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The entire idea behind a DSLR is basically obsolete.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.

Mirrorless has a lot of advantages and is the better platform overall, but there are reasons I stuck with a DSLR. The techniques I use work better with an optical viewfinder and because I make heavy use of speedlights for street-style live action shooting, the preview advantages you get with a mirrorless are nullified.

For my purposes, a mirrorless camera is a clumsier camera with worse battery life. I do have a mirrorless as a side camera and I love it, but I don't trust it for any serious work.

I'm an outlier and I get that, but I'm not the only one.
 
The entire idea behind a DSLR is basically obsolete.

SLR (no-D) were a thing because it let you see what you were actually taking a picture of - exactly the framing, and the focus. By seeing exactly what will land on the film, not a viewfinder that is offset not through the same lens.

The move to DSLR early on had similar advantages, combined with the fact that they were just drop-in-replacements for film. In some cases literally - some early DSLRs were just film camera bodies with the back replaced with a digital sensor instead of a film mechanism. And "pro" was firmly established as an SLR thing, so pros moved to DSLRs because they felt the same.

But even early on, there were digital cameras that removed the two key advantages of SLR over other - by using a digital sensor and a large LCD on the back, you could see exactly what was being photographed, exactly as framed, with focus, exposure, everything. But most of those didn't have interchangeable lenses.

Eventually, the idea of "mirrorless" as its own type came about - combining the two. Interchangeable lenses, with a large always-showing display. There you go, no more need for DSLR.

The only reason DSLRs hung on was "pro use inertia." Companies kept putting their best stuff in DSLRs because professionals kept using DSLRs, and insisted on the best stuff. Once companies started putting "the good stuff" in mirrorless - especially once video use took off (something a DSLR can't do well,) mirrorless took over as "the pro cameras."
There were a few non-trivial technical issues that justified DSLRs being around for as long as they were. Image sensor readout speeds meant that mechanical shutters continued to be used to avoid artifacts in image capture—actually, they still are; global shutters are fairly new to the pro/sumer market, and not wholly satisfactory—and you can't just torment those non-stop, so the live preview would still look different from the actual manually-commanded exposure. "Different" usually meant "much, much worse, even for a preview", so what would satisfy customers on a point-and-shoot wouldn't fly when marketed to those who ostensibly cared more about image quality than compactness, inexpensiveness, and ease of use. Electronic viewfinders also lacked the resolution, density, refresh rate, low latency, and dynamic range of a mirror system—in my opinion, the ones below the highest-end cameras still aren't satisfactory. And while it's a more minor annoyance, keeping that big sensor and those displays running takes quite a bit of battery power compared to a passive mirror.

Finally, a DSLR should handle video equally well as an identically specced mirrorless body, since the former simply locks its mirror in the expose position to become—as you point out—essentially a mirrorless camera with some added baggage.
 
Electronic viewfinders also lacked the resolution, density, refresh rate, low latency, and dynamic range of a mirror system—in my opinion, the ones below the highest-end cameras still aren't satisfactory.

EVFs have always bothered me. I always thought I was hung up about the latency or resolution, but after testing a Nikon Z8 and still not feeling comfortable I came to the realization that my real issue was due to the fundamental difference between EVFs and OVFs.

I got disoriented every time the EVF blew out when I raked it across a strong light. One of the best advantages of an EVF actually isn't one for me. Most of the time, I don't want to see a live preview.

I practice an athletic style of photography and move my feet a lot. Being momentarily blinded disrupts my workflow enough that I've decided that I'm just going to stick with a DSLR until I can't anymore.
 
But even early on, there were digital cameras that removed the two key advantages of SLR over other - by using a digital sensor and a large LCD on the back, you could see exactly what was being photographed, exactly as framed, with focus, exposure, everything. But most of those didn't have interchangeable lenses.
Indeed remember the "early" days of DSLRs (up until about 2008 or so) when most of them couldn't even let you use the back screen as a viewfinder. Sure, at that point the screens were so bad you didn't want to, but it took them a while to bring that as a feature.
 
The problem is Z50 II as every mirroless camera feels like it is built cheaply with wobbling display and goofy matte plastic.
I recently purchased a Z50II with 18-140 lens, and put in the context of price, I find the build quality perfectly fine for my needs. Granted, it's no Z8, but I'm not in need of a professional camera.
 
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All this “pro” stuff is a load of crap as far as I am concerned…
Indeed.

However, this is a fascinating thread, informative, and interesting, with a lot of well argued positions, and is a thread where differences of opinion may be heated, yet are treated with respect.
 
