Dutch Regulator Says Apple's Plan for Third-Party In-App Payments is Insufficient, Fines Apple 5 Million Euros

[deeddawg]

Profit: Sure, my mistake. Non native speaker here. 15%: yeah I used that in my previous post, but since that was actually one of the first actions that Apple took because of the growing pressure, I think it’s okay to use 30% especially for brevity’s sake.

Understood. My intent was not to "correct" you but just to add a couple points-of-information for folks reading the thread.

 

[amartinez1660]

People have no clue when they make the "theft" comment.

Consider ebooks sold through Amazon. Amazon currently controls around 80% of the ebook market in the United States. If you price your ebook from $2.99 to $9.99, Amazon takes a 30% commission. If you price your ebook outside of that range, Amazon takes a 65% commission.

So not only does Amazon have a dominant position in the market, they also have the so-called "high rates of commission" and use it for enforcing pricing control.

Yeah, but it isn’t Apple, and it isn’t nice nor trendy nor hip nor cool to hate something else than big bad powerful opresor Apple. /s

“It’s ok if the company company I like (Walmart, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Amazon, etc times 200) charges 30%, 50%, 70% fees of any sort and it’s not theft. It is only those that I don’t like and trendy to hate that is theft” is the motto for these people. It’s all about emotions and not the actual numbers.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Because they don’t own the code developers use. It’s like FORD would try to license the ability to pour in oil to their engine. They can license the design of their engine or how the container is designed, but they can’t license the ability of a third party seller of engine oil to have the ability to use the opening.

You have no ability to pause subscription, you can’t report apps not working, you can’t browse the App Store on the computer anymore. iTunes used to have an actual store section making the ability to find apps easy and convenient on a bigger screen.

Now it’s deprecated and you can only use the iPhone or iPad to do so. iTunes might have been clunky but having the ability to browse the store on your PC or Mac was a good thing when you looked for new apps.

It’s very clunky if I want to look at the best free GPS apps or only the payed versions. Or look up specific categories etc etc. these are clunky if I might want to compare 10 apps as I perhaps plan for a trip and want to find the best GPS app for hiking, best signtseeing app, best translation app or public transport app etc etc.

I become forced to google search list other people already created as on the iPhone you can only look at own app at a time for obvious reasons, on the computer you must know the app to find it as you can’t just browse the store etc.

For example when I want to find Xbox games I browse on my computer or their online store because it’s just clunky on console itself.

u can still browse the App Store for iOS and iPad OS on your Computer. you can do that via 3uTools or iAmazing or what its called. you can stop subscriptions as well there is a section for that in ur profile in the App Store

 

[Sophisticatednut]

u can still browse the App Store for iOS and iPad OS on your Computer. you can do that via 3uTools or iAmazing or what its called. you can stop subscriptions as well there is a section for that in ur profile in the App Store

Thanks for the app, i didn’t know it existed with the ability to browse the App Store.
I used the old iTunes version before they removed the store, but it’s not compatible with iOS 15. Well I mean pause subscription not cancel them.

 

[PC_tech]

It’s all about emotions and not the actual numbers.

How ironic, considering the amount emotional energy spent from certain individuals here defending Apple when the numbers AND facts are against them ???

 

[steveklein]

they can never seem to step up and vote with their wallet purchasing computers/phones/etc from other companies. Have you?

After 2 iPhones I got my first android phone. The getting-acquainted period took a few weeks, and after about six months I got comfortable enough with Android to becone a loyal customer… of Apple!

The benefits of iOS far outweigh the benefits of Android.

In case you’re wondering:

1. iPhone 4S
2. iPhone 6S Plus
3. LG X Charge
4. iPhone XS

(I’m sure I’d have liked Android more if I’d had a high-end phone, but it was the OS, not the hardware, that turned me off.)

 

[vipergts2207]

Yeah, but it isn’t Apple, and it isn’t nice nor trendy nor hip nor cool to hate something else than big bad powerful opresor Apple. /s

“It’s ok if the company company I like (Walmart, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Amazon, etc times 200) charges 30%, 50%, 70% fees of any sort and it’s not theft. It is only those that I don’t like and trendy to hate that is theft” is the motto for these people. It’s all about emotions and not the actual numbers.

First of all, who likes Walmart?? Second, regulators should be looking at the business practices of the three gaming console companies and Amazon (and Google). The narrative that folks are just picking on Apple because they hate them is false.

 

[steveklein]

An infrastructure they have no choice to use since Apple doesn't permit developers to distribute apps using their own or other third party's infrastructure.

Nonsense!

Apple is happy to distribute apps for free so long as their’s no in-app payment.

Netflix, Amazon Kindle, and Prime Cideo are all in the App Store, but none of them use in-app payments.

So they pay Apple nothing, and Apple hosts their apps for free.since Apple still has costs associated with hosting those apps, it’s more correct to say that Apple is subsiding those companies.

Netflix used to have in-app subscription, but they dropped it a couple years back. (Only legacy Netflix subscribers can still pay through Apple.)

And there are app publishers like Disney and Microsoft that allow in-app payments, but don’t require them. You can subscribe to Microsoft Office on their website, then use Word and Excel on your iPhone, iPad, or Mac. Or you can subscribe in-app. Apple only gets a cut of the latter, not the former.

 

[steveklein]

ACM wants Apple to stop abusing its dominant position

Impossible. They don’t have a dominant position, ergo they can’t be abusing it.

Apple’s share of the global smartphone market is about 29%; Android is over 70%.

