DVI-HDMI output, what "color profile"?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by markusm, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. markusm macrumors newbie

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    #1
    Question:
    I am looking at a color grading work flow for an indie film and I am wondering if anyone has any experience with outputting to a HDTV (1080p) (as a "second reference monitor") straight from a Mac Pro with the 8800 GT card?

    I understand that the monitor resolution will be recognized properly (maybe even refresh rate), but what color profiling is the coming out of the video card for a 1080p setup?

    I am sure I am hoping for too much, but wanted to know before we go down the road of evaluation to buy a MXO (remember, low budget).

    Thanks.

    Markus
     
  2. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #2
    You can't get a good signal straight from a GFX card DVI port. The color space is wrong and the refresh rate of computers doesn't adhere to video standards. Like you said, you need an additional piece of hardware to get a quality video signal out of the machine. If you are going to be using a consumer HDTV you also need gear that will allow to calibrate the TV (w/in the limitations of the TV of course) and I think that kinds of limits your options down to the MX02. You might be able to use the Blackmagic Intensity card but I don't know if it has any calibration type software, and I don't know if it works w/Color (assuming you use Color of course). Not all devices are compatible w/a framerates so that's something you need to keep an eye out for as well.


    Lethal
     
  3. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #3
    The BM Intensity gives you no calibration. I just use it to go to a real broadcast monitor.

    It does work with Color.

    It will work with 60i/p natively, but adds pulldown for 23.98 timelines.

    If you are looking for accurate color, you'll have to go with the MXO2 (for working with an HDTV).
     
  4. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #4
    Yeah, it does seem like a MXO with a computer monitor has a better chance at being successful on a tight budget. It's still quickly $2k.
    Thanks.
     
  5. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #5
    Thanks for filling in the blanks.


    Lethal
     
  6. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #6
    no problem...

    it's a nice little card for monitoring. the component signal looks great on my JVC monitor and it's really helped get all of my projects consistent (in terms of color).
     
  7. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #7
  8. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #8
  9. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #9
    You'd still need something to feed it a proper signal as GFX cards are incapable of doing so.


    Lethal
     
  10. KeithPratt macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    #10
    I've got a DreamColor and to be honest it's a pain in the ass. If you're anything like me you're probably looking at it and thinking, "wow, RGB, YCbCr, 48Hz, 50Hz, 59.94Hz, Rec.601, Rec.709, DCI-P3 emulation — that's all I could ask for and more! It's like Christmas and birthday rolled into one!"

    HP hype it up for film, animation and print work, but what they handily leave out of the promotional literature is that the user-selectable colour spaces are only available if the input is RGB progressive. If you send it a YCbCr interlaced (including PsF) signal from a capture card over HDMI or component it only allows Full Gamut — which makes colours look about eight times as vibrant as they will on a standard HDTV.

    For video work it is useless. An HP rep has been trying to steer complaining owners in the direction of a Gefen HD-SDI to DVI converter, which will turn the YCbCr interlaced signal into RGB progressive. I haven't used one so I can't comment on its efficacy, but it's not cheap and I don't like the sounds of the extra processing Gefen claim it does.

    I'm going to have to look elsewhere for grading the upcoming video projects I have.

    The reason I'm not demanding a refund is that after that I may have a project going out to film/D-Cinema and I'm wondering if the DreamColor will actually be near-perfect for that. And this leads me to a scenario/question for anyone who might be able to help...

    If I use the DreamColor as my second computer monitor and tell Color to display the footage full-screen on it, will the image be the actual footage or will it be a proxy? I'm thinking that if it's the actual footage I can either use it Full Gamut and load a LUT or use the DCI-P3 emulation (and providing the system is registering the correct EDID), and bingo! Does anyone have any clue as whether I'm on the right tracks here?
     
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #11
    The preview window in color is just a proxy image AFAIK.


    Lethal
     
  12. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #12
    I heard.

    I was considering the DCI-P3 approach (full gamut) as well.

    Still investigating then.

    Markus
     
  13. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #13
    Ok, so here's the latest I've thought about.

    I can borrow a friend's old AJA Kona 2 card. I can also get my hands on the new HP DreamColor monitor that has presets for REC 709. The only problem is that I would need to use Component HD signal/cables to hook it up to the monitor. What do you think?

    The only other option is to get the AJA Hi5 converter (HD-SDI to HDMI) and get the better signal out of the Kona 2 card but then live with the translation quirks (not sure what those may be).
    (http://www.ajavideo.com/html/products_converters_HI5.html)


    Follow up question on the Intensity card. Did I understand the color can't be trusted (it's not REC 709) even if you have a broadcast monitor?
    I know the output is 1080i.


    Markus
     
  14. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #14
    So after some additional reading it turns out that I do need a progressive RGB HDMI signal into the DreamColor display for the ColorSpace preset to function.

    There seems to be some confusion to what color space conversion is happening inside the AJA Hi5 converter.

    Markus
     
  15. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #15
    I would just go component out of the Kona card.


    Incorrect, the color is accurate. Hook it up to a broadcast monitor to it and you're good to go.
     
  16. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #16
    Regarding the BM Intensity card, I guess I was thinking that maybe I could use the 720p HDMI signal out of it into the HP DreamColor display using the REC 709 preset.
     
  17. markusm thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #17
    The HP DreamColor display doesn't do color accurate unless it's HDMI (1.3) or through the "DisplayPort". So it's a no go on the Component signal to it.
     

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