DVR / TiVo recommendations?

[Blurb]

It looks as though I hit a nerve with cwerdna. The bottom line is the 2 products are very similar and both very good, but with a few exceptions. That is where it comes down to a matter of opinion! And, that, just like most opinions can be debated ad nauseum.

I know the "thinking for you" on Tivo is a feature that can be used or turned off. But that "feature" is part of Tivo's ability to collect information on your viewing habits. And you CANNOT turn off Tivo's collecting of this information, nor can you prevent the Tivo people from using it the way they want without your permission. And Tivo was not upfront about that issue until confronted with the truth.

As to the going out of business issue, people have been saying that since the very beginning. ReplayTV has, in fact changed ownership/company names a few times, primarily due to the many lawsuits it has had to deal with from the advertising industry trying to put it out of business because of it's prior sw ability to completely skip all comercials, as well as the 30 second "quick skip" button that most use to bypass commercials. But, it is still around and fairly healthy as far as its business is concerned. And the commercial skip feature had to be removed, but the quick skip feature is still with us.

Actually, according to the word on Wall Street, Tivo has been floundering as a business lately, and there's been plenty of discussion about who will buy it and whether it will make it or not!

I was not aware of the limitations of viewing your Tivo programs burned to DVD that Silent Panda posted above. What's the point of even burning them to DVD if you can't watch them when and where you want to??

 

[grapes911]

I was not aware of the limitations of viewing your Tivo programs burned to DVD that Silent Panda posted above. What's the point of even burning them to DVD if you can't watch them when and where you want to??

Sonic Solutions has released an updated version of their MyDVD software that will allow you to burn shows transferred using the TiVoToGo home media feature onto a DVD that can be played on any standard DVD player

From TiVo

 

[mkrishnan]

And the commercial skip feature had to be removed, but the quick skip feature is still with us.

Actually, on my unit, this feature made a come-back on a network upgrade shortly after I got it. Well, I guess it's not the exact same old CA, but besides the quick skip, if I press the right arrow, it does something like a "Chapter: Forward" on a DVD player. Which for most shows is almost always equivalent to skipping the commercial break. It is not 100% reliable, though, and so I actually usually use quick skip. If you use QS on a Replay, and you have ever noticed that sometimes, you hit it, and it does not go forward the full 30 seconds, but the blue icon that shows up on the screen has three vertical bars on it, this is actually an advance point -- had you pressed the right arrow instead of the QS, it would have gone directly to this point. And QS stops there if it finds one within the 30 seconds its trying to advance, so that you don't miss commercials. At least, that's the way mine is.

That and, at least as of a few months ago, TiVo didn't support Wireless G, so sharing between my devices (I didn't want to run Cat5 to my family room) is slower than it could be.

Do you mean it didn't support a USB wireless adaptor? Cuz otherwise, a router is a router, as far as the downstream device is concerned, isn't it?

Anyway, I guess if you have two PVRs, this is a must have. I can stream video wirelessly from my Replay to my iBook / VLC, but to be honest, I have used this about three times ever. I guess one of these days, I might feel like watching TV in bed and use it, though.

 

[superbovine]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/

 

[emw]

Do you mean it didn't support a USB wireless adaptor? Cuz otherwise, a router is a router, as far as the downstream device is concerned, isn't it?

Sorry, yes. I have a G router, but TiVo only supports B USB adapters, dangit.

 

[mkrishnan]

Sorry, yes. I have a G router, but TiVo only supports B USB adapters, dangit.

Can't you use a B adaptor, and have your router operate in mixed B/G mode?

 

[emw]

Can't you use a B adaptor, and have your router operate in mixed B/G mode?

Man, I must have something wrong with me today - my family can't understand me either

Yes, I run in a mixed B/G environment (Airport Extreme on my iMac), with the two TiVo boxes running B adapters. I was (poorly) trying to make the point that since TiVo doesn't support G adapters, the transfer between the two TiVo's seems to be horrendously slow.

Of course, in a someone strange alternative universe thing, when I installed TiVoToGo on my XP PC (which is hard wired), I could copy a file off of my TiVo box (still should max out at wireless B speeds) much faster than copying between TiVo boxes. More errors with dual wireless, perhaps?