In the smartphone OS market, Google is the 900 pound gorilla, and Apple is the scrappy underdog.

(I tried checking smartphone OS market share in the Nertherlands; the data was a few years old, but Android still had the largest piece of the pie.)

 

[vipergts2207]

Impossible. They don’t have a dominant position, ergo they can’t be abusing it.

Apple’s share of the global smartphone market is about 29%; Android is over 70%.

In the smartphone OS market, Google is the 900 pound gorilla, and Apple is the scrappy underdog.

(I tried checking smartphone OS market share in the Nertherlands; the data was a few years old, but Android still had the largest piece of the pie.)

Close to even in the Netherlands.

Mobile Operating System Market Share Netherlands | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in Netherlands based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

 

[PC_tech]

Impossible. They don’t have a dominant position, ergo they can’t be abusing it.

Apple’s share of the global smartphone market is about 29%; Android is over 70%.

In the smartphone OS market, Google is the 900 pound gorilla, and Apple is the scrappy underdog.

(I tried checking smartphone OS market share in the Nertherlands; the data was a few years old, but Android still had the largest piece of the pie.)

Yet Apple is under more scrutiny…. Funny that ?

 

[amartinez1660]

First of all, who likes Walmart?? Second, regulators should be looking at the business practices of the three gaming console companies and Amazon (and Google). The narrative that folks are just picking on Apple because they hate them is false.

Walmart: Don’t know, just throwing examples, but maybe all the hundreds of thousands of people that go hourly to their stores and not other stores? If they don’t like it in the full sense are least they prefer it over others.
Picking folks: Agreed, regulators should be looking at all of those. But why the sense the folks hitting on apple narrative? Well, I don’t see all the antitrust cases, Epic-like commercials, movements and all that dance against Amazon’s book fees for naming one. If there are: “I stand corrected. My bad, I’m talking out of my ass. Move on, I’ll move on too”

 

[amartinez1660]

How ironic, considering the amount emotional energy spent from certain individuals here defending Apple when the numbers AND facts are against them ???

The numbers about fees are: “well within the normal fees everywhere else in all business”.
The numbers for developers are also these:

App Revenue Data (2025)

App Revenue Key StatisticsMobile Ad SpendApp and Game RevenuesiOS App and Game RevenueGoogle Play App and Game RevenueGaming App RevenuesiOS Gaming App RevenueGoogle Play Gaming App RevenueApp RevenuesiOS App RevenueGoogle Play App RevenueApp Revenue by RegionSubscription App RevenueiOS...

www.businessofapps.com

If you are any sort of successful enough iOS developer I’ll trade places with you today. I’ll more than gladly free you from that 15% or 30% fee

 

[Philip_S]

And Apple would still be entitled to it's commissions. Any app that is run using ios apis still will have to pay commission.

Cydia apps don’t pay commissions

That's point though: there aren't any barriers to prevent Dutch dating app users from going to the internet version of a service or using an Android phone. The ACM is misrepresenting the market.

Apple didn’t seem to think that web apps could compete

I trust the europeans to ruin it for everyone. Just look at the cookie banners on every site.

Blame lax enforcement and deliberately half-arsed implementations: “reject all non-essential cookies” is supposed to be as easy to choose as accepting any, and you’re supposed to be able to accept those used for particular purposes while rejecting all others, without having to poke around in your browser cookie settings and see what breaks what.

Also, most sites don’t actually need to track users, they just want to, and those sites that do have a genuine (user-serving) need to track don’t need to get permission to track them for that purpose. (Eg login session cookies that are only used to check you’re logged in don’t require a prompt.)

I’m surprised they are able to get so many developers to work with 30% of the cut right off the top.

All walled gardens were charging 30% for access, regardless of what that paid for.

That 30% cut is the STANDARD markup for any retail store. Go to a bookstore, a grocery store... any retail outlet. They purchase at cost, generally add 30% and then sell to consumers. Is that disgusting?

Retail margins are a lot lower.

nope, not at all. 100% of iOS apps don't use any apple Intellectual property whatsoever. they use a list of approved calls they can use that already exist in the OS. if the call dosent exist in the OS then the app cant do it.

It’s a grey area in law whether linking to a library is creating a derivative work of that library. There’s good arguments that it doesn’t, but the whole concept of derivative works has been expanded so far by the courts as a way to protect ideas instead of expression that I wouldn’t want to bet that they won’t rule that it does create a derivative work.

We do, and that’s actually a market that needs regulating since it should be a public utility, not a private for profit business.

It is one that is in many cases operated by private for profit businesses, foreign governments, and other such entities. It should, IMO, be a unified public sector service (and there is no value added by retailers, so there is no reasonable argument for their existence at all), but the European energy market is governed by a non-EU treaty that requires open access.

A. Mobile hardware = effective OS duopoly of Android/iOS

B. Desktop/laptop hardware = effective OS duopoly of Windows/macOS

The desktop/laptop duopoly has a wide variety of stores for consumers to buy apps from, as well as the ability to download apps directly from an individual developers web site. That is being promoted as the better competitive environment, but it doesn't actually provide better prices for software. The mobile OS duopoly has the lowest prices for software,

I’m not entirely convinced that that’s a reasonable comparison, because a lot of apps have reduced feature sets compared to their direct equivalents on desktop platforms, and there’s a lot of “free” apps with in-app purchases to make them worthwhile and cheap apps that are clones of software available for free.

Thin wrappers around web apps to mitigate the nuisance of ordinary web apps on mobile platforms are also pretty common, or ones that provide no extra features but are able to scoop up more private data.