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And back to your original question, nowadays no major manufacturers make DSLRs. You can get them second hand but no new cameras so far. They have jumped ship since 2014.
I’m not seeing that. Nikon I would call a major manufacturer, and it continues its DSLRs with at least four models including the flagship D6 for around $6500 in the US. To be sure, Nikon is trending away to mirrorless but the DSLR is still there, still manufactured, still supported, no ship-jumping yet let alone a decade ago.
 
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I’m not seeing that. Nikon I would call a major manufacturer, and it continues its DSLRs with at least four models including the flagship D6 for around $6500 in the US. To be sure, Nikon is trending away to mirrorless but the DSLR is still there, still manufactured, still supported, no ship-jumping yet let alone a decade ago.
The D6 is officially discontinued (I think as of earlier this month). If you choose the translate option in your browser you can read it in English (or your preferred language).

 
Indeed remember the "early" days of DSLRs (up until about 2008 or so) when most of them couldn't even let you use the back screen as a viewfinder. Sure, at that point the screens were so bad you didn't want to, but it took them a while to bring that as a feature
On the other hand, optical viewfinders gave lots of freedom. I almost had never used back screen on my DSLR. Maybe it is more relevant to videographers tho, but for photography OVF and EVF are a must and back screen is nice to have all the parameters at hand like exposure meter readings, shutter speed, ISO, aperture and WB
 
So, I had a Canon 10D. When the wife left with the kids I sold it. I purchased an R50 mirrorless a few months back. Can't get over the small size. Wanted to switch back to DSL and that's when I learned Canon and Nikon are out. Best Buy only selling the T7 mostly for college students.

Is this R50 any good despite its size? I've only used it once so far. Easter.
Canon is still selling the 5D IV.
 
I do expect mILC (mirrorless) cameras to be superior at some point in the future, but as yet lag between the sensor and my eyeball is far too pronounced for me to get much joy from my two “trial” systems (Fuji X100V, Nikon Zf). Your mileage will absolutely vary.

Nikon still sells (its now quite old but still excellent) SLRs: the (DX) D7500, and the (FX) D780, D850, and D6. I hope to pick up a D850 before they’re deprecated/pulled.
 
The entire idea behind a DSLR is basically obsolete.

SLR (no-D) were a thing because it let you see what you were actually taking a picture of - exactly the framing, and the focus. By seeing exactly what will land on the film, not a viewfinder that is offset not through the same lens.

The move to DSLR early on had similar advantages, combined with the fact that they were just drop-in-replacements for film. In some cases literally - some early DSLRs were just film camera bodies with the back replaced with a digital sensor instead of a film mechanism. And "pro" was firmly established as an SLR thing, so pros moved to DSLRs because they felt the same.

But even early on, there were digital cameras that removed the two key advantages of SLR over other - by using a digital sensor and a large LCD on the back, you could see exactly what was being photographed, exactly as framed, with focus, exposure, everything. But most of those didn't have interchangeable lenses.

Eventually, the idea of "mirrorless" as its own type came about - combining the two. Interchangeable lenses, with a large always-showing display. There you go, no more need for DSLR.

The only reason DSLRs hung on was "pro use inertia." Companies kept putting their best stuff in DSLRs because professionals kept using DSLRs, and insisted on the best stuff. Once companies started putting "the good stuff" in mirrorless - especially once video use took off (something a DSLR can't do well,) mirrorless took over as "the pro cameras."
Nope. For my use and enjoyment both, dSLRs remain superior to presently available mILCs. Once the lag between the lens and my eyeball disappears AND display quality becomes indistinguishable from reality, you will be correct. For me…
 
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The only reason DSLRs hung on was "pro use inertia." Companies kept putting their best stuff in DSLRs because professionals kept using DSLRs, and insisted on the best stuff. Once companies started putting "the good stuff" in mirrorless - especially once video use took off (something a DSLR can't do well,) mirrorless took over as "the pro cameras."

I'd argue that in the early days, the technology just wasn't there to make a "reasonably" sized mirrorless camera with a viewfinder that people would actually want to use.

I know that compacts of the early 2000s aren't a great comparison to pro cameras, but the battery life was largely terrible, viewfinders lagged badly, and both the rear screens and the eyelevel screens were low resolution. There were also issues like CCD heating(back when a not insignificant number of pro cameras were still using CCDs)-it was a problem even for live view(enough so that CCD cameras that did offer live view largely could only do it a few seconds at a time or at attrociously low frame rates) and a hot CCD is a noisy CCD.

