the effect that this is going to have on personal privacy.

Canada is also negotiating an international agreement called Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA). According to Canwest News Service, "The deal would create a international regulator that could turn border guards and other public security personnel into copyright police. The security officials would be charged with checking laptops, iPods and even cellular phones for content that "infringes" on copyright laws, such as ripped CDs and movies.
The guards would also be responsible for determining what is infringing content and what is not."


This goes too far. The government shouldn't have the right to go snooping around on my Macbook just because an industry is desperately trying to protect its dying business model.
 
This legislation is troubling.

From the Globe & Mail: "What has some critics especially concerned about the bill is that uploaders and anyone caught hacking "digital locks" - such as copy controls or digital rights management (DRM) technology - could face damages of up to $20,000."

I want artists to be compensated for their creations and I can understand an effort to stop piracy but I think this goes too far. My concern is the effect that this is going to have on personal privacy.

Canada is also negotiating an international agreement called Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA). According to Canwest News Service, "The deal would create a international regulator that could turn border guards and other public security personnel into copyright police. The security officials would be charged with checking laptops, iPods and even cellular phones for content that "infringes" on copyright laws, such as ripped CDs and movies.
The guards would also be responsible for determining what is infringing content and what is not."


This goes too far. The government shouldn't have the right to go snooping around on my Macbook just because an industry is desperately trying to protect its dying business model.

Wow that's retarded................. hope that doesn't go through at all. If it does, Canada is just super retarded. Someone else gets to determine if all your songs are downloaded and just look around on all of your electronic equipment? No thanks. Also, unlocking phones will be illegal? What? No unlocked iPhones in Canada? WTF are they doing/thinking...

Thanks for the article it was a lot better.
 
It's nothing short of a hand-out to American interests,

Welcome to America.

Linked Article said:
Grondin's remarks appear to indicate a law is coming that would meet the demands of the Canadian Recording Industry Association (CRIA), which has called for tougher laws to make it easier to prosecute people for file-sharing.

Courts in Canada have made rulings that have made it difficult to prosecute individuals over file-sharing.

Copyright legislation needs to be updated to protect musicians and songwriters, said Graham Henderson, president of CRIA.

Or not.
 

This goes a lot further towards protecting American interests than Canadian, as well as this bill's connection to ACTA.

Anti-circumvention laws also makes it illegal for Canadians and Canadian companies to modify, improve, or interact with protected media unless they have permission from US-based manufacturer. This puts the Canadian tech industry at the mercy of the American tech industry. This also means that the above mentioned Canadian film/record/digital entertainment industries are going to have to comply to American standards and employ American-made technologies.

Additionally, the RIAA applauds your country's awful DMCA. Why wouldn't the similar CIRA also want a similar bill? I doubt they care if this caters to American interests as long as they get their piece of the pie.
 
So, if its doing to become illegal to download a song without paying a fee for our Canadian cousins, could you theoreticly get busted and fined for downloading the free single of the week from the itms, or even downloading one of those "pay what you want to (even if its £/$/€00.00) albums a couple of bands have done?
 
This goes a lot further towards protecting American interests than Canadian, as well as this bill's connection to ACTA.

The new laws are being pushed at the behest of the CRIA. Feel free to theorize away, and to look for ghosts in the machine if it makes you happy -- but I don't see how it can get any clearer than that.
 
The new laws are being pushed at the behest of the CRIA. Feel free to theorize away, and to look for ghosts in the machine if it makes you happy -- but I don't see how it can get any clearer than that.

The new law is being pushed in no small part due to intense external pressure from: American lobbies, the MPAA (priority watch list) and RIAA, demands from David 'Horty Port' Wilkins, US Senators, Governor Schwarzenegger (ad nauseam). The bill mirrors the US DMCA in many important ways, and is being pushed through without consultation from Canadian Consumer groups and key Canadian stakeholders. The bill is being tabled by a Canadian political party with a history of strong ties to American industry. There's nothing shocking, conspiratal, or even unusual in my statement that Prentice is acting in no small part due to heavy pressure from the US government and multinational media advocacy groups. "At the behest of the CRIA" is a gross oversimplifaction.
 
