Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
McDonald's sells the most hamburgers.

The iPhone is also having huge sales, and so is the iPod touch. And so did the iPod Classic, etc. People insist the iPhone is the best phone out there because it it's selling crazy.

Hypocritical recursive logic, huh? Months ago you asked me to show an instance of your hypocritical attitude. Well, there you go.
 
Hey, I'm as big a Apple fan as anyone, but even I gotta take the blinders off sometimes. I think your revision of history might be somewhat...jaded. And let's also not forget, that if not for Microsoft not too long ago, there might not even be an Apple... depending on who's revision of history you subscribe to.

all I'm saying is...sometimes you have to give credit where it's due.

I am happy to give credit where credit is due and I have said before that the Courier looks pretty cool. Problem is, that is just vaporware like everything else they issue as a rebuttal to the threats from competition!

As far as the Microsoft - Apple bail out myth do some more research. Microsoft gave Apple about a BILLION dollars beyond what people commonly report in that deal to settle all litigation from them stealing from Apple. The way people hear about that deal as reporters like to tell was all just a marketing spin.

I am more than open to hear what you would credit Microsoft with though!
 
I did. What I saw was little to choose between them and the fact that Microsoft were smart enough to hook people with a loss leader and won as a consequence. That was judgement, not luck.

Dude, the point is that DR turned up their noses at IBM when they came calling. If they hadn't, MS would never have gotten the opportunity and this would be a different world today.
 
Steve Jobs is a visionary, just like Al Gore who saw we all needed an internet and just went ahead and invented it. ;)
 
Uncle Ballmer is far more fun to make fun of. Can we please get some Ballmer quotes all up in here?

I agree.

As far as the xbox goes, I think in many ways it is like windows, a lot of market share, but the PS3 out does it. Microsoft will always be successful because they provide a low quality cheap product. People would rather buy a new xbox and PC every 3 years than buy a new Mac and Ps3 every 6 years, because its cheaper, they lose a few hundred bucks in the long run, but they cant justify it.

The only thing I think MS really nailed with the Xbox was the exclusives. Halo and Gears almost make an xbox worth buying.
 
The iPhone is also having huge sales, and so is the iPod touch. And so did the iPod Classic, etc. People insist the iPhone is the best phone out there because it it's selling crazy.

Hypocritical recursive logic, huh? Months ago you asked me to show an instance of your hypocritical attitude. Well, there you go.

Bzzzt. Wrong again. Just because the best product doesn't always win doesn't mean it never wins.

Keep watching me closely though. I'm sure you'll find some genuine hypocrisy eventually. :rolleyes:

The only thing I think MS really nailed with the Xbox was the exclusives. Halo and Gears almost make an xbox worth buying.

Microsoft buying Bungie (my ex-favorite Mac game developer): one more reason to despise them.
 
On the subject of CP/M or MS DOS, does anybody know why UNIX was passed over for desktop PCs back then?

UNIX was running on mainframes with more RAM, disk and had networking capabilities. It was also inherently multi-user with users connecting via terminals. It simply wouldn't fit, and probably was written for a different CPU architecture than what was going into desktop PCs (x86).

CP/M and DOS were both written for a single-user, resource-limited environment that UNIX wasn't built for (there is MINIX, but it was more of an environment to teach OS design and development by being bare bones).
 
Steve Jobs is a visionary, just like Al Gore who saw we all needed an internet and just went ahead and invented it. ;)

Ha, ha. There's a lot of truth in this sarcastic statement. Jobs doesn't really design any of these things. He's just a figure head for Apple. Well, not just a figure head, I'm sure he's heavily involved in R&D along the lines of saying yes or no to various ideas. Plus he's Apple's #1 cheerleader extrodinaire and one hell of a keynote speaker. He could sell a flash drive as an MP3 player and everyone would buy it. Oh wait, he did!
 
As far as the Microsoft - Apple bail out myth do some more research. Microsoft gave Apple about a BILLION dollars beyond what people commonly report in that deal to settle all litigation from them stealing from Apple. The way people hear about that deal as reporters like to tell was all just a marketing spin.


umm, when exactly did MS settle for a billion dollars to apple? And what lawsuit exactly was that? Like I said, depending on what revision of history you subscribe to...
 
You wanna know why? I work in the record industry and saw the fast one pulled first hand. Apple basically said that iTunes and the iPod would be limited to the Mac platform. So with that small of a market share, who really cares?

With that much lack of vision, the record industry deserved it.
 
UNIX was running on mainframes with more RAM, disk and had networking capabilities. It was also inherently multi-user with users connecting via terminals. It simply wouldn't fit, and probably was written for a different CPU architecture than what was going into desktop PCs (x86).