That's also not to mention that at the time you either had contrast detect or phase detect autofocus, not both, and phase detect was and still is the unquestionable speed king. I'm not sure if anyone had bothered with on-sensor phase detect then, but I'd also guess that when you're dealing with say a 2mp sensor, you really would sacrifice a lot to give up pixels to phase detect. With pixel densities such as they are now, turning some over to phase detect isn't that noticeable most of the time.

Incidentally, though, the Nikon D850 still edges out comparable Nikon and Sony 45mp cameras in absolute sharpness(with the same or comparable lenses) as well as high ISO noise performance. I've not seen a mirrorless camera able to match the high ISO performance of the 20mp sensor Nikon used in the D5/D6. Some of this is splitting hairs, and the number of times where you really NEED 6 digit ISOs for most poeple is going to be pretty limited, but if you're someone who routinely uses them, I've yet to be convinced that there's a better tool for the job than a D5 or D6. I think this is down to two things I've already mentioned-sensor heating and pixels lost to on-sensor phase detect(plus the fact that most people now will turn up their nose at a 20mp sensor in a flagship camera). It's splitting hairs, I know, but when you're amplifying the signal THAT much, the things that are insignificant at more normal ISOs start to become really significant at high ISO.
 
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Incidentally, though, the Nikon D850 still edges out comparable Nikon and Sony 45mp cameras in absolute sharpness(with the same or comparable lenses) as well as high ISO noise performance.
At this point all manufacturers seem to have lost their way and now don’t even know who their target audience is. The truth is, a 14 or 20 mp sensor from 10 years ago will be on par or even better than new 45mp ones. With megapixels one is also increasing the noise floor significantly. Given that in the last 15 years sensor sizes haven’t really moved an inch (same DX, same full frames, same medium formats that cost a fortune etc), one should not expect significant quality increase.

Obviously, more megapixels are what videographers would love since they are all into shooting 4k 120fps. Thanks to new ISPs they would be very capable in this regard. Same with AF speeds, better processors and better AI algorithms help with making focusing faster in new mirrorless cams. New lens designs also help to minimize AF motor noise. But again, are there any new useful features for photographers? Barely few such as wifi or bluetooth-based image sending or even cloud uploading. As for the image quality - same or even sometimes worse and “upscaled”.

I've not seen a mirrorless camera able to match the high ISO performance of the 20mp sensor Nikon used in the D5/D6.
Thanks to less megapixels, there is less noise per each pixel. It has been a thing for ages in any digital camera equipment but nowadays people seem not to see it because of high image noise reduction algorithms.

Some of this is splitting hairs, and the number of times where you really NEED 6 digit ISOs for most poeple is going to be pretty limited
I think ISO values like 102000 or 250000 are more marketing than anything else. Manufacturers love to tout their cameras go to these values and it always looks cringe: they GO but are the results usable? It is like cars with 300km/h speedometers and 1L engines – it wouldn’t even land at 170 before engine blows😆

plus the fact that most people now will turn up their nose at a 20mp sensor in a flagship camera
That’s again is the issue of mass marketing and smartphone manufacturers are ones to blame. And camera makers probably seen “megapixel war” as the ultimate solution to keep manufacturing costs low, recycle old tech and sell it as brand-new “something”. Classic marketing at work
 
As the saying goes the best camera is the one you got with you. In that sense your smartphone probably wins by a country mile. The thing that matters a lot is sensor size for picture quality. I'd say anything from APS-C to bigger makes really great photos. This is where smartphones will usually fall behind and compensate with computation and software. In my opinion smartphones are great too but mostly look good on phone screens. Look more critically on a monitor or even TV and I can easily spot a lot color boosting, oversharpening to my eyes it doesn't look very nice and too artificial. But if your target is mostly for taking photos on the go and like to have eye popping photos that look great on mobile devices and social media then why not.

Quality wise I'd say there's nothing wrong with your camera and can happily compete with any other camera out there. Most companies however have moved on to smaller sizes as mentioned mirrorless has dramatically improved over the years where it can certainly match DSLR in many aspects. Still DSLR do tend to be faster so if you're into fast moving objects you made a great choice DSLR's are hardly outmatched. In my personal experience I would argue that the ability to easily carry a camera easily with you greatly matters in how much you can and will use it, it matters more to me then output quality which honestly does keep getting better. Yet at the same time a good 10 year old DSLR can still take amazing pictures (yes still better than a smartphone). But if you're not bothered by size at all it's a great choice.
 