Your implication that the CRIA is being manipulated by US interests doesn't wash with me. To accept that I'd have to be convinced that rights-holders interests in protecting their works are somehow inherently different in Canada than they are in the US. Oddly enough, it's always been so easy to point fingers at the RIAA for their role in tightening copyright laws here, but when their analog in the Canada does it, it must be someone else pulling the strings. Doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Your implication that the CRIA is being manipulated

I'm implicating the CRIA is capitalizing on, not being manipulated by, US pressure.

by US interests doesn't wash with me.

Canadian industry and law being effected by powerful US corporate and government interest doesn't wash with you?

To accept that I'd have to be convinced that rights-holders interests in protecting their works are somehow inherently different in Canada than they are in the US. Oddly enough, it's always been so easy to point fingers at the RIAA

I'm not pointing fingers at the RIAA, nor the MPAA, US media advocacy groups, the US government, or for that matter the CRIA. I am squarly pointing my finger at the current Canadian federal government for bowing to said pressures without an honest dialogue with Canadian consumer rights groups, the Songwriters Association of Canada, and a number of Canadian industry leaders and copyright experts.
 
I think you should go back and read the article again, which clearly states that recent court decisions in Canada have made prosecuting rights violators difficult. And again, you haven't shown in any way, shape or form how the interests of Canadian rights holders differ from the interests of American rights holders.
 
Theft is theft, whether or not you are breaking a digital lock and stealing a download or breaking a door lock and stealing a CD. Way to go Canada!
 
And again, you haven't shown in any way, shape or form how the interests of Canadian rights holders differ from the interests of American rights holders.

Nor did I set out to. Keep moving the goalposts, though.

Theft is theft, whether or not you are breaking a digital lock and stealing a download or breaking a door lock and stealing a CD. Way to go Canada!
lol i feel i should have the right to back up dvds and not have my laptop searched if they felt like it

It's not a question of whether P2P file swapping is a form of theft — because it certainly is — it's a question of the rights you have to ownership of digital media once you've purchased it. A balance needs to be struck between consumer rights and creator rights, which is something this bill does not do. Canadian copyright law typically changes once per decade, and thus such a bill needs to be carefully considered with input from all parties.

To quote Michael Geist, this bill does not protect consumer rights because:

the Canadian DMCA erects new barriers for teachers, students, and schools at every level who now face the prospect of infringement claims if they want to teach using digital media.

the Canadian DMCA will render it virtually impossible to protect against the invasion of privacy by digital media companies. The bill includes an exemption for those that circumvent digital locks to protect their privacy, yet renders the tools needed to circumvent illegal. In other words, the bill gives Canadians the right to protect their privacy but prohibits the tools needed to do so.

the Canadian DMCA means that consumers no longer control their own personal property. That CD or DVD or e-book or cellphone you just bought? The bill says you now have the right to engage in "private use copying" but not if it contains digital locks.

the Conservative Party of Canada promised to Stand Up for Canada, yet the Canadian DMCA is quite clearly U.S.-inspired legislation, the result of intense pressure from U.S. officials and lobby groups.

the government pledged to table treaties for House of Commons debate before introducing implementing legislation and failed to do so. Claims that this legislation does not ratify the treaties violates the spirit of that commitment.

ratification of the World Intellectual Property Organization's Internet Treaties can be accomplished in a far more balanced manner.

countries such as New Zealand and Israel have demonstrated that there is no need to blindly follow U.S. demands on the copyright file.

the interests of individual Canadians - including those calling for more flexible fair dealing - is completely ignored.

the Canadian DMCA was introduced without consulting consumer groups, education groups, civil society groups, or the Canadian public.

Jim Prentice knows better. He saw first-hand the passion of Canadians calling for balanced copyright and has received thousands of calls and letters on the issue. Yet rather than genuinely working to craft a balanced solution, he opted to release a fatally flawed bill.

Everybody dropped the ball on file sharing, and it's long past due that creators were duly compensated. But not at the cost of consumer rights.
 
the Canadian DMCA means that consumers no longer control their own personal property

I don't like that one bit. We can't control our own personal property. That's like saying we aren't capable of controlling our own personal property, and then taking control of it.

I could see banning downloading anything and everything but banning something we buy is ruthless.

I could go on forever, but I really don't feel like it.

Although I highly dislike it, its a better then the "we're adding $5 to your internet bill for illegal downloads" thing that they were talking about.
 
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