CP/M and DOS were both written for a single-user, resource-limited environment that UNIX wasn't built for (there is MINIX, but it was more of an environment to teach OS design and development by being bare bones).

DEC's Microvax cost only 500 dollars more than a pc in those days. When a pc was running msdos a microvax ran VMS which was a very robust OS. If only Ken Olsen could see that people would want to buy PCs and have them in their home. But KO's earlier successful visions failed him here. What might have been.
 
Apple doesn't...

I don't fully understand why Microsoft felt that they were "smoked." They weren't really in the music market at all at the time. Why does Apple and Microsoft feel that they must compete in every field?

Apple doesn't feel the need. It's MS who gets all bent out of shape when anyone finds a market they didn't dominate first. Then they try to crush them. This is the Gates MO, and Ballmer too. Apple is just one of many companies MS wants to crush.

But Apple doesn't even attempt to do everything MS does. Apple doesn't worry about licensing embedded OS versions, or Point of Sale systems, or various other markets MS is in that inflates their Windows "market share." I mean, just about every new cash register in a grocery store in the USA is running windows at this point, as are ATM machines and other devices like that (even if Windows is then buried under a shell), and though Unix may be better for these uses, that's how it is. Apple isn't sitting there fuming over it. They just focus on the CONSUMER, play nice with education and creative content companies, and go about making well thought out products.
 
Apple doesn't feel the need. It's MS who gets all bent out of shape when anyone finds a market they didn't dominate first. Then they try to crush them. This is the Gates MO, and Ballmer too. Apple is just one of many companies MS wants to crush.

But Apple doesn't even attempt to do everything MS does. Apple doesn't worry about licensing embedded OS versions, or Point of Sale systems, or various other markets MS is in that inflates their Windows "market share." I mean, just about every new cash register in a grocery store in the USA is running windows at this point, as are ATM machines and other devices like that (even if Windows is then buried under a shell), and though Unix may be better for these uses, that's how it is. Apple isn't sitting there fuming over it. They just focus on the CONSUMER, play nice with education and creative content companies, and go about making well thought out products.

Well said. They don't have the best customer service and the highest customer satisfaction in the industry for nothing. They're not perfect either, but I digress.

Despite what people say, despite this media-driven backlash against the iPad, despite all odds, Apple will succeed. And in some sad way, this is one of the reasons people hate them. Many people hate others just because they're jealous of their success, or they don't agree with their philosophies, or decisions. If you don't like it, then don't buy. Open your own company and build what you want. I look forward to your future product releases. By the way, this isn't directed toward the person I quoted from. I just got off topic a little, again.
 
A short history - update

I don't fully understand why Microsoft felt that they were "smoked." They weren't really in the music market at all at the time. Why does Apple and Microsoft feel that they must compete in every field?

If this is a serious question, I think I can help you.

The truth is Steve used to like Bill. Maybe he still does. And Bill would love to be as cool [and as smart] as Steve. There's actually a strange, tense kinship there. After all, they grew up together in the industry. But Steve doesn't trust Bill because Steve once made the fatal mistake of trusting him with the GUI knowledge. And in turn, Bill knows Steve is smarter at business than he is. No one does deals like Steve Jobs. No one.

Steve is also a naturally very curious person. He's curious about everything. He's searching for information and opportunities for excellence. Opportunities where something isn't being done very well are prime targets for Steve.

Steve isn't a geek, and this is very much to his advantage in the game he's chosen to play - the game that's made him the most highly respected entrepreneur in the world. But because Steve isn't a geek, he's constantly intrigued by the workings of a geek's mind. Steve knows that geeks come up with ideas - often very good technical ideas, which in turn are often too far ahead of their time to work.

But rarely do these technical ideas come with solutions attached to them. And rarely do geeks return to their potentially best ideas at the very time when they could work. Because geeks are star gazers [and in Bill's case, a star gazer who can't resist talking about his future predictions], they are already dreaming and planning [and talking] about their next batch of premature ideas.

Bill is successful because he did two deals:

June 1981 - Buying the rights for 86-DOS from Rod Brock of Seattle Computer. Total cost: $75,000 - not a bad return on investment!

August 12, 1981 - Awarded IBM contract for PC-DOS on IBM PC.

You can throw in Office and Server in there too.

The trust big corporate buyers placed in Big Blue was based on their experience with mainframes, the might IBM threw at their sales operation, and the simplified solution that MS Windows offered. The reason MS have a virtual monopoly today is based on a combination of laziness on the part of the enterprise market, and Apple's concentration on home and niche buyers, and eventually largely ignoring the low unit profit/high support cost big order end of the business.

And that lead to Bill becoming the richest, [and in many quarters, most despised] man in the world.