Thanks to less megapixels, there is less noise per each pixel. It has been a thing for ages in any digital camera equipment but nowadays people seem not to see it because of high image noise reduction algorithms.

No disagreement with this.

Probably the last major advance for noise was BSI sensor technology, which lets the pixels be a tiny bit larger(for a given pixel density) since it cuts out the interconnects between pixels. I seem to remember there being some other advantages that reduce noise.

You'll find this beaten to death on photography forums, but one of the things that is demonstrably true across pretty much all makes is that around about 2008-2010 when 5-digit ISOs became "normal" or "expected", there was also a pretty dramatic shift in color rendition/discrimination. I think Nikon navigated it somewhat more gracefully than Kodak did, but I've done the test shots myself that show that color discrimination is worse between say a Nikon D2X and D3s. Those aren't 1:1 comparable, since the pixel density is MUCH higher on the D2X than the D3s(same resolution, different sensor size) but I find the D2x more or less intolerably noisy past 400, while the D3s is comparable up to 1600, and I still think it looks better at 12,800 than the D2X does at 1600. Probably a more even comparison is to look at the Kodak SLR/n and the D3, especially since both are similar resolution full frame CMOS sensors. I consider 400 a practical limit for the SLR/n(the older DCS 14/n...well don't go over 125 or so) where D3 looks great a LOT higher. At the same time, the SLR/n colors are basically everything Kodak use to know that made their color science the best in the business.

Somehow or another in all of this, too, Nikon managed to pull off some color magic in the D3X. The camera has its issues, and I know it was a joke to a lot of people at the time because of the price and "no one needs 24mp", but the colors really are like nothing else I've ever used(and bear in mind that I tolerate klunky Kodaks just to get the color).

Even though I have...well...way too many cameras, though, if it really got down to it I'd be content with nothing but my D5. I've had the thing 2 years now, and after initially hating the size, after making myself use it for a week or so, I've not put the thing down. It's my default camera 95% of the time, to the point that my D850 has nearly made it to Ebay a handful of times over the past year. I'm not in the market for another camera now(famous last words for anyone who knows me) but I'd be just as likely to buy another D5, or get a D6 while they're still available, than anything else. I do use 2 cameras a LOT, but depending on the situation my second camera is either a D4 or D3x, and the D850-which should fill the "second camera" role for me-is a distant 3rd on the list.
 
For me, 12MP (4032 x 3024) is enough for a smartphone and 24MP (6000 x 4000) is enough for a DSLR or MIL csmera.

I'm currently using a 50mm f/1.8 lens for my Nikon D5500 DSLR camera as the main lens since the stock kit lens of 18-55mm became unusable due to blurred output photos (could be due to fungus or something inside). I'm still trying to get the hang of it since I mostly shoot with either the stock kit lens or the other one which is a 55-300mm f/4.5 to f/5.6 (?)

I wanted to shoot using Huawei P30 Pro some other time but the Leica Standard is a bit reddish or with a magenta shade that does not reflect what is actually seen by the eye although I like its RYYB sensor which can take brighter photos compared to newer model smartphone cameras.

Is the Leica Standard seen on smartphone cameras how the output of photos shot from actual Leica cameras look like? I only owned a Nikon and never used any other brand.
 
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Coming to this thread a bit late, but remembered having seen the news somewhere:


From the article:

"This means that as far as Nikon HQ is concerned, the camera has run its course and no more will be made. However, for now, photographers can still get their hands on a brand-new D6. For example, it is still in stock at B&H and through Nikon USA’s official store. However, once stock runs dry, that’s it, and new models will be gone forever, leaving DSLR-loving photographers to the used market."
 
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As the saying goes the best camera is the one you got with you. In that sense your smartphone probably wins by a country mile.
A very popular saying but one I don’t really agree with. The best camera you have is the correct tool for the job.

If you shoot selfies or post what you had for lunch smartphones are the clear winners.

For me (generally) I’d rather not take a photo without my camera and the correct lens. I just don’t enjoy smartphone photography in the same way.
 
If it weren't for the fact that I can think of MUCH better ways to spend $6500, I'd buy a new D6 while they are still available.

$2K, or probably more like $2500 now, is usually about my go/no go number for a camera body. B&H is currently about double that for used D6s, and KEH doesn't have any at the moment. I'm wondering if the D6 is going to keep up the trend of holding used values like the F6 and FM3a(which were the last of their respective lines) or if it will depreciate like most other F mount equipment has the last few years.

As good as the D6 seems to be, if I were itching to buy a camera now, I'd need to see a really compelling case to choose a D6 over a D5.
 
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