It's just that a 1 hour program will generally transfer in about 70 minutes between boxes, and in about 45 to my XP box.

 

[mkrishnan]

It's just that a 1 hour program will generally transfer in about 70 minutes between boxes, and in about 45 to my XP box.

That just ain't right! Poor guy!

 

[Westside guy]

I have two Series 2 Tivos (80gig systems that were $99 after rebate), so I'm paying ~$20 a month for Tivo service. Comcast does offer a DVR, but you have to get their digital cable service to use it - so that plus the $10/month would end up costing more than my Tivos, and with an inferior interface to boot.

Tivo doesn't know how to handle WPA, and apparently has no plans to support it. But I just use a simple USB to Ethernet converter ($15 or so) and hooked it into my Airport Express, which we already were using to stream iTunes to the stereo. Works like a champ.

I really hope they release TivoToGo for the Mac, but I can't say that I'll use it very much. We do have a Windows computer, so I could use it now if I wanted... and I don't.

And in closing - Screw Flanders! Oh, I mean, Tivo rocks!

Edit: For me, using the Airport Express and 802.11g, shows transfer a good 10%-20% faster than real-time (Recorded in "high", not "best", quality)

 

[cwerdna]

It looks as though I hit a nerve with cwerdna. The bottom line is the 2 products are very similar and both very good, but with a few exceptions. That is where it comes down to a matter of opinion! And, that, just like most opinions can be debated ad nauseum.

I know the "thinking for you" on Tivo is a feature that can be used or turned off. But that "feature" is part of Tivo's ability to collect information on your viewing habits. And you CANNOT turn off Tivo's collecting of this information, nor can you prevent the Tivo people from using it the way they want without your permission. And Tivo was not upfront about that issue until confronted with the truth.

As to the going out of business issue, people have been saying that since the very beginning. ReplayTV has, in fact changed ownership/company names a few times, primarily due to the many lawsuits it has had to deal with from the advertising industry trying to put it out of business because of it's prior sw ability to completely skip all comercials, as well as the 30 second "quick skip" button that most use to bypass commercials. But, it is still around and fairly healthy as far as its business is concerned. And the commercial skip feature had to be removed, but the quick skip feature is still with us.

Actually, according to the word on Wall Street, Tivo has been floundering as a business lately, and there's been plenty of discussion about who will buy it and whether it will make it or not!

Tivo's suggestions are a feature. Yes, you can turn them on and off. There's no reason to turn them off. It functions as a free space indicator (since Tivo doesn't have one) and also it's great when it does happen to catch something that you set to record at all or that you didn't know existed that you happen to like (yes this has happened to me many times).

As for Tivo's data collection, they do collect data anonymously including all your buttons presses, season passes, etc. But this data is all aggregated and all identifying info is stripped out. They can only identify you down the zip code unless you specifically opt in. "And you CANNOT turn off Tivo's collecting of this information, nor can you prevent the Tivo people from using it the way they want without your permission" is incorrect. You CAN opt out of the anonymous collection. Read Tivo's privacy policy http://www.tivo.com/5.11.3.asp.

Tivo was pretty up front about all of this the whole time w/their privacy policy. It only gained attention when people raised a stink and it made the press so they had to publish a white paper (esp. to refute some random group's worst case, super paranoid guess as to what evil things Tivo was up to). The topic pops up every now and then esp. around Super Bowl time when Tivo publishes reports [based on 10000 randomly picked anonymous data points] of the what % watched the Super Bowl, most watched ads on the Super Bowl, how many times people used trick play at what point, etc.

ReplayTV did change ownership a few times, one of which was due to Sonicblue's bankruptcy (owner of Replay at the time). They've since been scooped up by D&M.

I personally passed the breakeven point on my SA Tivos LONG ago. The breakeven point is now ~23 months. Yes, I do admit that Tivo's future is a little shaky given that they've STILL never made a profit. But seeing how Replay had a MUCH smalller subscriber base, went bankrupt and someone came around in took over [so that Replay users can still use their units], I wouldn't worry too much about it in Tivo's case. Someone would likely scoop them up in the event the ship sinks.