So, the answer to your question is that Bill and MS are forever playing catchup, because Bill dreams ideas [before their time] - think tablets [2001], and Steve launches them... 9 years later - when the time is right!

And if that isn't clear, just imagine being Bill, returning home to Melinda and the kids on the evening of 27 Jan 2010, as his wife says: "Honey, didn't you announce a tablet 9 years ago?... And didn't Steve show one just the other day? What's happening there?"

Bill has to compete, because he's still got to prove himself as something more than a one trick pony. He never will of course, but he's got to keep trying. To this end, he's trying to buy a Nobel Prize. I don't wish to diminish the obvious good his money and Melinda are doing, but I personally hope the Norwegians see through his act.

Finally, why the music industry? Because the best entrepreneur in the world had [in April 2003] just demonstrated that it was the game to be in. It's that simple. Bill is only capable of visualising simple linear deals. Apple's deals with the music industry were based on Buddhist thinking, Chinese war craft, and the most Machiavellian of Machiavellian dealing. Remember he duped Wozniak [his best friend] out of $2,200 in the Breakout circuit board deal with Atari. Even if Bill could work something like the iTunes deal out for himself, he couldn't possibly carry it off.

And there's the BIG difference. Bill is about ideas. Steve is about collecting the best ideas, testing them to destruction and making the best ones happen. Bill actually believes he does make things happen. And in a way, he does play a vital part, but he derives absolutely no financial benefit from them, just §h1tloads of abuse and derision!

What we also learn from this is that even the richest man in the world, who can boast that he turned a $75,000 investment in an operating system in 1981 into earnings of $58.437 billion in 2009, has an inadequate self image - just like all the rest of us!

Do I feel sorry for him? Hell no.
 
<snip>
Bill has to compete, because he's still got to prove himself as something more than a one trick pony. He never will of course, but he's got to keep trying. To this end, he's trying to buy a Nobel Prize. I don't wish to diminish the obvious good his money and Melinda are doing, but I personally hope the Norwegians see through his act.
<snip>

Holy cow .. taking about a screwed view on history. You could have actually written that in two lines.
Steve great, does everything right.
Bill, poor chap, two great ideas .. no visions.

I kept the statement above, because I found it the most outrageous. How the hell did you arrive at the conclusion, that the Bill&Melinda Gates Foundation is about buying a Nobel prize?
How about not everybody is a self indulged a$$ and some people actually put their money out there to do good.

How blinded do you need to be to actually take a fantastic good cause and put such a negative spin on it?

T.
 
umm, when exactly did MS settle for a billion dollars to apple? And what lawsuit exactly was that? Like I said, depending on what revision of history you subscribe to...

Here is a good overview of the history.

The fact is that at the time Apple had just reported $1.2 billion in cash. Microsoft's $150 million investment didn't mean much in the survival of Apple.

Also, in re: to the additional payment (described in the above link)
What wasn't widely reported about the July 1997 agreement was the subtle mention of other payments Microsoft agreed to make in addition to investing a paltry $150 million in stock. That amount was never publicly disclosed, but Apple's financial records suggest it was substantial.

In 1999, David Every wrote in an article on Mackido that Microsoft was rumored to have paid Apple between $500 million and $2 billion over several years as part of the deal.
 
I actually think Bill Gates is a cool guy, especially with all the donations he gives out.

It's Steve Balmer who I have actually no respect or appreciation whatsoever. What a maniac.

I completely agree with this!
 
Indeed, before the hatchet man came in (Jobs), Apple was heading right down the MS (and now Google) path. It would have been ugly. Thankfully there was a rebirth, which is exactly what MS needs. Like General Motors, sometimes the king must fall before he can rise again.

Other than Apple at the time or GM at the moment MS is doing great .. coming out strong with Win7 .. no downfall/rebirth in sight.
Just because you do not agree with what they do or how they run their business doesn't mean they are not successful or need to be saved by some savior.

And another more general comment. Mr Gates has resigned from active duty a while ago. MS is run by other people now and apparently very well. A transition that Apple yet has to master with the stock rates fluctuating, when there only reports about Mr Jobs health status.

And I agree, I always found Bill Gates to be extremly nerdy and likable. Something that certainly can not be said about Mr Ballmer, although I am sure he also played his part in getting MS where they are to today, namely on top.

T.
 
Ummm I~m talking about pure profits dunce. You apparently don~t know the difference between revenue and profits. No wonder Apple is failing.

If you think Apple is failing, I'd say you were the dunce who doesn't get it...


As for Gates, as usual he was just focusing on the goal - beating his competitors at something they had already achieved - instead of just making a decent product. Frankly he sounds incompetent.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.