 

[wPod]

well it sounds like ReplayTV has come out the champ for me. its compatible with mac (in some hacked up way or another) and it can skip comercials (or at least FFW through 30 second chunks) as for cost both are better than comcast, b/c if i have to get digital cable thats like 40 extra dollars a month as opposed to 12.95 for montly Replay or TiVo. and for a $300 lifetime subscription vs 12.95 per month that is about 24 months. So after two years the system will be well worth the investment! so, the next (er final step) is to come up with $150 for the system and $300 for the lifetime subscription. looks like i better start saving!!

 

[grapes911]

well it sounds like ReplayTV has come out the champ for me. its compatible with mac (in some hacked up way or another)

only ReplayTV can do this.

and it can skip comercials (or at least FFW through 30 second chunks)

TiVo does this too.

as for cost both are better than comcast, b/c if i have to get digital cable thats like 40 extra dollars a month as opposed to 12.95 for montly Replay or TiVo. and for a $300 lifetime subscription vs 12.95 per month that is about 24 months.

Tivo has $300 life too.

 

[Westside guy]

So after two years the system will be well worth the investment! so, the next (er final step) is to come up with $150 for the system and $300 for the lifetime subscription. looks like i better start saving!!

Think carefully before you do the lifetime thing, at least if you live in the US. The lifetime subscription is tied to the particular unit, be it Replay or Tivo. Don't forget that, in less than two years (in theory anyway), US TV is supposed to be switching over to high-def.

There most certainly will be converters available for those of us who won't be investing in new equipment right away; but I'm just saying bear that in mind when it comes to making any TV-related purchase decisions.

 

[mkrishnan]

Think carefully before you do the lifetime thing, at least if you live in the US. The lifetime subscription is tied to the particular unit, be it Replay or Tivo. Don't forget that, in less than two years (in theory anyway), US TV is supposed to be switching over to high-def.

There most certainly will be converters available for those of us who won't be investing in new equipment right away; but I'm just saying bear that in mind when it comes to making any TV-related purchase decisions.

LOL, I think the US has been supposed to switch over to high-def within two years for the past eight years at least. But it is a good point. I have heard that even if your PVR breeks down, and you buy a new one, you have to argue with the company (in either case) to get them to transfer your lifetime subscription. I'll have to see if it ends up being a good deal in the long run or not.

 

[emw]

I read that about the subscription being non-transferable. What a crock - especially if you're old one breaks or something.

I went month-to-month instead of lifetime since I wasn't sure if we'd keep it, or TiVo would stay in business, etc. Plus, you don't get a discount on the second box (both $300) like you do with the subscription.

 

[Bozola]

Alternative to TIVO

I have this unit...

No fee. Love it..

http://www.epinions.com/pr-Sony_RDR-HX900_DVD/display_~full_specs

 

[grapes911]

I read that about the subscription being non-transferable. What a crock - especially if you're old one breaks or something.

Straight from the TiVo website:

A product lifetime subscription to the TiVo service covers the life of the TiVo Digital Video Recorder (DVR) you buy--not the life of the subscriber. The product lifetime subscription accompanies the product in case of ownership transfer. The subscription remains in effect if your DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer warranty details). Because a product lifetime subscription is linked to a particular DVR, it cannot be transferred to any other DVR (unless the DVR is replaced due to a malfunction covered by the manufacturer's warranty). Each DVR purchased requires its own service subscription and activation.

Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary among individual products. TiVo makes no representations or warranties as to the expected lifetime of the product aside from the manufacturer's warranty.

 

[grapes911]

I have this unit...

No fee. Love it..

http://www.epinions.com/pr-Sony_RDR-HX900_DVD/display_~full_specs

This has features TiVo doesn't, and TiVo has featues this doesn't, but you are worried about a $300 one-time fee when you paid $550 for one? Seems like it all evens out in the end.

 

[emw]

Straight from the TiVo website:

As long as it's a warranty issue, fine. I just imagine mine getting dropped during a move, or a power surge roasts it, or my kid spills grape juice on it, and that's it. Of course, if that only happens every 2 years or so, I'd be ahead of the game.

There was an interesting article on American's subscription lifestyle in the Chicago Tribune this Sunday, that may be applicable here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/techn...3630690.story?page=2&coll=chi-homepagebiz-utl

(note: you may need free login ID)

 

[Bozola]

Price was not an issue when I bought it. (I had a $240 credit at the store). It was a tough choice, but in the end, the deciding factor was the uncertainty of TiVo, and the DVD burning capability of the Sony.

Note. It burns a 60 min CSI from HD to DVD in 4 mins!!!

Bozola

This has features TiVo doesn't, and TiVo has featues this doesn't, but you are worried about a $300 one-time fee when you paid $550 for one? Seems like it all evens out in the end.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree about life changing. The DVR I have with my cable service right now has totally changed the way I watch TV. (I hate when I am somewhere else and cant hit the pause button!!!)

I know what you mean. In the car with the radio, I want to reach for the rewind button!

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Price was not an issue when I bought it. (I had a $240 credit at the store). It was a tough choice, but in the end, the deciding factor was the uncertainty of TiVo, and the DVD burning capability of the Sony.

Note. It burns a 60 min CSI from HD to DVD in 4 mins!!!

Bozola

Wondering if there are any less expensive alternatives to this Sony?

As I mentioned I have the Cox DVR service. Sweet with the ability to record two shows, while watching a third. They do have a copy to VCR option, but according to their tech support it will not support copying to a DVD.

Even at the $550 for the Sony, I might reconsider the lack of multiple channel recording, since the DVR service with Cox is costing me $20 a month.

 

[mkrishnan]

As long as it's a warranty issue, fine. I just imagine mine getting dropped during a move, or a power surge roasts it, or my kid spills grape juice on it, and that's it. Of course, if that only happens every 2 years or so, I'd be ahead of the game.

Exactly. What I'd like as a standard policy is the ability to transfer from one unit to another. Why not? Wouldn't you consider it insane if iTMS told you that your purchased music was no longer usable because you bought a new Powerbook? Or if Adobe told you that you couldn't use CS2 anymore?

If a person wants to upgrade, even if their unit is not defective, they're putting money in TiVo / Replay's coffers... they should have the option of transferring their subscription.

 

[Bozola]

There were a couple of other units.. Panasonics I think..

Best Buy carries a couple.

Personally, the SONY unit is top notch. (Kinda like the Apple of the bunch!)

email me if you want more details.


Bozola.

Wondering if there are any less expensive alternatives to this Sony?

As I mentioned I have the Cox DVR service. Sweet with the ability to record two shows, while watching a third. They do have a copy to VCR option, but according to their tech support it will not support copying to a DVD.

Even at the $550 for the Sony, I might reconsider the lack of multiple channel recording, since the DVR service with Cox is costing me $20 a month.

 

[cwerdna]

I read that about the subscription being non-transferable. What a crock - especially if you're old one breaks or something.

I went month-to-month instead of lifetime since I wasn't sure if we'd keep it, or TiVo would stay in business, etc. Plus, you don't get a discount on the second box (both $300) like you do with the subscription.

On a Series 2 SA Tivo, there's not much to fail other than the hard drive, which you can easily and cheaply replace. I've had one of my Series 1 Tivos since 2/01, the second since 4/02, and my Series 2 DTivo since 11/04. All are still fine and the original drives in them are still going strong. I got lifetime on both the SAs (can't on the DirecTivo since they got rid of that choice long ago). I passed the breakeven point on the lifetime for both long ago.

If you get Tivos fixed via the factory after the warranty goes (which usually isn't worth it), they can xfer the lifetime sub if it comes to that. Even then, dead Tivos w/lifetime sub have value as some people do fix them.

To the op, before you get a Sony RDR-HX900 any of those non-Tivo DVD recorder units, be sure you get a FULL demo of a Tivo or Replay from an experienced user. The Sony unit above from the review I read has very poor PVR functionality. I'm confident that either a Tivo or Replay will be WAY better in this department.